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I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

iproxtaco wrote:

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

From the rest of humanity, plonker.

olympia wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

From the rest of humanity, plonker.

I'm the plonker? Your post did not allude to what your real meaning was, and this doesn't clarify.

Ah I understand now. Yes, it's very similar to the way the British keep the SAS a secret, because it would terrify the public to discover they had incredibly skilled, professional soldiers protecting them.

No, it isn't, and that's not why the British keep The SAS secret. Poor Analogy, is poor.

iproxtaco wrote:No, it isn't, and that's not why the British keep The SAS secret. Poor Analogy, is poor.

The SAS aren't a secret.

It went right over my head, apilogies for the inconweenience.

By the reasoning of some of the pro gk fluff folks, how is the entire Cadian system still manned by plucky Guardsmen these last, oh 8k years?

Those troopers have seen more demons and their princes than the devil itself.

The gk fluff has always been really watery and attempts to make it OTT just detract from what could otherwise be a fun army to field.

By applying simple reasoning to our knowledge of The Grey Knights and The Cadian Gate, the answer should be obvious.
Why would they? Once again, it's not the existence of Daemons they're trying to keep secret, it's the scale of the threat. No other citizens regularly go to The Cadian Gate, not many leave. There are an un-countable number of Cadians. They fight Daemons and Traitors all the time, it's what they're trained for. Why would they be killed in the millions to keep knowledge of a threat secret, that they know about, fight regularly, and are hardened against? Killing un-countable numbers of Cadians all the time would be a stupid move that even The Imperium wouldn't make.

Skiritai wrote:
By the reasoning of some of the pro gk fluff folks, how is the entire Cadian system still manned by plucky Guardsmen these last, oh 8k years?

Those troopers have seen more demons and their princes than the devil itself.

The gk fluff has always been really watery and attempts to make it OTT just detract from what could otherwise be a fun army to field.

Because even Grey Knights know that wiping out the only thing standing between Imperium and Chaos legions is bad thing...
Besides, Cadia was never under demonic incursion, only Chaos Space Marines. Because there is no warp in the Cadian system so the only way for Daemons to assail it is to with ships.

And some things need to stay secret from the general public ( it's not like the CIA is going to say all potencial threats to the USA or how many goverments they bring down...). I am sure that even Cadians are not talking about about what they see to the general Imperium public.

iproxtaco wrote:By applying simple reasoning to our knowledge of The Grey Knights and The Cadian Gate, the answer should be obvious.
Why would they? Once again, it's not the existence of Daemons they're trying to keep secret, it's the scale of the threat. No other citizens regularly go to The Cadian Gate, not many leave. There are an un-countable number of Cadians. They fight Daemons and Traitors all the time, it's what they're trained for. Why would they be killed in the millions to keep knowledge of a threat secret, that they know about, fight regularly, and are hardened against? Killing un-countable numbers of Cadians all the time would be a stupid move that even The Imperium wouldn't make.

Well then, the fact that regular humans can, through training and upbringing, resist chaos right on its own doorstep, should mean that humanity is capable of knowing about the full dangers of the warp without rolling sanity loss. In fact it might cut down on the risk of chaos cults, as the average Joe would know just what was waiting behind the curtains. Also, Cadian guardsmen serve all over the Imperium as far as I can tell. And everyone knows soldiers gossip.

Regular Guardsman: Oh no, terrible things are pouring through that weird portal! What do we do!
Cadian Guardsman: Chill, looks like a stage 4 incursion, nothing major. Eh, nurglings. Stinky but not too bad.
Regular Guardsman: Not too bad?!? DEMONS ARRRGH!
Cadian Guardsman: "Seriously? Get a grip. Taste of lasgun and we'll have them calling uncle soon enough. Mind you we're fethed if he turns up.
Regular Guardsman: We're saved, the marines are here!
Cadian Guardsman: Grey Knights.
Cadian Guardsman: Bugger.

Cadian Guardsman: Nice fighting with you, regular guardsmen, me and my friend will be fine, you, well, you'll see.
I dunno, it's one of the contradictions I mentioned earlier.

Oh sure, Cadia was under demonic incursion plenty of times. In the 13th Black Crusade book for example, It names Erebus as sacrificing millions to create warp storms that ravaged the entire Cadian sector. Several notable warp storms were even named, "Germanicus", "Baphomael" and "Hippocrene". The passage mentioned such storms are commonplace throughout the sector, yet the recent severity was due to Erebus. It also mentioned his storms even attacked the surface of several planets in the sector. Now it did also mention Ordo Malleus "agents" trying to seal up this information on p.52, but nothing much further.

The Eye of Terror codex lists the GK fighting there, although there is no listing of how many mega-billiions of Cadians the chaos GK killed off for hoots

j/k

The GK are secret to stop people rebelling in horror at the measures that the Knights take to destroy the daemons.

I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

If the Chaos Legions were ever destroyed, then the Cadians would be executed.

KingDeath wrote:I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

There is one little problem with that....you can't generate warp field in Cadian system - because of Necron pylons.
Like I said, Daemons can get to Cadia via ships. But they can't summon reinforcements from warp in any way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:If the Chaos Legions were ever destroyed, then the Cadians would be executed.

Good luck with that

Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

There is one little problem with that....you can't generate warp field in Cadian system - because of Necron pylons.
Like I said, Daemons can get to Cadia via ships. But they can't summon reinforcements from warp in any way.

Ah, no. Deamons have been able to tear through the wall in reality even there, mostly through summonings but still.
And the Cadian Necron Pylons aren't active. They're sedate, or dormant, or whatever you want to call it.


Furthermore, people here seem to be forgetting that Cadia is not only a planet, it's an entire sector. There are scores, if not more, worlds around the EoT that make up the Gate of Cadia. Most of these are fortress worlds, but there's no mention of Cadians being 'quarantined' becuase they come into contact with the denziens of the warp.

Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?
And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

That's what I tough, only Cadian system is represents Cadian Gate. But, of course, there are other planet near to them who donate troops and ships to the defense. Like Armageddon is one planet, but Armageddon sector is bunch of planet offering support.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

I meant, when did Daemons attack Cadia in insane numbers, like Armageddon?

Brother Coa wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

That's what I tough, only Cadian system is represents Cadian Gate. But, of course, there are other planet near to them who donate troops and ships to the defense. Like Armageddon is one planet, but Armageddon sector is bunch of planet offering support.

Yep. As I recall, a lot of them are Fortress/Garrison worlds. Mostly reffered to as Kasr "Something".

Emperors Faithful wrote:

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

I meant, when did Daemons attack Cadia in insane numbers, like Armageddon?

On the level of Armageddon? Never as far as I recall. But Armageddon would be the exception, since a Deamon Primarch was present there, nd they rarely walk upon the mortal realm anymore. Deamonic Forces however are present on the attacks on Cadia. In the more recent 13th Crusade there was a instance of Blood Angels accidentally triggering the summoning of a Greater Deamon of Khorne by slaughtering the worshipping cultists.

Maybe the commanders around Cadia tell their men not to blab to the tourists about the giant tentacled monstrosities they fight all the time.

Probably several commisars around to "make sure" there is no one falling for chaos' lies as well.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

Spetulhu wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

What's the purpose of the Gk keeping their identity a secret? It's not like the Deamons don't know that they exist.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

What's the purpose of the Gk keeping their identity a secret? It's not like the Deamons don't know that they exist.

I think it has more to do with the security of Imperium's population. The less people know about real threat that Chaos posses the better. And we all know Human nature, when you hear or see something, you must investigate this to the far limits.

The way I look at it is this:

During a daemonic incursion, you can have millions, if not billions of people exposed to Chaos (and this is just the IG). Of these millions/billions, how many might be tempted to start worshipping Chaos? How long would it take the Inquisition to comb through them? It is more efficient to just, well, kill them all and let the Emperor sort them out.

As to why other daemonic incursions don't experience the cleansing, most likely the Inquistion just sees it as being too late. By the time they get there (or have the forces in place to cleanse the regiments involved) they've already moved to a new battlezone and any troopers tained by chaos may have already gone rogue. The damage would have already been done.

Cadia, being on the front lines, already gets exposed on a regular basis, and probably has the Inquisition all over them already.

and, GKs only tend to show up at the worst possable incursions. the ones where the population is most certaintly tainted.


the ones that regular space marines clear up arn't as big a worry.

I've been following the thread, but just to make this 100% clear... do the GKs purge to hide DEMONS or THEMSELVES? Don't have the codex... so...