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I don't see what's hard about ditching someone your friend wants and just finding someone else. Unless you're really desperate and this is a rare thing that comes along or something.

Necroshea wrote:I don't see what's hard about ditching someone your friend wants and just finding someone else. Unless you're really desperate and this is a rare thing that comes along or something.

But still, if you ditch her, that does not automatically mean she will fall in love with your friend. I am 90% certain that she will either find someone else (not the stalking friend) and start dating him. Or then the friend will continue stalking her, and the only feeling she will ever have for him is either pity or discomfort.

So, we have three choices regarding the dithcing. either

A) Your friend will make a move, but since I would guess he has little to no experience with girls, it will be a one-week-romance. The one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
B) The girl will not be interested at all/ the stalker never dares to make a move. Again the one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
C) You start dating the girl, she likes you, you love her, and you are very happy. The stalker (probably) forgives you, and all of you are either happy or ok with it.

If he is really your friend and has this much trouble talking to women your really not being a very good friend by taking this woman, even if he doesn't have a chance in hell getting her.

I mean, unless she is super hot or has immense talents involving golf balls and garden hoses you can always just get some other woman.

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:If he is really your friend and has this much trouble talking to women your really not being a very good friend by taking this woman, even if he doesn't have a chance in hell getting her.

I mean, unless she is super hot or has immense talents involving golf balls and garden hoses you can always just get some other woman.

Why should he have to give up on someone when his friend is making efforts to lay no claim on her? That's silly. Regardless if she has talents or not, someone attempting aforementioned garden hose activities is worth something if there are no other easy choices around.

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:If he is really your friend and has this much trouble talking to women your really not being a very good friend by taking this woman, even if he doesn't have a chance in hell getting her.

I mean, unless she is super hot or has immense talents involving golf balls and garden hoses you can always just get some other woman.

Is his buddy being a much better friend by asking the guy to stand off to the side and watch him fail hard while guy himself actually has a chance in hell?

Don't be so naive.

I thought we didn't want these threads anymore.....

Ladies choice.

She isn't interested in the introvert, who hasn't sown her any interest.
He's dealt himself out of the game.

It also maters last thing we need to have happen is your girl turn into alma or some other bad girl that no one else likes.

Either that or she is manipulating both of you!

Or she has no idea what is going on and she likes you.
Basically everything said in this thread should be considered.

Asherian Command wrote:It also maters last thing we need to have happen is your girl turn into alma or some other bad girl that no one else likes.

Either that or she is manipulating both of you!

Or she has no idea what is going on and she likes you.
Basically everything said in this thread should be considered.

loota boy wrote:Ok, I have a friend who is a total introvert most of the time, and doesn't really reach out to people much. But awhile back he started looking in to this one girl, and because he's normally not very outgoing, i encouraged him to go for it even though i'd been looking at the same girl for a bit myself. I figured, Hey, i've dated plenty of girls, and this is a good chance for him to open up and step out of his comfort zone. But it's been 2 months now, and he hasn't made a shot at all. And all the while the girl has been coming on to me. I started to like her a lot more than i did before, but i wanted to give my friend a chance. But he still wouldn't really go for it. I asked him if he was still interested, and when he was gunna make a move, but he kept giving me really vague answers that didn't really mean anything. So i just figured he lost intrested, and started working towards her myself. But he saw me talking to her, and immediatly knew what i was doing. He got really mad at me, and we started fighting a bit. He said that he was gunna make a move, but i was starting to like this girl alot, and i didn't want to just back down an wait anouther month for him to work up the nerve to say hi to her in the hallway. I told him that i'd give him anouther week to go for it, but if he just kept staring at her and hoping she would just fall in her lap i was going to go for it. He called me an donkey-cave and a tool, and i called him spineless and a wuss. We haven't talked to each other sence, and i'm starting to wonder if this girl is worth a friend i've known sence 6th grade. The girl is great, and i really like her, but i don't know if it's worth it. I feel every bit of an donkey-cave and a tool while i write this, but god, i love that girl... What should i do?

How old are you?

If you're still in high school, then screw your friend, 6th grade isn't that long a time, and I can count the number of people from high school that I still talk to on one hand, even if four of the fingers were blown off...

Speaking as a real life introvert (internet doesn't count) he will most likely never ask her out.

If he is anything like me, the fear of rejection coupled with a poor self-image will ensure he stays single (and a virgin) long into his 20’s.

I like the friend zone, its so comfortable. No pressure about having to get anyone anything for Valentine's Day, no need to buy things that prevent accidental babies, and most importantly you have a friend.

But yeah, go ahead and go after her then. Your friend is just a shy introvert and possibly needs a girl to go after him, I'm mainly speaking out of personal experience although I eventually did get the courage to speak up and she thought I was a homosexual so that didn't work out well... at all.

Being an introvert isn't just being shy, its a complicated set of emotions. You begin to wonder what happens if she says yes, how do you carry on from there, what are you obligating yourself to, what if she says no, will she think you're a creep, will she stare at you whenever you walk by, will... Its just a constant set of questions without any real answers , and its more than just a lack of self-confidence its more of a not knowing what to do. Luckily I have a friend now who doesn't just tell me to "go for it" but is kind of coaching me on how to go about actually starting it on my own, but there is always the constantly nagging fear of not knowing what to do when something comes up. Why? Because you don't want to feth anything up out of fear that if you do you'll be mocked and made fun of.

That's what your friend is probably going through and he's looking at a long list of scenarios that he knows nothing about handling so he's not going to ask unless you give him some advice on how to go about doing so, did you even offer to act like a wing man?

Seriously, if you haven't considered acting like a wing man then don't try to be his friend, cut him loose and go after the girl.

This. I speak from experience too, I've only just come out of my shell and realized what an asshat I've been and how many opportunities I've thrown away (hell I'm still throwing them away), but I also happen to be in my early 20s (21 in fact), and apparently quite good looking, so all is not lost for me yet.

Anyway, in regards to friend zone, you can become friends after you start dating, but yes, you must be friends AND lovers for any relationship to work. In any case, mutual attraction is a window of opportunity, it increases w/ time, peaks, and its all downhill from there unless the two of you are committed, so either act soon or neither you nor your friend will be dating this girl.

Fact of the matter is that you gave your friend time and opportunity and he has done jack with it. It's like giving your friend the chance to buy the last sports car on the lot at a great price, but he refuses to actually put up the money for it. Its a great opportunity and both of you really want to buy it but you're waiting for him to make the decision. In the mean time, other potential customers are checking it out and maybe even test driving it.

And bro's before hoe's isn't an absolute rule, if it was that could theoretically ruin marriages. Besides that 'all is fair in love and war'. Well, not so much war, we have the Geneva Conventions there, but love... anything goes. You've played nice guy long enough, if you've known this guy for almost as long as you've been alive and you value his friendship that much then cut your losses and move on, there will be other girls. If you really like the girl that deeply and you've only known the guy a few years, then go for the girl. I doubt she is going to be 'the one' but you'll never know that if you don't try first. Besides, you never know, maybe your friend will quit being an asshat himself and realize that he's bein a whiny little bitch and a favorable output in a relationship requires some sort of actual input, and you too will stay friends anyway.

Tell this girl the facts.


I would not wreck a friendship over girl, but this guy seems a bit of a jerk. ask him if he really really 100% loves he or something, if he does, it might be wise to back off.

But, if the girl in question is already 'coming on to you' I think the chances of your buddy are somewhere in the single digits.

most of all, make sure she is not just a "Good time Girl" that is NOT worth losing a friendship over.

How do you define love? How do you know you're in love without having experienced it before? Yeah, its undefinable and unidentifiable. You can only think you love someone... if the OP is like 16 (and so is his friend) do you really think that he actually loves her? What are the chances that the romance (for either one of them) would really last that long? What are the chances that their friendship will really last? Statistically, most people will only keep in contact with one or two friends from high school for the duration of their lives, especially after college. At that, the friends that they stay in contact are usually not the ones that they start high school with. The friends I made in middle school and the start of high school are not the friends that I stayed close with throughout and after high school. The friends I made in my first year of college are not the friends I hung out with in the four years since and stayed in close contact with. People change w/ time, particularly in the 8 years between the start of high school and end of college. The friends that I've left college with are brothers to me and I'm way closer with them than any of the friends I've had previously, but even then I will only realistically maintain contact with a handful of them for the duration of my life.

In any case, assuming you do go for the girl, I hope your friend learns something from the experience, maybe it'll open his eyes and give him the drive he needs to pursue someone else in the future.

The only real consideration you need to make is if your friend is your wargaming buddy. Don't gak where you eat...

And finally,its impossible to wingman for a friend when the girl in question is interested in you and not the friend you are wingmaning for. It doesn't work that way, and there is nothing the OP can do aside from coaching from afar.

metallifan wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:It also maters last thing we need to have happen is your girl turn into alma or some other bad girl that no one else likes.

Either that or she is manipulating both of you!

Or she has no idea what is going on and she likes you.
Basically everything said in this thread should be considered.

why'd i get the tactical facepalm?

Because your post amounted to "Yea, what they said."

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Necroshea wrote:I don't see what's hard about ditching someone your friend wants and just finding someone else. Unless you're really desperate and this is a rare thing that comes along or something.

But still, if you ditch her, that does not automatically mean she will fall in love with your friend. I am 90% certain that she will either find someone else (not the stalking friend) and start dating him. Or then the friend will continue stalking her, and the only feeling she will ever have for him is either pity or discomfort.

So, we have three choices regarding the dithcing. either

A) Your friend will make a move, but since I would guess he has little to no experience with girls, it will be a one-week-romance. The one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
B) The girl will not be interested at all/ the stalker never dares to make a move. Again the one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
C) You start dating the girl, she likes you, you love her, and you are very happy. The stalker (probably) forgives you, and all of you are either happy or ok with it.

Then there's D, that is not getting into the situation, ignoring the girl, be a friend. You know he's got issues, you know he likes the girl, so just because you have a better chance at it means you should get it? It's just a girl. OP doesn't have any special attraction to the girl but the friend does. OP is a bad friend. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for friends, some big and some not so big. I seriously cannot fathom how a girl is anything other than a small matter.

OP says that his friend is not acting hostile now, but you don't know what he's thinking. For example, he likes the girl but isn't saying anything, so what's to say that he hates OP but won't say anything. It's how he is. If you seriously think a girl will ever be worth more than a friend, then there's no hope for you, so prepare to suffer a bit down the road.

chaos0xomega wrote:

And finally,its impossible to wingman for a friend when the girl in question is interested in you and not the friend you are wingmaning for. It doesn't work that way, and there is nothing the OP can do aside from coaching from afar.

That's the thing, from what I've read and from what I get the level of coaching he's been giving is similar to telling a boxer that he needs to punch the other guy to win.

He's had more than his chance. He won't ask her out if you give it longer, he'll procrastinate forever until she's taken by someone else. If anything, you taking her will just give him something to blame other than his own uselessness for not getting her for himself. She's showing interest in you, that's your cue to do something. Don't brush her off because your friend can't be bothered to make the effort.

halonachos wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

And finally,its impossible to wingman for a friend when the girl in question is interested in you and not the friend you are wingmaning for. It doesn't work that way, and there is nothing the OP can do aside from coaching from afar.

That's the thing, from what I've read and from what I get the level of coaching he's been giving is similar to telling a boxer that he needs to punch the other guy to win.

Sometimes thats all you can do, especially when you have a conflict of interest. I personally would never accept nor trust advice from a source that is biased against my favor and possibly had something to gain from seeing me fail.

Besides that, it is very pertinent advice. The kid is never going to get anywhere if he doesn't throw a punch. Until he DOES throw a punch, its pretty hard to tell him if he should jab left or right hook...

You can't be a wingman for someone who won't get in the cockpit.

I feel bad for his friend, people are always going to call him useless because he has a psychological condition that prevents him from asking a girl out, something that a lot of people take for granted. Its not that he's lazy or useless, its just that his mind is set in some way thanks to some thought process that is dictated by his mind's neuro-chemical processes.

There was a girl in high school I liked but I never asked out because I was always wondering why I wanted to ask her out. She came from a broken home and I wondered if I just wanted to date her to act like a knight in shining armor or if I really liked her. Then whenever I got the courage to ask her out she was always dating someone else. She always seemed happier when she was dating them so I didn't want to try to break them up because I was honestly happy that she was happy. I got her gifts for Christmas, and stuff that she actually liked and kept too, but I could never bring myself to ask her out because I always saw her happy with other guys. This was during four years of high school, and I finally built up the courage to do so after three years of college. But she was dating another guy and her life had turned around for the good, her family was more of a family and she was happy with her life and had stopped cutting herself. I look back at my life, that event was three years ago, and I lay awake at night sometimes wondering if I really missed out on something, wondering if I could've made her happier and then I decide that I have no right to decide who makes her happy and that choice is hers so if she felt like I was the one who would make her happy then she would ask me out.

Being "shy" or introverted is more complicated then not having dropped your balls or not manning up, its a constant thought process of over thinking situations and wanting the best for whoever you love even if the best person for them isn't you.

I really hate it when people try to simplify shy people as guys who just haven't had their balls drop or are unmanly. Shy people often suffer and will suffer for things they perceive as mistakes and they don't often get sympathy from anybody outside of their family. Hell I've never gotten sympathy from people in my family for being shy, they just wonder why I'm not dating anyone.

And to people who say he's gay, not all guys who are afraid to ask out girls are homosexuals.

I hate to say this or to curse anyone with this, but I have the right mind to say that I want some people to have kids who are shy as hell just so they could understand a little bit.

halo, I think you're preaching to the choir here, don't act like you're the only one to have been through that situation.

Show her your toy soldiers.

rubiksnoob wrote:Show her your toy soldiers.

That might not be good, what if she hates Space Marine players and he has a Space Marine army. She might yell at him for supporting an army of cheese or being uncreative.

That would make her a keeper

Stick it in sworl it around and if things go bad; trust me there will be other girls, and friends for that matter. Very few of us have the same friends out whole life.

Basically, everything Halo and Asherion have said sum up my views on this...

Bone her, your friend will probably recover from the jealousy just don't bring it up around him. Also if you need a wing-man to get a girl you're probably fethed, you need to learn to woo the ladies on your own

having a wing-man just makes you look incompetent.

halonachos wrote:I feel bad for his friend, people are always going to call him useless because he has a psychological condition that prevents him from asking a girl out, something that a lot of people take for granted. Its not that he's lazy or useless, its just that his mind is set in some way thanks to some thought process that is dictated by his mind's neuro-chemical processes.

There was a girl in high school I liked but I never asked out because I was always wondering why I wanted to ask her out. She came from a broken home and I wondered if I just wanted to date her to act like a knight in shining armor or if I really liked her. Then whenever I got the courage to ask her out she was always dating someone else. She always seemed happier when she was dating them so I didn't want to try to break them up because I was honestly happy that she was happy. I got her gifts for Christmas, and stuff that she actually liked and kept too, but I could never bring myself to ask her out because I always saw her happy with other guys. This was during four years of high school, and I finally built up the courage to do so after three years of college. But she was dating another guy and her life had turned around for the good, her family was more of a family and she was happy with her life and had stopped cutting herself. I look back at my life, that event was three years ago, and I lay awake at night sometimes wondering if I really missed out on something, wondering if I could've made her happier and then I decide that I have no right to decide who makes her happy and that choice is hers so if she felt like I was the one who would make her happy then she would ask me out.

Being "shy" or introverted is more complicated then not having dropped your balls or not manning up, its a constant thought process of over thinking situations and wanting the best for whoever you love even if the best person for them isn't you.

I really hate it when people try to simplify shy people as guys who just haven't had their balls drop or are unmanly. Shy people often suffer and will suffer for things they perceive as mistakes and they don't often get sympathy from anybody outside of their family. Hell I've never gotten sympathy from people in my family for being shy, they just wonder why I'm not dating anyone.

And to people who say he's gay, not all guys who are afraid to ask out girls are homosexuals.

I hate to say this or to curse anyone with this, but I have the right mind to say that I want some people to have kids who are shy as hell just so they could understand a little bit.

I am an introvert too, and find it extremely difficult to talk to girls that i pericieve to be friends. Not because i am afraid of them but because It feels like someone is constantly watching you and it makes you feel extremely uncomfortable to be around other people and then you can't really talk because your too embrassed.

Just talk to your friend and support him to get the girl. Also if anything happens during the relationship its not like he has any chance of shapdoinking her.

As an example I was recently involved with this girl. I ask her if she and I can talk priviately. No We didn't do that. We talked and talked and talked and talked.. We enjoyed each others company, but she told me "But in all honesty give up all chances of becoming my boyfriend because that is not happening."
"Fine, I vow it. But if you want to date me, deals off and you have to ask me out."
"Highly unlikely Cameron, But okay."
*winner* 2 months later she gets into a relationship, the relationship ends badly. I close lined her boyfriend 4 months later at school. (1 week ago.)

If anything help him out. Tell him to man up and ask the girl out. You only like her right now because. Well lets put it in this analogy. I have a big cookie you like that cookie. But I don't want to eat it, because it makes me feel embrassed to eat it in front of you. You want the cookie, You steal the cookie from me. Slapping it out of my hands and gleefully flipping me off. I get sad and kick you in the balls. That is basically what is happening. Let him have the cookie is what i am saying.

Nothing feels worse than having a high school crush girl walking away with another guy, you kinda feel betrayed. Of course no one does that to me in fear of in-sighting a rebellion.

I got a question, if your into a girl why would you send your budy after her instead. It's just a fight waiting to happen.?

And I would say leave it. A girl ur with for a few months isn't worth a friendship you've had since 6th grade. I know when you hit that lovey dubby stage it seems like there isn't gunna be anyone else but that's were the maturity and being an adult should kick in.

wowsmash wrote:I got a question, if your into a girl why would you send your budy after her instead. It's just a fight waiting to happen.?

And I would say leave it. A girl ur with for a few months isn't worth a friendship you've had since 6th grade. I know when you hit that lovey dubby stage it seems like there isn't gunna be anyone else but that's were the maturity and being an adult should kick in.

You should reverse the question. If you start dating a girl your friend does not approve and leaves you forever for that, then what does that friendship mean to HIM? If your friend ditches you just because of that, then he is not a friend at all. It is like your mother saying to you before your marriage that "You should leave that girl, I don't want you to like her! If you don't, I will never speak to you again."

If you let your friend control your personal life that much, then I would say you are even more apathic than he is. One must remember that there is friendship, and then there is bossing. I bet he would not go in front of a stranger dating his crush and demand that he leaves his girl alone. The only thing why he tells you to back off is because he is so bitter to himself for not having the courage to talk to the girl before she fell in love with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necroshea wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Necroshea wrote:I don't see what's hard about ditching someone your friend wants and just finding someone else. Unless you're really desperate and this is a rare thing that comes along or something.

But still, if you ditch her, that does not automatically mean she will fall in love with your friend. I am 90% certain that she will either find someone else (not the stalking friend) and start dating him. Or then the friend will continue stalking her, and the only feeling she will ever have for him is either pity or discomfort.

So, we have three choices regarding the dithcing. either

A) Your friend will make a move, but since I would guess he has little to no experience with girls, it will be a one-week-romance. The one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
B) The girl will not be interested at all/ the stalker never dares to make a move. Again the one who ditched her and the stalker are unhappy.
C) You start dating the girl, she likes you, you love her, and you are very happy. The stalker (probably) forgives you, and all of you are either happy or ok with it.

Then there's D, that is not getting into the situation, ignoring the girl, be a friend. You know he's got issues, you know he likes the girl, so just because you have a better chance at it means you should get it? It's just a girl. OP doesn't have any special attraction to the girl but the friend does. OP is a bad friend. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for friends, some big and some not so big. I seriously cannot fathom how a girl is anything other than a small matter.

OP says that his friend is not acting hostile now, but you don't know what he's thinking. For example, he likes the girl but isn't saying anything, so what's to say that he hates OP but won't say anything. It's how he is. If you seriously think a girl will ever be worth more than a friend, then there's no hope for you, so prepare to suffer a bit down the road.

I actually don't care if a friend of mine leaves me because of a girl. It's his loss, not mine.

wowsmash wrote:And I would say leave it. A girl ur with for a few months isn't worth a friendship you've had since 6th grade.

Why do you assume he'd only be with her for only a few months? Quite a damned few relationships last longer.

If his friendship with that boy (and he is surely merely a boy if he'd dump their friendship over his own indecisiveness-- not a guy and certainly not a man) is on the line, then it's not a very deep friendship in the first place.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:I actually don't care if a friend of mine leaves me because of a girl. It's his loss, not mine.

If you truly feel no loss when a friend leaves you, your friend was deceived into thinking he had a friend in the first place.