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If you ever, EVER hit your child (IMO) you are a horrible parent, you never hit another human being that is smaller then you and cant defend him/herself (Why dont you smake a grown man for being silly and see how far you go. It is wrong and the most dumbest thing a parent can do. Even sending your son/daughter to bed without dinner is horribly crewl, you wont let your child eat food?...not having desert is fine. If you dont give your child one of his/her human right (which is a child must eat) you are also a horrible and terrible parent.

The only disipline that is right, is to send them to their room, and impose bans. that is all a parent should do, and if they keep acting up, you starting taking there toys/possensions away. (NO I DONT MEAN THERE bed or sleeping bits) then they will learn.

slapping a kid on his behind is still child abuse. I dont what you americans even think your doing, if I child swears, YOU SLAP THEM ON THE MOUTH!?!!?!?...no that is pretty much punching them in the face. if you slap your child I'd idvise you to see a parenting guide, or give you child to foster care, cause there not safe if you slap/smack/hit or dont let them eat.

Jesus you Americans have some funny ways of treating your kids.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:If you ever, EVER hit your child (IMO) you are a horrible parent, you never hit another human being that is smaller then you and cant defend him/herself (Why dont you smake a grown man for being silly and see how far you go. It is wrong and the most dumbest thing a parent can do. Even sending your son/daughter to bed without dinner is horribly crewl, you wont let your child eat food?...not having desert is fine. If you dont give your child one of his/her human right (which is a child must eat) you are also a horrible and terrible parent.

The only disipline that is right, is to send them to their room, and impose bans. that is all a parent should do, and if they keep acting up, you starting taking there toys/possensions away. (NO I DONT MEAN THERE bed or sleeping bits) then they will learn.

slapping a kid on his behind is still child abuse. I dont what you americans even think your doing, if I child swears, YOU SLAP THEM ON THE MOUTH!?!!?!?...no that is pretty much punching them in the face. if you slap your child I'd idvise you to see a parenting guide, or give you child to foster care, cause there not safe if you slap/smack/hit or dont let them eat.

Jesus you Americans have some funny ways of treating your kids.

Most of the posters advocating corporeal punishment don't use it every time a child does something bad and I still think it's a good idea because it sends as clear of message as words due and it makes the child

realize that the parent is willing to back up there statements if pushed.

fare enough, but as I said. Thats just my op

ParatrooperSimon wrote:
Jesus you Americans have some funny ways of treating your kids.

Naw, you're just a kiwi with rather odd ideas (and a strange accent that denies that the great vowel shift ever happened).
New Zealand actually banned this crap, didn't they?

Nowt wrong with a clip behind the ear when it is deserved.

I don't beat my children (I don't have - CAN'T have - any) but other folk's kids often make me wish I could wallop them.
No self-discipline in any of them. It's all "but I want ..." and "gimme an iphone for my birthday" and a fundamental inability to understand the concept of "no".

These days, sending a kid to their room is NOT a punishment, it is a reward.

Why?

It's often where their games console, computer and other stuff is. Sending them to their room just sends the signal that they get to play with their stuff for doing the wrong thing.

If you're going to send them to their room, then at least put their stuff into storage for the duration first.

I think if your child is being a proper asshat. -Knows- it and behaves as such. A smack is acceptable. Mind you a smack. Not fething driving you fist into his gut until he develops a stomach ulcer.

Shadowbrand wrote:I think if your child is being a proper asshat. -Knows- it and behaves as such. A smack is acceptable. Mind you a smack. Not fething driving you fist into his gut until he develops a stomach ulcer.

I honestly want to see an episode of Super Nanny where Gordon Ramsay is taking care of the kids.

When I was little, my parents spanked me when I acted up.

When I was older, since I was disciplined from spankings and understood what to do and not to do, I rarely got in trouble.

I may be a couple hairs off from normal (at least that's what my Coworkers and Managers say. They like it though. Keeps work Interesting according to them.), but that isn't because my parents disciplined me by spanking me when I was too young to understand what was right or wrong. That's because during High School I spent about 99% of my free time Reading, playing WoW/40K/DND or writing for a small time F2P MMORPG instead of sleeping.


Spanking, Washing out mouth with soap, and Going to bed without dinner are good forms of punishment to a child when they are young and misbehave.

It makes the kid think, "I don't like being spanked, I won't do that again" Or "I don't like the taste of soap, I won't say that again" Or " I like food, I won't do that again"

Making your kid miss one meal out of 1095(365*3) isn't cruel. you could cut that number in about 1/4 and still be under the line for cruel.


What I don't understand is all of these new(ish) laws that say that this kind of punishment is bad. there is a point where it becomes abuse, but that's more along the lines of "No food for 3 days, pour bleach down their throat, or beat them with a wooden sword". Not one swat on the butt, A bar of Dove Soap in the mouth, or no food for tonight.

These people that are passing/passed/will pass these child abuse laws are people, who as a kid, were most likely punished like this. It gets the point across a lot better than "It's not nice to stick a steak knife in mommy's thigh, say your sorry and no iPhone for you, little Jimmy(age 3), until after dinner." followed by a hug.

While I was spanked when I was little, my sister wasn't, due to my aunt freaking out because I did something bad and got swatted on the rear because of it. My sister got the "Child Friendly" Discipline growing up.

I am well behaved. My sister however, fights with my parents every week, usually 3-4 times. She always starts the fights, and my parents have, quite a few times, threatened to just kick her out because of it. She is 18, I am 20.

Take that little anecdote as you will.


Edit: one last point to top off. The Aunt that freaked out has a 24 year old daughter who also got the "Child Friendly" Discipline. Her Daughter is: a College Dropout, Unemployed because she doesn't want to work, and mooches off of said aunt.

/point made
/thread

Shadowbrand wrote:I think if your child is being a proper asshat. -Knows- it and behaves as such. A smack is acceptable. Mind you a smack. Not fething driving you fist into his gut until he develops a stomach ulcer.

In terms of the lesson being taught, what's the difference? and why do you draw the line there?


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Iur_tae_mont wrote:
It makes the kid think, "I don't like being spanked, I won't do that again" Or "I don't like the taste of soap, I won't say that again" Or " I like food, I won't do that again"

Yes but is that a good lesson to teach them. it certainly doesn't make them a good person, at least any-more than a planes is good for delivering aid, or a hammer is good for building housing.


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chromedog wrote:I disagree, but then I believe the ONLY discipline that counts is SELF-DISCIPLINE (no, I'm not talking about flagellation ).

It's something that CANNOT be taught, but has to be learned - often the hard way.

Life sucks, get a helmet.

What's the difference, do you mean behaving for the sake of behaving?

Ultrafool wrote:My mother either threw her shoe at me, which never missed, or pull on my sideburns (my weakness). She even hit me for things I was thinking of doing.

Your Mom was the Bad Mutha Shaft of the Mom world.




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ParatrooperSimon wrote:If you ever, EVER hit your child (IMO) you are a horrible parent, you never hit another human being that is smaller then you and cant defend him/herself

Wow thats so much bs its not funny. What, you want me to hit people bigger than me? Thats just nonsense.

Frazzled wrote:

Ultrafool wrote:My mother either threw her shoe at me, which never missed, or pull on my sideburns (my weakness). She even hit me for things I was thinking of doing.

Your Mom was the Bad Mutha Shaft of the Mom world.




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ParatrooperSimon wrote:If you ever, EVER hit your child (IMO) you are a horrible parent, you never hit another human being that is smaller then you and cant defend him/herself

Wow thats so much bs its not funny. What, you want me to hit people bigger than me? Thats just nonsense.

If your kids ever grow bigger than you, you've fed them well. Have at it.

I was smacked around as a kid. However, I have grown to become quite
the timid person and passive aggressive smartass. I haven't figured out
one thing lead to the other, but now when I see my dad he's much
different than the man who terrified me as a child. I figure a part of
me was born timid, and life exacerbated some of that.

Wish I could have been a Genghis Connie.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:Why dont you smake a grown man for being silly and see how far you go.

Because (1) a grown man (presumably) doesn't need that type of correction; and (2) you can reason with a grown man. Also, when a parent smacks a child it's not done with the intent or purpose of hurting the child. It's done to trigger a small pain respose and create a negative association between the child and the activity. If you smack a kid's hand when she reaches for a hot stove, she quickly learns not to reach for the hot stove.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:It is wrong and the most dumbest thing a parent can do. Even sending your son/daughter to bed without dinner is horribly crewl, you wont let your child eat food?...not having desert is fine. If you dont give your child one of his/her human right (which is a child must eat) you are also a horrible and terrible parent.

This might surprise you, but most kids aren't so food deprived that missing a single meal will have a significant adverse effect on them. And not letting the kid have dessert? If your kid gets a dessert every night after dinner such that the deprivation thereof is a punishment, then I'd suggest you're doing something wrong as a parent.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:The only disipline that is right, is to send them to their room, and impose bans. that is all a parent should do, and if they keep acting up, you starting taking there toys/possensions away. (NO I DONT MEAN THERE bed or sleeping bits) then they will learn.

No, they really won't. Because the deprivation of minor luxuries from a child does not have the same effect as a spanking, time-out (physical isolation, presumably you'd have a problem with this), or skipping dinner.

malfred wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Ultrafool wrote:My mother either threw her shoe at me, which never missed, or pull on my sideburns (my weakness). She even hit me for things I was thinking of doing.

Your Mom was the Bad Mutha Shaft of the Mom world.




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ParatrooperSimon wrote:If you ever, EVER hit your child (IMO) you are a horrible parent, you never hit another human being that is smaller then you and cant defend him/herself

Wow thats so much bs its not funny. What, you want me to hit people bigger than me? Thats just nonsense.

If your kids ever grow bigger than you, you've fed them well. Have at it.

I was smacked around as a kid. However, I have grown to become quite
the timid person and passive aggressive smartass. I haven't figured out
one thing lead to the other, but now when I see my dad he's much
different than the man who terrified me as a child. I figure a part of
me was born timid, and life exacerbated some of that.

Wish I could have been a Genghis Connie.

GC and friend went paint balling yesterday. Dap Dap Dap. Frazzled blew out his hip, and went down in a blaze of glory of pistol shooting his paint rifle at the BGs...

Cheesecat wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:All I know is, kids behaved a lot better when it was ok to bust their ass for misbehaving. Now it is all time out stuff and begging them to behave. The line between fear and respect is rather thin.

I wouldn't say punks from the 70's (or even 60's hippies who spent most there time lazing about and smoking weed) were any better disciplined than the teens we have now. But maybe there was an age

when unruly youngsters was a rarer sight than it is today but I still remain doubtful that it actually exists.

Those guys aren't kids though. They look late 20's. Besides, that guy with the gun can take care of them if they get unruly enough.


You may have a point about the Punks and hippies not any better, but the children of those times were way better behaved.

I grew up getting "whooped" or "switched" whatever other sort of name can be applied to a spanking, and in NONE of the instances where I received that as punishment did I not deserve it. So long as it does not cross that thin line into abuse, spanking a misbehaving child does work.. countless upstanding, contributing members to society attest to this.


For clarification, I think there has been some confusion over the use of the "send the child to bed with no dinner as punishment" thing. While not overly harmful to a kid, sending them to bed for just misbehaving can be seen as wrong. However, if I am feeding my child a pot roast with potatoes, carrots, and corn (the works really), but the little bugger is refusing to eat, acting like a total "ass-hat".. or wants to be a spoiled brat and refuse to eat unless they get McD's or something, then they will definitely go to bed hungry.

Growing up at my house, if you didn't want/like what was on the table, well then you either figured out how to make a sandwich, eat what was served, or you went hungry.. and eating what was served was a requirement for any sort of dessert.


I have also found that a raised voice can work to get my kid in line, but what works even better without physical contact is talking real quiet so they have to be close to listen, and using a somewhat menacing tone when doing so..

Additionally, since my daughter is only 2, spanking has yet to be used, as I feel that she is not old enough to understand the punishment and negative associations to her actions and the spanking. Once she is old enough to understand that though, spanking will be one tool in the proverbial tool belt for myself and the missus. My point is though, punishments need to be age appropriate to the child, as well as appropriate to the deed.

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:The little one's three-ish. I could toss him across the room with one hand...

I will MAKE him sit in time out. Intimidating children and making them cry is deeply satisfying for some reason.

You are a scary person...

She sounds like my brother the Giant. He actually gets satisfaction from wearing scary masks, and waking his kids up in the middle of the night he either does the scream to wake them, or my personal, most fethed up "your going to give them switches when they grow up" is he will just sit on their beds and wake them up gently and start talking normal. They wake up, hear daddy, then open eyes to see the fething Devil or melted face man giving them the shove. Sheesh.

Later, he will wonder why they never visit his drooling ass in the nursing home...

And I will follow with a nice "I told you so" hallmark card

biccat wrote:If your kid gets a dessert every night after dinner such that the deprivation thereof is a punishment, then I'd suggest you're doing something wrong as a parent.

I'm not a parent, but I see things much much differently then most other people, yes you may have bin smacked around a bit, but have you ever had things thrown at you for the intent that the person wants to hurt you (such as beer bottles and and wine bottles), live in a household where constant fighting was just a day to day thing. Me and my brother would hide in our rooms and pray to whoever the Christ would here us. A lot of you have never bin in situations like that (some will say "YES I HAVE SO STFU" because this is a forum and a lot of people tend to talk a bit of crap because their trying to get some sort of dramatic factor into it) when things like that happen to you, you tend to see things A LOT differently. All I know is that any kind of physical abuse to a child is utterly and morally wrong for a parent to do, even if they only want to enforce discipline and not hurt.

Yeah, but that's kinda the point others are making I though? Enough is discipline, more is abuse. From the sounds of it, you got more.

KingCracker wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:The little one's three-ish. I could toss him across the room with one hand...

I will MAKE him sit in time out. Intimidating children and making them cry is deeply satisfying for some reason.

You are a scary person...

She sounds like my brother the Giant. He actually gets satisfaction from wearing scary masks, and waking his kids up in the middle of the night he either does the scream to wake them, or my personal, most fethed up "your going to give them switches when they grow up" is he will just sit on their beds and wake them up gently and start talking normal. They wake up, hear daddy, then open eyes to see the fething Devil or melted face man giving them the shove. Sheesh.

I'm not THAT bad. Mostly I just want to be left alone to play games, study, and chat wih friends.

But my family won't allow that. I'm a student, therefor, my time isnt' very valuable and I can watch my sister's little walking mistakes while she goes off somewhere to bang her husband or something (dunno what the eff they do half the time)... even though I'm busier than they are.

Oh man, you are SO sounding like a collage kid with no children. Im talking, poster child for it

MrDwhitey wrote:Yeah, but that's kinda the point others are making I though? Enough is discipline, more is abuse. From the sounds of it, you got more.

This is what I am asking, when it becomes abuse. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to it. Full punch=abuse while light smack doesn't count as abuse in my eyes. There is that difference between telling off and punishing and abusing your child.

I grew up in a daycare and got to see many different types of dicipline the parents provided to their kids. By grow up in, I mean my mother ran it out of the home, not I went to daycare btw.
You want to know something? The parents who occasionally spanked their kids, and gave a little coporal punishment? Guess what? their kids (in general) were better behaved. The parents who used the 'modern' diciplinary methods of reasoning with them and giving them a time out ended up with little gits who wouldn't listen to anyone. Well... other than my mother. She's fething _scary_ even when she can't hit you...
First of all, children are learning. By putting in a negative response to something it has a tendency to stick. When you spank a child, or give them a little slap upside the head/hand/whatever you don't usually hit them that hard. Enough to hurt yes. But it stings, and it's usually more surprising than anything else. And they remember. They don't remember the time outs, as children have the short term memory of goldfish whose water has been replaced with bong-water. 5 minutes after the time out they'll forget. It's how they're built.
Me? I'm going to smack my kids. Not a lot of course, but having seen what happens to the kids who don't know dicipline... A few moments of 'ow that stings' is a lot better than the concequences when they hit the real world. Because when they grow up and expect the world to revolve around them they're in for some major pain.

Children have EXCELLENT memory. As good as it gets actually. And the best functioning learning system in the galaxy (that we know of)
And I can tell that i have NEVER needed being beaten by my parents; and i have had no problem not behaving well and respectfully. I am raising my own first kid, and i have yet to see ANY situation that either warrants or needs me to take physically punitive/violent means towards my child.
I live in denmark, where ALL slapping of a kid is illegal as well, and i think thats fine.
And for those who think that physical punishment of children is the road to well-being and discipline.... hmm visit a jail and ask the inmates for their childhood experiences of physical punishment...
Im a clinical psychologist working with children with violent, criminal and sexually abusive behaviour so maybe that is biasing me as well (though i regard it more as actual experience as well as research and theoretical knowledge). I can tell you for sure that these child and adolescent abusers and criminals have had general experiences of physically punitive parents (which in denmark, as said, is legally regarded as violence).

Just my 2 cents

They remember things that they need to. A time out is rarely memorable enough to stick. Some kids yes, it does. Others need the physical stimulus.
And there's a big difference between a spanking and a beating. Sure many of the people in a prison were beaten as children. I'll bet there's just as many who never had a hand raised to them. If not more of those. You can physicially punish a child without abusing them. Children aren't as fragile as the modern world seems to think. They're designed to bounce back. That isn't saying go overboard, but once again, a few smacks on their butt with enough force to redden it and make it memorable to sit down for a few minutes... that won't harm them. Not every child needs it. It's a case by case thing. One thing might earn a spanking, other a time out.

LordofMuck wrote: I am raising my own first kid, and i have yet to see ANY situation that either warrants or needs me to take physically punitive/violent means towards my child.

Really? So when your kid reaches for the electrical socket/hot stove/blender you're going take the time to explain to them why it's wrong? Or are you going to slap them on the hand and say "no" and then, when they are out of danger, explain that the appliance is dangerous?

A slap on the back of the hand or a spanking for the most egregious offences (and only for repeated violations) is more than enough when they are young, as they age you simply take away what is precious to them IMO.

Also if you are going to swat them with something use your hand and not a belt, switch or paddle. I know it sounds kind of weird but you can't really judge the level of pain caused if you use a belt. You want to convince them not to reoffend not cause damage.

Also if you are going to spank your kid don’t pull their pants down first for Christ sake. And don’t freaking do it in a public place, if the kid is acting up leave your shopping in a aisle and drag them out of the store.

Just my two cents worth


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biccat wrote:

LordofMuck wrote: I am raising my own first kid, and i have yet to see ANY situation that either warrants or needs me to take physically punitive/violent means towards my child.

Really? So when your kid reaches for the electrical socket/hot stove/blender you're going take the time to explain to them why it's wrong? Or are you going to slap them on the hand and say "no" and then, when they are out of danger, explain that the appliance is dangerous?

You could just grab their hand to stop them from touching the socket/wood chipper maybe?

What happens if they try to cross the street without looking both ways? Do you sucker punch them?

CoI wrote:
Me? I'm going to smack my kids. Not a lot of course, but having seen what happens to the kids who don't know dicipline...

What? what happens to those kids?


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Azza007 wrote:

MrDwhitey wrote:Yeah, but that's kinda the point others are making I though? Enough is discipline, more is abuse. From the sounds of it, you got more.

This is what I am asking, when it becomes abuse. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to it. Full punch=abuse while light smack doesn't count as abuse in my eyes. There is that difference between telling off and punishing and abusing your child.

But the lesson it teaches them is identical so what's the real difference? I'm sure parents who throw bottles at there children think that what they do is fine and that, say, starving children in the basement is abuse. Why draw the line a a smack and not at a full punch?


I'm sure we agree that the job of a parent is to raise a happy, healthy and Moral child, so my question is, where does discipline come in to that? Children who scream in restaurants and cry in supermarkets know that what they are doing is 'wrong' they know that there parents and other people don't like it, the problem it's that they don't care. By hurting the child we can get it conform to our rules but it still will have no idea why. If you ever have to hurt your child you've failed your number one job as a parent. Discipline is not a desirable thing.

In addition to that we have to ask what type of lesson it teaches children, primarily that 'might makes right' the child's parent in there eyes, are only good because their big. rules aren't agreed upon collective codes people follow, but facts, enforced by the 'rule giver' (the biggest person)

There is zero reason to EVER hit a child, it screws there head up beyond belief.

Cheesecat wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:All I know is, kids behaved a lot better when it was ok to bust their ass for misbehaving. Now it is all time out stuff and begging them to behave. The line between fear and respect is rather thin.

I wouldn't say punks from the 70's (or even 60's hippies who spent most there time lazing about and smoking weed) were any better disciplined than the teens we have now. But maybe there was an age

when unruly youngsters was a rarer sight than it is today but I still remain doubtful that it actually exists.

Sex Pistols Bill Grundy interview..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRNOUz7uefA

Random kids lifted of youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiXc_03FVns&feature=related

... Which seems more rude and foul mouthed to you MilkDog..?

Kragura wrote:
What's the difference, do you mean behaving for the sake of behaving?

No.

Self discipline is knowing the difference between being able to do something and CHOOSING NOT TO and also knowing why the difference is important.

Not so much a case of "we can do this stuff." as "Wait. Should we be doing it?".

Of course, MY self-discipline came about because we actually had children being disciplined when I was one. Children who shoplifted were "talked to" by a local police sgt (who might have overstated things, but "scared straight" was a valid tactic back then). We didn't have 'gangs' of badly behaved oiks harassing people on the street, bashing them and stealing their phones (ok, that's because we didn't have phones on us worth stealing).