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I think for a lot of people, when they play a game, they want to relax and enjoy themselves. Playing a game of 40k (or whatever their favorite game is) is something they know will be fun, won't stress them out, and they'll know what they're doing. A new game involves learning new rules, learning no tactics, and generally being very actively engaged, with no guarantee of fun at the end.

When you get one or two gaming sessions each week, you want each one to count.

sourclams wrote:

And I know all about positioning models so that effects overlap, I play Dark Elves and usually have the general, battle standard, and Cauldron in three separate places...

There's no comparison between WH and WM/H. There simply isn't.

You're right. From my point of view, there is no comparison at all.

Your position seems to be "I don't know anything about Warmachine, but I'm sure gonna say things as if I do!"

He is strong in his ignorance.

MightyGodzilla wrote:
I figure I'll just by enough of the new system and lend my stuff out demo style. If my friends like it, they'll buy in. Either way I get to play.

This is really the best way to go about it. You're sure to get in at least a few games, and if you've carefully picked a game that might appeal to your friends, you may even get them on board.

Just tonight I agreed to play a naval game with one of my clubmates. I'd never seek out a naval game myself, but he has all the ships painted and ready to go, so why not give it a try?

Vulcan wrote:

Adam LongWalker wrote:

sennacherib wrote:@ Monster rain. I hear you. I have school and 5000$ medical bills for bone grafts i had to have.

you have insurance right?

Spoken like someone with little experience with the American 'system' of health care and health insurance.

It works like this: If you can actually afford the premiums of insurance that will cover that much medical expenses, you can probably afford the medical expenses in the first place.

If you can't afford that sort of premuims... well, my work offers el cheapo insurance that covers $300 worth of doctors visits a year - and that's about it, no hospitalization coverage AT ALL - for about $2600/year ($100 per biweekly paycheck) for a couple. And I'm going to have to take it, because of the 'compromise' Obama accepted with the Republicans, and because the next step up - with hospitalization coverage of $7K a year, which won't even cover a broken ankle - costs twice as much and is well out of my price range.

Whoops, getting well off subject...

sennacherib wrote:I just sold two armies for 40k and about 7 for LotR so i can afford to spend $80 on something new. Have an army sitting around Vulkan.

Four, actually, but I still enjoy playing all of them.

Oh I have insurance, very good insurance. I was hit by a car 9 years ago. 243 grand in medical bills. Seven surgeries on my left side of my body. Most of this was paid for by my insurance, but my out of pocket expense was close to 19 thousand and I been disabled since then.

I even have long term care insurance to take care of me when I will be unable to take care of myself. Would rather die at my work table, doing the hobby I enjoy than to be locked away in a nursing home. Being disabled means that you look at things in a very different perspective, especially when you have had your health taken away from you by another. I was lucky to think ahead in my youth 35 years ago to get the proper insurance to cover me when the unexpected happens.

I made my comment because of aspect of concern for the person the pain of the grafts is bad enough, The lack of insurance plaguing on a person's mind is even worse.

Back on topic. Gamers are gamers and many of their opinions are polarized by their beliefs. I'll go back to parallel arguments and attitude back in the 80's between D&D and Chivalry and Sorcery. C&S was a more sophisticated version of D&D that a lot of SCA'ers in my region at that time, embraced it and considered nothing else was better. And yet D&D was the most popular of the two. Arguments between the factions were pretty heated back then.

To me it is the same thing now. Different kind of a hobby in a different era, but similar arguments. People are going to choose what they want to do for leisure. You might be able to show them different things to do but it is up to them to decide if this game/hobby/sport/etc is for them.

insaniak wrote:The thing is, a lot of people really just aren't interested in playing every game that's released. Or, in a lot of cases, in playing anything other than whichever game they've decided to follow.

That's nothing to do with GW or not. For some, these games are just something to do to while away a few hours... but to others, each new game is a substantial investment in time (to learn the rules and assemble whatever is required to play) and money.

And some are simply happy with what they're playing. Supported or not, if you have a game that you enjoy, there's no particular impetus to go out and try a similar game made by someone else.

insaniak has pretty much hit the nail in the head.

Take... well.. Warmachine's a good example actually. I have no interest in that game. That doesn't mean it's a bad game or that I think it's a bad game, I just have no interest in it. 40K is a bad game - terrible mechanics and rules writers with no clue how to make a balanced game - but I still like it because I like the universe and the models. BattleTech is a great game with 50% ok and 50% laughable models, but I play it because I like the universe and the detail. Warmachine could be the greatest wargame of all time - but I still wouldn't play it because I just have no interest in the universe.

I currently play GW's 40k & WFB, along with PP WMHD. To me that's really enough. I have little interest in expanding further to BFG, LoTR, or Flames of War. I have nothing against any of those systems, however I don't want to have hordes of models. I'm all about people playing whatever they want, but I dislike the attitude that peoples friends "have" to play what they do, or expand simiply because others to.

When push comes to shove, its the individuals wallet, and shelves. If they don't want to spend money out of their wallet to fund a new game system, or put new models on shelves, that should be respected. Otherwise if you really want your friend to try out a new games system. Buy them the demo pack or intro models for a gift if you really want them to play.

I just bought the rules for Uncharted seas, agreed to play in a warhammer fantasy game for the first time so i could learn the rules, and agreed to play with borrowed minis in a Infinity game. There is nothing wrong with trying out something new. Who knows .... it might be better than what your used to.

As for everyone saying they like the fluff etc for 40k. I love 40k but i think the fluff well, the fluff dosnt match the game. A great example is the Nids codex. They loose every time. Thats their fluff. They arrive at a planet, maybe its not garrisoned and they eat the people there. They commander farsight and a 100 battlesuties kick their butt. Hmm. Chaos fluff is really cool. but then on the table chaos just gets hammered. Ultramarines, my favorite marines chapter. If they were only as good as their fluff. Whenever i run Sicarius everyone looks and adjusts their glasses to make sure they are really seeing what i have on the table before them. Honestly most of the fluff besides the stuff concerning the horus hearasy does nothing for me. I dont play the game for the fluff. I do it because i enjoy the models and the game. If all people cared about was the fluff then there are plenty of other games with great fluff that would be kicking butt right now and they arent.

Hi all.
Is everyone aware you can use your existing minatures to try out new (free to down load rules)!

Or is it me, bieng a gamer , so that the game play is what interests me.The background and the minatures are the 'icing on the cake' as it were.
(As opposed to Jervis Johnsons comments about GW core games... )

You try a few out , and find the ones you like...


Assuming that every game HAS to have its own (expensive) minature collections, and HAS to have its own extensive (abstract, overcomplex ) rules, has more to the bad influence of GW plc than ACTUAL contact with multiple game systems.

If you dont like a game you tried out, fair enough.

But flatley refusing to try out new rule sets seem to be denying yourself the chance to find your prefered game.
And I realy can not understand this attitude....

How many competing sports team do you support? There's nothing stopping you from supporting several, but human nature says you tend to pick one per sport.

My answer - it's human nature.

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
Is everyone aware you can use your existing minatures to try out new (free to down load rules)!

Or is it me, bieng a gamer , so that the game play is what interests me.The background and the minatures are the 'icing on the cake' as it were.
(As opposed to Jervis Johnsons comments about GW core games... )

You try a few out , and find the ones you like...

Assuming that every game HAS to have its own (expensive) minature collections, and HAS to have its own extensive (abstract, overcomplex ) rules, has more to the bad influence of GW plc than ACTUAL contact with multiple game systems.

I mostly agree. I enjoy the mostly free and indie rulesets that we play at my club and being able to try out various rulesets has led us to some great games.

My one point of difference is that for me, I really enjoy fluff, but the painted minis are the real reason that I'm in the hobby. I want rulesets that are flexible, simple and fast ways of getting my painted minis of many manufactueres on the table, and there's alot more of that in the indie wargames world than in the mainstream.

CT GAMER wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Please don't do this. Some of us had to work really hard to get the Warmafail kids out of GW, we don't want them back.

Nerd on nerd violence: the plague of wargaming

Shouldn't we all present a united front against the M:TG players?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:How many competing sports team do you support? There's nothing stopping you from supporting several, but human nature says you tend to pick one per sport.

My answer - it's human nature.

This is a bad analogy in my opinion, and would fit better if applied to people that only play one system or company. People playing multiple factions of WFB or 40K as an example.

I play High Elves in WFB, Space Marines in 40K, Menoth in Warmahordes, and thinking about picking up Flames of War. This is the same way I handle my competing sports teams:

Thunder in the NBA, Oklahoma State in College Football, FC Dallas in soccer, and Red Bull Racing in Formula 1. I would bet that you will find more people that have a favorite team in multiple leages than people who only support one league.

Yeah... i usually dont pay any attention to who is winning or loosing in sports. And when i do i usually root for the underdog. Lots of food for thought here. when i started this thread i was genuinely annoyed by my freinds attitude. Weather its because of blind brand loyalty, desire not to spend any more money on a different hobby or the desire not to learn something new etc., I still hope to be able to enlist him to play something different that is also fun. The fact that he is only really playing MTG now because he is bored with 40k and unwilling to try anything new is immaterial. Other people are willing to play and try new things.

I do feel that promoting new games that are fun to help people break out of their one sided GW only mindset will be healthy for all gaming in the end though. IF it means that other smaller less well known game companies can get a foothold on the gameing scene, the competition will help force GW to eiither make their games more accessible (cheaper), more fun (better rules) or at least improve GW public relations ( faster FAQ, better playtesting so we will have to deal with less broken and poorly written codex etc.) Its never good when one company has a monopoly on a part of the market. Diversity in biological as well as commercial systems is always a good thing.

Lanrak wrote:But flatley refusing to try out new rule sets seem to be denying yourself the chance to find your prefered game.
And I realy can not understand this attitude....

That new game could be the greatest game in the universe.

But I still won't play it.

Because it's not 40K.

I play 40K because it has things I like, namely Marines, Daemons, Orks and Inquisitors.

Kaldor.
You do realise you can play 'games of 40k' with other rule sets?
And that your 40k minatures do not spontaneously combust if you use alternative rule sets with them?

You like the 40k asthetic,(background and minatures) , so do I, and eveyone else that bought into 40k.

Its I dont feel compelled to stick to using an abstract holistic mess of an over complicated rule set.
(40k primary development goal is to sell toy soldiers to children, NOT provide a well defined tactical wargame.)

When there are much more fluid and tacticaly focused rule sets available FOR FREE!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

insaniak wrote:The thing is, a lot of people really just aren't interested in playing every game that's released. Or, in a lot of cases, in playing anything other than whichever game they've decided to follow.

That's nothing to do with GW or not. For some, these games are just something to do to while away a few hours... but to others, each new game is a substantial investment in time (to learn the rules and assemble whatever is required to play) and money.

And some are simply happy with what they're playing. Supported or not, if you have a game that you enjoy, there's no particular impetus to go out and try a similar game made by someone else.

insaniak has pretty much hit the nail in the head.

Take... well.. Warmachine's a good example actually. I have no interest in that game. That doesn't mean it's a bad game or that I think it's a bad game, I just have no interest in it. 40K is a bad game - terrible mechanics and rules writers with no clue how to make a balanced game - but I still like it because I like the universe and the models. BattleTech is a great game with 50% ok and 50% laughable models, but I play it because I like the universe and the detail. Warmachine could be the greatest wargame of all time - but I still wouldn't play it because I just have no interest in the universe.

H.B.M.C. has it spot on as well.

If I chose not to play other game systems It wouldnt mean that I was blinkered or a fool or anything else.

Why should someone play something if they are not interested?

Respect the choice made and move on.

For the record I currently play other games and not with GW rulsets or minis, am I in the wrong for not currently playing and supporting GW rulesets as well?

Not at all. Mr. Burning. There is nothing inherently wrong with trying out new games. I think that Kaldors attitude is reallly puzzling though. Even if it was the greatest game in the universe he wouldnt try it. WOw. Not quite sure what to say to that. Im not sure what the greatest game in the universe is but I am sure that when i comes along Im gonna play it if i have the chance.

Just for the record. There were lots of games out prior to 40k that had marines, demons, orks and the inquisition. Maybe not all in the same univers, but a lot of them had just as many interesting aspects that GW games lack. Like alien races that really are different. Not just fantasy elements stuck in outer space. The only arguably unique race that GW has come up with on their own (and maybe they stole the idea from someone and i just dont know) are the Tau. But all the rest of this fluff comes from other preexisiting games, stories, movies etc. Its all out there and i think that limiting yourself to what GW has decided to adopt shows a lack of imagination. To use my mexican food analogy from earlier, you have limited yourself to eating only cheese quesadillas because they have cheese, and tortillas. There are lots of other menu items with cheese and tortillas, as well as a host of other tasty ingredients. Its a big world out there. You should try to branch out once in a while, wearing blinders all the time to all the other good things in life is your choice but you will really miss out on a lot of good stuff.

I understand your opinion but I still fail to see how someones choice not to play a new game is an issue for you.

It is not a lack of imagination.

It is not a mental defect.

It is not a problem.

Find another group of gamers who play other games or who are willing to try games out that you suggest.

Don't get hung up over the fact that your buddy is playing M:TG or 40K exclusively.

Sorry but it displays a closed mind to alternatives.
As I understand the issue this is to try a new game, not invest time and money into something. As stated there are ways of trying things out for nowt

No it is not a problem nor a mental defect. But there does seem to be something amiss in the character to utterly deny soething new without first sucking it to see.
To be so absolutist in rejection can't be healthy imho

I find it more "wrong" to try to force games onto people just because you want to play it.

If someone wants to play Dust: Tactics but not Warmachine, who cares. If someone wants to play Hordes but not Warhammer, again--who cares.

The game mechanics alone aren't what draw people in. The models, background, and more do.
You can not want to try a new game for any one of those reasons and it's not being "absolutist in rejection".

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry but it displays a closed mind to alternatives.
As I understand the issue this is to try a new game, not invest time and money into something. As stated there are ways of trying things out for nowt

No it is not a problem nor a mental defect. But there does seem to be something amiss in the character to utterly deny soething new without first sucking it to see.
To be so absolutist in rejection can't be healthy imho

I wonder if the friend the OP references is open to alternatives affecting other aspects of their life.

I can't see how not trying other games affects ones life.

Senna is just wishing to try something out. Doesn't sound like he is trying to force anything.

It possibly does affect people's lives if they don't open up and help other guys out. May not have a major impact but you just don't know.
What if you had never decided to try Warhammer?

Not the impression I got from the OP, but if you say so.

Have scanned the posts and have seen nothing that would indicate he is doing anything other than asking to someone to try something different.

I see there is frustration but no pointing a gun at someone's head. Unless Senna is not telling us something!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What if you had never decided to try Warhammer?

I would still be a gaming nerd. And a bit richer.

So your life would have changed and we wouldn't be having this conversation

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:So your life would have changed and we wouldn't be having this conversation

I would still be digging my heels in on this discussion.

Well maybe you should get of your horse and stop digging your high heels in...

wait, don't thinks I have that quite right....

or maybe I do?

High heels are so much better for digging in I find

I don't like high heels and nothing you can say will change my mind!