Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Last blood angel army i built ran me around $600 for 1850 tourney
(55 Models)
last warmachine army i priced was around $450-500 (2 35 pt lists of same faction to be tourney viable if i chose) (most likely going to buy it also)
(32models)



Old lancer - $17 - New Lancer $19 $2 increase
Old Defender $28 New defender $35 $7 increase
Old Gun mages $28 New gun Mages $35 $7 Increase
Classic Jugger $28 New Jugger $35 $7 increase


i didnt see complaints that Warmachine prices are going up yet tons of rage about GW.

I guess not alot have been playing warmahordes to see the changes..

Spyder68 wrote:

Old lancer - $17 - New Lancer $19 $2 increase
Old Defender $28 New defender $35 $7 increase
Old Gun mages $28 New gun Mages $35 $7 Increase
Classic Jugger $28 New Jugger $35 $7 increase


i didnt see complaints that Warmachine prices are going up yet tons of rage about GW.

I guess not alot have been playing warmahordes to see the changes..

Despite it's growth Warmachine does have a significantly smaller fan base, and therefore fewer people yelling about them on the internet.

Those price increases are all for either new plastic models or re-sculpted metals. It's still a price increase certainly, but it's disguised better.

Also, I think some of the newer unit boxes are cheaper than it would have been to buy the old boxes + blisters. Thralls for instance. I haven't checked that myself though.

plastictrees wrote:This thread is starting to get a little fixated on the cost thing. Maybe we can shift it back to gameplay, talk about the PP tournament and league options,

My first event was 6 games in a starter box nub tournie! I liked it but it was information overload with all the combos. 1/3rd of the participants played the Khador starter though, and I played my own stuff in 2 rounds, which actually made it good to learn! Locally we have a really dedicated fan base, and a great guy who runs events all the time, it's one of the great things abou tit IMO, it's easier to find players than for 40k. Its also easier to transport to events. I haven't played in a sanctioned event yet but I will be in texas in a couple days for the mangled metal tourney at BOls uh... Wargamescon! That should be fun, if similar!

Short version, play in a starter set tourney if you can its fun!

plastictrees wrote:...key purchases (should you buy your factions card deck for instance).

I bought my faction deck immediately so I would have some idea what the units do, and multiple cards in case I lost some. I liked it reading the cards, with the concise rules on them was awesome, I found it very handy for play and well done. It didn't a;lways settle some sequence arguments, but it was so handy I couldn't help but wish they had something similar for in game Warhammer references!

A note: the faction deck is just for things that came out before, you get a card thats new in all the new stuff so... you don't really need to buy a faction deck, now I'm sure the real officianados can correct this but I also believe the faction decks are not 100% inclusive, that some new units do NOT have cards in there, so you are not getting everything. For example the War Engines, like the tank I showed before aren't in there. FYI, if starting new, I might not buy the faction deck again, but i like the reference binder I made!

I feel you on the adjustment pain Augustus. The first few games for me were actually not enjoyable due to looking everything up each turn---then finding out a combo "If I had known about" I certainly wouldn't have walked into.

As I'm getting past those unknowns, I'm starting the enjoy the game more and more. In my example, I blame myself in regards to my comfort zone (I'm very, very rarely surprised to that degree in 40k unless it's a new book/army).

@Plastictrees: The new 10 man squad boxes have significant sticker shock. It was over $80cdn for a box of bane thralls.

Getting back to gameplay though - I'm more willing to pay PP's prices due to the amount of use you can potentially get out of your purchases. Here's an example:

Juggernaut Warjack
+pSorscha = +2" to charge distance, pathfinder, free charge, autohits against targets she knocks down/makes stationary with spells/feat
+eSorscha = same as above, except off her feat, damage dealt is DOUBLED. Can put her warjack bond on it for a 2" auto-stationary zone for anyone ending activation inside it.
+Zerkova = mostly nothing offense wise, but Watcher can potentially give you a lot of free moves with the warjack as long as you don't attack as part of the spell's effect. As a support caster, she often has the resources to max out its focus allocation.
+pButcher = Potential +D6 damage off his feat, free charge and boosted attack rolls from Full Throttle
+pVlad = Potential 13" charge stacking boundless charge and his feat. Signs and Portents provides a small boost to hit and damage.
+pIrusk = Boosts SPD/DEF/MAT and no knockdown!
+Strakov = same as pIrusk, except his feat turns the warjack into a killer bullet. Can also give the Jugger stealth if you wish.
+Karchev = free charges off Karchev's feat, free boosts off his Unearthly Rage spell. Superior charge range (up to +12" threat) using tow and run. No knockdown if Sidearms is cast and in B2B with Karchev.

This is of course with warcasters alone. There is even more crazy stuff that this unit can do combined with other models. The fact that you are not limited to attacking enemy models means you can shoot your own big guy with a blast to peel the infantry off of him. You can fix this bad boy with mechanics midgame.

Sure, a lot of times you may want to go to his big brother Beast 09 due to Beast's extra abilities, and one might think that this makes poor old Juggernaut obsolete - but there are times when his lowish points is more appropriate, especially considering that Beast doesn't hit any harder, nor is he more survivable than his cheaper brother.

This also extends to the infantry. IIRC, Winterguard have a P+S of 8 adding 2D6 vs enemy armor. Nothing to write home about, averaging 19 damage on the charge (+1D6 damage). Using pButcher for example, Orsus can give them +2 damage by casting Fury and then his feat can give them a further damage die. Their character solo can further increase this by +3, making them P+S13 and 4D6 damage on the charge. These interactions can turn a crappy unit into an elite one, and turn an elite unit into OMGWTFBBQ. (Great Bears are weaponmasters, (+1D6 damage) and can make 2 swings, P+S12. They can receive the same +2 damage and +1D6 damage, making them into P+S14+5D6 on the charge and a second swing at P+S14+4D6.)

In 40k, if I buy a Leman Russ tank - I have the choice of secondary weapon loadout on it. Its never going to do something other than try and shoot at an enemy, or maybe drive around tankshocking/ramming stuff - it has no interactions with other models on its own side, other than forcibly blocking LOS. Even a more flexible choice - such as a Tactical Squad is limited to kitting out for Anti-troop/Anti-tank/Mixed weaponry. Its only interaction is with a commander model which modifies its combat-tactics and/or a transport which makes it faster at a fixed rate.

@Plastictrees: The new 10 man squad boxes have significant sticker shock. It was over $80cdn for a box of bane thralls.

To be fair, since you don't need the blisters, the new boxes are actually slightly cheaper than the old ones. Bane Thralls, for example, are $5 less than the old models. As for the plastic heavies, they're slightly more expensive, but the extra bits make magentization really, really easy. Still, YMMV.

As far as cards go, they're pretty optional. Their main purpose is to replace any old MkI cards you may have laying around, and they won't come with the cards of any models that were released after MkII. The faction books and expansions typically make better reference material, although they aren't nearly as portable.

Tarot wrote:To be fair, since you don't need the blisters, the new boxes are actually slightly cheaper than the old ones. Bane Thralls, for example, are $5 less than the old models. As for the plastic heavies, they're slightly more expensive, but the extra bits make magentization really, really easy. Still, YMMV.

While I understand why they went to the 10 man boxes - I actually perfer the 6 man boxes - that way when you buy 2, you have your full squad + 2 min squads. The higher priced 10 man boxes passed my impulse buy threshold.

keezus wrote:
This also extends to the infantry. IIRC, Winterguard have a P+S of 8 adding 2D6 vs enemy armor. Nothing to write home about, averaging 19 damage on the charge (+1D6 damage). Using pButcher for example, Orsus can give them +2 damage by casting Fury and then his feat can give them a further damage die. Their character solo can further increase this by +3, making them P+S13 and 4D6 damage on the charge. These interactions can turn a crappy unit into an elite one, and turn an elite unit into OMGWTFBBQ. (Great Bears are weaponmasters, (+1D6 damage) and can make 2 swings, P+S12. They can receive the same +2 damage and +1D6 damage, making them into P+S14+5D6 on the charge and a second swing at P+S14+4D6.)

The unit/model interactions are great. Winterguard are probably the most extreme example though. Expecting that level of _effective_ interaction from other units and their attachements/solos can leave you disappointed...I'm looking at you Trenchers.

I probably wouldn't recommend the cards to a cash strapped new player unless they were planning to do a lot of proxying. And yes, the cards in the faction decks stop just short of a couple of the newest additions to the faction book, and obviously none of the cards from Wrath. The Cygnar deck doesn't have the storm tower for instance IIRC.

Don't get me started on trenchers.

The biggest issue with Trenchers is that they have feeble stats and pay a premium for situational abilities - 6/10 is way too much for a unit with such terrible stats. Dig in is great, except it is a *action, which means they can't attack or lay smoke and does nothing for the trenchers once they are engaged. Smoke is great, except it too is a *action meaning they can't dig in that turn. The officer somewhat mitigates this problem, but this just makes the overpriced unit more expensive. CRA is great, except the unit is already overpriced and you are now forced to halve your shots to get in hits.

On top of this, you are paying the infamous Cygnar SNIPE tax on them, which factors in the potential benefits of snipe (and to a lesser extent dead-eye) into their cost.

Advance deploy is good and worth paying for. IMHO, for a unit with such puny combat output, IMHO, trenchers should be a 5/8 unit at most - hell Ironfangs and BANE THRALLS are a 5/8 for crying out loud.

Finn's abilities are very good - most of Cygnar's storm knights would kill to get the desparate pace buff, but it is sadly wasted on a unit with aenimic damage output and mediocre UA/WA.

Sword Knights on the other hand...! (Not as great as in MK1, but pretty good for their cost - especially now that Wrath gives them Duke Runewood!)

plastictrees wrote:

Spyder68 wrote:

Old lancer - $17 - New Lancer $19 $2 increase
Old Defender $28 New defender $35 $7 increase
Old Gun mages $28 New gun Mages $35 $7 Increase
Classic Jugger $28 New Jugger $35 $7 increase


i didnt see complaints that Warmachine prices are going up yet tons of rage about GW.

I guess not alot have been playing warmahordes to see the changes..

Despite it's growth Warmachine does have a significantly smaller fan base, and therefore fewer people yelling about them on the internet.

Those price increases are all for either new plastic models or re-sculpted metals. It's still a price increase certainly, but it's disguised better.

Also, I think some of the newer unit boxes are cheaper than it would have been to buy the old boxes + blisters. Thralls for instance. I haven't checked that myself though.

Sadly its the exact same gripes as with the new 40k stuff

Plastic should be cheaper.. etc etc.

just saw a box of Bane Thralls is $80

Spyder68 wrote:Sadly its the exact same gripes as with the new 40k stuff

Plastic should be cheaper.. etc etc.

just saw a box of Bane Thralls is $80

I just noticed that GW seems to be going the other way with their transition to FINECAST(tm)... Instead of putting a full squad in the box and eliminating the blisters... they just eliminate the blisters so you have to buy two boxes to make a full squad.

@ The bane thralls... I totally boggled when I saw that too, but in hindsight, it's of comparable pricing to making a full unit of Sternguards. *ouch* A full squad of Assault Marines comes out to $79 here in Canada. And those are plastic!

I think one of the reasons Bane Thralls are expensive is because they are really popular (and thus easy money for retailers and PP). The popularity of Bane Thralls has become a meme on the Cryx PP forum (“your list needs more Bane Thralls”).

That being said $80 is pretty expensive. What’s really odd though is that I placed an order with Wayland during May for the 2011 resculpt Bane Thralls and they were priced at £37.49 ($47 AUD). That’s almost half the price of what they’re priced now.

You sure you got the resculpts? That's the price of the original six man box, IIRC...

Spyder68 wrote:
i didnt see complaints that Warmachine prices are going up yet tons of rage about GW.

Well, there are plenty of complaints about PP prizes (especially stuff like the Cav like RoS Destors), but they´re not as vocal as the people complaining about GW for one simple reason: With PP the prizes of (some) minis is the only reason to complain for many people for now. GW gave us many other reasons to be pissed which PP did not, so due to residual anger even the complaints about similar problems will be more vocal.

Laughing Man wrote:You sure you got the resculpts? That's the price of the original six man box, IIRC...

Yup as hard as it is to believe, yes I did get the resculpt. The text below was copied directly from my invoice.

Code Description Options Quantity Price Value
PIP34091 Cryx Bane Thralls - 2011 Resculpt 1 £31.49 £31.49

Spyder68 wrote:Old lancer - $17 - New Lancer $19 $2 increase
Old Defender $28 New defender $35 $7 increase
Old Gun mages $28 New gun Mages $35 $7 Increase
Classic Jugger $28 New Jugger $35 $7 increase

Well, the Defender and Juggernaut purchases will both now be the pastic Heavy Warjack kits - meaning that with a few magnets (and some care) you can have a warjack you can use as three different variants (Irnclad/Defender/Cyclone or Jugger/Destroyer/Decimator - there might even be a fourth one for Khador, but I'm not sure as I don't play them).

Augustus wrote:A note: the faction deck is just for things that came out before, you get a card thats new in all the new stuff so... you don't really need to buy a faction deck, now I'm sure the real officianados can correct this but I also believe the faction decks are not 100% inclusive, that some new units do NOT have cards in there, so you are not getting everything. For example the War Engines, like the tank I showed before aren't in there. FYI, if starting new, I might not buy the faction deck again, but i like the reference binder I made!

The faction deck will include anything that came out in Mk1. Anything released for Mk 2 (from the new warjacks in Prime Mk2 onwards) will have the new card included with them, so didn't need including in the deck. In theory, any old boxes/blisters you buy should have been upgraded to Mk2 cards by this point.

Well, the Defender and Juggernaut purchases will both now be the pastic Heavy Warjack kits - meaning that with a few magnets (and some care) you can have a warjack you can use as three different variants (Irnclad/Defender/Cyclone or Jugger/Destroyer/Decimator - there might even be a fourth one for Khador, but I'm not sure as I don't play them).

Yep, the Khador kit has 33% more arms than everyone else. Juggernaut, Demolisher, Destroyer, and Marauder.

Either way..

im restarting a warmachine army while i slowly work on my renegade guard.. (not going to rush FW models)


Khador.. or Cygnar.. hard to choose.