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Sir_Prometheus wrote:They're not defensive weapons, they're Str 5.

You're reading entirely too much into "fired as part of the vehicle". They use their own BS. They fire on their own. They're god-damned passengers. I'll admit the rule is written kinda weirdly, but in GW speak, they're just passengers firing same time as the vehicle.

You're simply playing a game of assumptions. There is nothing that states they get their own fire points, therefore they cannot shoot since a Devilfish has none, and no unit can board a devilfish since it is already occupied by the Drones. Furthermore, using your 'logic' you would not be able to put Gun Drones on a Hammerhead, Piranha or Sky-ray, despite there being an option to, because they cannot have passengers.

Show me the quote that says Gun Drones are passengers or treated as passengers apart from they're detaaching from the vehicle.

Also, provided the Devilfish can fire a gun, the Gun Drones can to. They're not defensive weapons, but they may as well be, because if a Devilfish without a tracker moves 6", he can fire his S5 burst cannon AND the drones can fire, despite them also being S5.

Unless you can provide hard evidence to rebut the masses of evidence that is opposing you, then please can you stop trying to argue this point; this thread was created to serve people who may not be in the know, and all you're doing is confusing what should otherwise be a very straightforward topic by arguing using baseless assumptions.

Please take this conversation to YMDC. You're cluttering up my thread. Hmph.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
davethepak, thank you for the necron items! I have swapped them for the ones I had. They were good pieces of information but I do prefer your list because it addresses mistakes and such.

Olympia - please note there are some errors in the Necron one

#5 - incorrect. WBB is a special rule that tries to save the unit and is therefore disallowed by SA, because it does not specifically states it works against SA as SA requires it to do. Necrons do NOT get WBB against SA, and that includes any awaiting WBB as they are part of the unit that was Swept UNTIL their next turn, when they MAY join another unit.

#10 - incorrect. Nightbringer essentially has a lascannon.

Thanks nos.

Just a fine point on Black Templars

#10: Also they don't have Sergeants or Frag/Krak grenades.

The HQ squads have sergeants. Also, while they don't have Frag/Kraks FOR FREE like other marine codecies. But they can buy them.

Otherwise, good list.

Thanks kronk. Edited.

Just noticed this one on the Black Templars:

6. A Marshal/Castellan and a Master of Sanctity/Reclusiarch (Captain and Chaplain) can be joined to a command squad and counts as 1 HQ choice. They are also not ICs as long as the squad is alive.

Sorry, the Black Templar HQ's are not retinues. If you read the entry on HQ's (don't have page number in front of me), it states that Marshals and so on in the HQ squads may not leave the squad, but are always considered IC's.

This is one that comes up a lot on the B&C forums and I've seen it on the YMDC forums, before. It is poor wording and placement in the Black Templar codex that causes this, IMHO.

kronk, i've applied an edit to #6 but feel free to suggest other wording.

"10. Last one...BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they must pay for Sergeants and Frag/Krak grenades. "


I would change that to:

10. Last one...BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they must pay for Frag/Krak grenades. Only HQ squads have sergeants.


"6. Marshals and so (sanctity, reculsiarch, etc) in the HQ squads are not retinues and may not leave the squad, but are always considered IC's. "

Correct!

thanks for doing this, by the way. I am not familiar with a lot of these armies.

Edit added kronk. Got any Blood Angel items while you're feeling generous?

Unsure if you're looking for more, but a possible addition to the Tau one:

Tau:
Models using Target Locks have to declare seperate targets before their unit rolls to hit.

Also one for vanilla SM, SW, BA, BT, DA, and GKs:
A vehicle with PotMS cannot fire a weapon on the turn it uses smoke launchers.

olympia wrote:Edit added kronk. Got any Blood Angel items while you're feeling generous?

Nah. I wish. My buddy crushes me with his...

Avatar 720 wrote:Unsure if you're looking for more, but a possible addition to the Tau one:

Tau:
Models using Target Locks have to declare seperate targets before their unit rolls to hit.

Also one for vanilla SM, SW, BA, BT, DA, and GKs:
A vehicle with PotMS cannot fire a weapon on the turn it uses smoke launchers.

Added the potms to the general rules. It's a keeper. As for the Tau item, which one would you replace with your item about target locks?

Probably the reference to the Kroot Ld.

BRB: Large Flying Base vehicles must move faster than combat speed on the turn they arrive from reserve.
Eldar: Dark Reaper Exarch cannot use Fast shot and Crack Shot in the same turn.
Necrons: The Deciever may leave combat only on your opponents turn, and cannot be surrounded to death (as his distance moved will be extended to accomidate his escape)
The Monolith cannot be glanced to death.
Scarabs can turboboost for a 2+ cover save.
Tombspiders can generate a scarab and keep in next to them in cover for a 3+ cover save.
Tyranids: Doom of the Malantai is T4, and does not have Eternal Warrior.

Necrons - unless by AP1 weapons, when it can be glanced "to death"

Nice thread, olympia.

I think there is something off for Chaos Daemons on line 7. I don't have my Chaos Daemon codex with me, as I am at work, but I believe that Seekers and mounted Slaanesh Heralds are both cavalry. If there is some other ruling for tournaments, I may be off.

Keep up the good work!

nosferatu1001 wrote:Necrons - unless by AP1 weapons, when it can be glanced "to death"

Doh. you got me! I almost always forget that.

Nictolopy wrote:Nice thread, olympia.

I think there is something off for Chaos Daemons on line 7. I don't have my Chaos Daemon codex with me, as I am at work, but I believe that Seekers and mounted Slaanesh Heralds are both cavalry. If there is some other ruling for tournaments, I may be off.

Keep up the good work!

Yes you're right, however beasts and cavalry use exactly the same rules so there is no need to distinguish.

I think it should be pointed out that Dreadnoughts may disembark anywhere from a storm raven. i think this is stupid as it describes it as being in the grapple at the rear, but it uses the access points like the infantry inside to disembark. This at first caught me off guard as conceptually it makes no sense when you are playing it, but it effectively gives a death company dreadnought with talons a 28.5 inch possible assault range (12" move + 2" disembark + 2.5" base + 6" fleet + 6" assault).... Stupid good.

Red Corsair that is indeed vital information. However, I'd prefer to keep the list "can't do" as much as possible (although I am lacking in BA items). In my experience players seem to "forget" only the bad stuff. I've never met a space wolf player who forget about counter-attack, but even the best seem to forget about the Njal FAQ.

Fair enough, I thought this thread was more for a list of things to prep for rather then a list of can't do's as I find the can't do list could run on forever...

Example:

"GK terminators are LD 9, Strikers 8 with out Justicar"

How does this fall into the can't do's? Of 180 items listed, 15 are can't do and most are just reiterations of profiles.... Why are you telling people Orks are str3 I2???

Most of your lists are made up of these, not thnigs that are can't do's....

I am not trying to sound chippy I am just curious what your standards are for "THE LIST" as now I can't figure out if this is supposed to be a useful list or just pointing out facts that you don't think are obvious enough...

My preferred criteria for the list are things I have seen people get fethed over by at tournaments. I prefer "can't do" but include negative attributes as well. That the standard GK (not the justicar) is LD8 is something I consider to be a negative attribute and it is also something I have seen neglected at tournaments.

Also, I'm telling people ork boys are S3 and I2 because in my experience many people assume orks are the same S as a space marine. In addition, there was an ork tournament player I know who routinely played his orks as I3. There are some reall WAAC donkey-caves out there.

I've add the info about Death Company dreads. Do all death company have the Rage USR?

olympia wrote:
2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.
3. You cannot deploy a Farseer and his Jetlocks in Dawn of War as they count as 2 HQ choices. They have to move on at the start of Turn 1 and because Fortune must be cast at the start of the turn the Seer can't cast it on Turn 1.

Wrong.
Even on jetbikes, the Warlocks count as Bodyguards. With one seer on the board, they count as one HQ chioce in the force organisation HQ slot, however when the whole unit is killed (when both the locks and the seer die) only then will the two kill points be conceded. One seer, and a bodyguard of 3-10 warlocks count as ONE HQ CHOICE. The psychic powers that are not shooting attacks can be cast before movement.

General Rules
1. You may not go back and move units that have already moved once you have started moving another unit.

This. Plus it should be in bold.

I see players go back and move their units, or reposition individual models in the units after moving something else all the time.

EldarN00b wrote:

olympia wrote:
2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.
3. You cannot deploy a Farseer and his Jetlocks in Dawn of War as they count as 2 HQ choices. They have to move on at the start of Turn 1 and because Fortune must be cast at the start of the turn the Seer can't cast it on Turn 1.

Wrong.
Even on jetbikes, the Warlocks count as Bodyguards. With one seer on the board, they count as one HQ chioce in the force organisation HQ slot, however when the whole unit is killed (when both the locks and the seer die) only then will the two kill points be conceded. One seer, and a bodyguard of 3-10 warlocks count as ONE HQ CHOICE. The psychic powers that are not shooting attacks can be cast before movement.

The Warlocks are one UNIT and the Farseer is another UNIT. They can be joined together but do not have to be. In DoW deployment, it is not based on Force Org chart exclusively; it is based on number of units taken from the FOC. The statement is correct that you cannot deploy the Farseer and Warlocks together in the DoW.

Turbo Boost rules indicate those particular models may not take any other voluntary actions during the same turn they turbo boost. Taking a psychic test for Fortune is widely considered a voluntary action, therefore cannot Turboboost and cast Fortune.


@ Olympia: In regards to skimmers ending their movement on ruins or buildings: did you use the term 'landing' intentionally (IE: skimmers land in terrain in an effort to avoid LOS/dangerous terrain etc...)? Otherwise, the rules tell you what to do when ending its movement in/on terrain features. I don't understand your statements intention.

Eldarnoob - wrong
Seer council are an HQ choice that does not take up a slot. They are a UNIT in the same way the Farseerr is a UNIT, and in DoW all that matters is how many UNITS you deploy.

So if you try to put 2 HQ units down, you have broken DoW restrictions. In addition, as both are units, they are worth a KP each. They are not, in any way shape or form a bodyguard retinue

You cannot use Fortune then TB, because TB disallows ANY VOLUNTARY ACTION THAT TURN. Was fortune a voluntary action? Yes? Then you cannot TB, as you have perform a voluntary action that turn.

@Sarigar. This is a tricky one. Skimmers are not on the list of things permitted to move up in ruins but you're saying that they can land on the top eh? Hmm.... Perhaps it should be replaced with a 'safer' item.

Yeah I was wondering about that because the skimmer can land where its base can fit no matter what so it's another debate.

Ok, thanks! No problem, I was just trying to figure out what criteria to limit myself to because as I said, it could get out of hand.
Blood Angels:
Yea death company and there Dread both have rage which is definitely overlooked, also Sanguinary priests are IC so you may target them in CC which also is neglected. Mephiston is T6 but NOT Eternal Warrior so you can force/Bone sword him. Blood Talons are Str 6 as they are not a Dreadnought CC weapon.

I was limited in time so sorry if these are of no help at this point...

-Corsair