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Relapse wrote:Clearly you have not taken a girlfriend to these movies. All I can say is that women enjoy seeing a stud with his shirt off as much as guys like seeing a hottie half unzipped if the women I've taken to these shows is any indication.

The point is not that women won't find these things attractive, the point is that the thing was put in the movie for an entirely different reason. Just like you can sit there watching some gak romantic comedy with Scarlett Johansen in it and thinking she's really hot, but that doesn't mean her part is primarily as a sex object.

There is no issue with someone being attractive in a movie. The issue is that it was noted, quite rightly, that women were mostly passive in these movies, just there to be an object of affection and need capturing. Unfortunately, the response to that was to make them into another highly sexualised cliche, the femme fatale.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Considering how many women are sexually assaulted and/or raped.

I am rather curious to know what % of the men in the population are rapists. That would be an enlightening read.


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any ideas guys?

Well, I'm not one. Hope this helps.

Don't assume that rapists are all knife wielding manics grabbing women off the street. Rape covers any instance where sex is non-consensual. How many women are raped by their boyfriends and won't take no for an answer? How many women have had or are in an abusive relationship? Cases of rape occurring between partners are very hard to prosecute, which is why figures in surveys don't match up at all with actual investigations and prosecutions. Many are not reported let alone taken further by the authorities. I think you may be surprised how many women, while they haven't been physically beaten and been threatened with knives etc, have had sex against their will as a result of intimidation, coercion, or have been grossly taken advantage of, say if they have been drinking or are unwell? Stranger-rape is quite uncommon.

Well my perfect fatherly advice is compeltely applicable, and was in fact meant mostly for BFs. To restate:
Kick 'em in the nuts. If needed blast away, then "kick 'em in the nuts. Alternatively if really mad call mom, tell her to get Daddy Frazzled, and bring the pliers.


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Melissia wrote:

sebster wrote:Within that, you see the following breakdown of what women have reported;

Completed forced penetration - 12.3% of women or 14,617,000 in the US
Attempted forced penetration - 5.2% of women or 6,199,000 in the US
Completed alcohol/drug facilitated penetration - 8.0% or 9,524,000 in the US


I take it all back, their definition is sound and their conclusions are seriously frightening.

Suddenly getting my own handgun and concealed permit is now a much higher priority for me...

Hey I've offered to give advice on that Texas Belle.


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Bromsy wrote:Stuff like this is why I can't wrap my head around why so many females I know 'don't like guns'. I mean, there is literally a magic wand that you can wave, that cancels out all the physical advantages the average man has over the average woman, and you don't like it cause it's loud?

I blame the parents (seriously). I've brought several reluctant femmes out to the range where their SOs or other. Its particularly fun when they go from scared scared guns evil to shooting a .44 Magnum in the space of 2 hours.
The Boy started shooting at 5. The Wife prompted me actually and told me this was Dad's duty, so I started GC at 8. Now that I think about it, I have two weeks off. Come on kid, time to go blow some stuff up!

I do need to reinforce the hand to hand escape techniques though.



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malfred wrote:

sebster wrote:

Bromsy wrote:Stuff like this is why I can't wrap my head around why so many females I know 'don't like guns'. I mean, there is literally a magic wand that you can wave, that cancels out all the physical advantages the average man has over the average woman, and you don't like it cause it's loud?

Because most rapes don't involve overt physical force from strangers.

Right. Maybe you don't think to take your gun with you when you're
with friends or someone you know.

Why not?

Howard A Treesong wrote:From what I gather from the US, sex education is very poor in some areas basically amounting to telling kids not to do it until they are married.

Yes, most of the country has only recently thrown off the abstinence-only education crap that was foisted on us by Bush Jr.

Albatross wrote:
Well, I'm not one. Hope this helps.

Me either.. I dont think you should be making jokes in this thread either because rape is no laughing matter.

Well, unless your raping a clown.

sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:Clearly you have not taken a girlfriend to these movies. All I can say is that women enjoy seeing a stud with his shirt off as much as guys like seeing a hottie half unzipped if the women I've taken to these shows is any indication.

The point is not that women won't find these things attractive, the point is that the thing was put in the movie for an entirely different reason. Just like you can sit there watching some gak romantic comedy with Scarlett Johansen in it and thinking she's really hot, but that doesn't mean her part is primarily as a sex object.

There is no issue with someone being attractive in a movie. The issue is that it was noted, quite rightly, that women were mostly passive in these movies, just there to be an object of affection and need capturing. Unfortunately, the response to that was to make them into another highly sexualised cliche, the femme fatale.

Right on!

It's not how they look, it's how they act. If she's a fully realized character who acts like an actual person and the character wants to unzip a bit, then it's totally fine.

Saying that women in movies SHOULD dress in a less sexy manner is exactly as bad as saying they should dress in a more sexy manner. It denies agency. They can wear what they want for the reasons they want. If it seems artificial and unnatural for that character, then the term is "bad filmmaking"

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:For all the men on dakka and this thread who have a hard time beleiving the stats, women rarely discuss this subject with men.

Women do discuss this subject quite a lot between ourselves. I know that the statistic of 1 in 5 raped, or 1 in 4 sexually assaulted is pretty damned accurate.

It comes up in conversation, I have had a lot of friends, and in my experience the math is the same.


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Most rapes and sexual assaults are also done by family members, or partners. Rarely are they committed by the total stranger.

So what do we do? How do we address this?

Asherian Command wrote:You know. Its kinda funny how people talk about female rape but don't remember male rape. Where a guy is raped by a girl. Its possible and it happens alot. What guy is going to admit to getting raped by a girl?

Surely you jest?!

I mean, I once was drinking in a pub in Sheffield when me and 6 of the lads were detailed to spend a week at a big scout convention showing the kids unarmed combat and gak, it was a great detail, known as a "jolly" because it's just to help with recruiting and you spend time getting leathered, doing very little work and going out on the piss in the UK.

Anyways, I was getting "shag me eyes" of this blonde bird, so I sauntered over and asked her how she was doing and if she wanted a drink with me. 5 minutes later she leaned over and said "tell me what you want to do to me then..." and I spat my drink out. Needless to say 20 minutes later we were back at the hotel and I have to say, it was the first time in my life ive been somewhat uncomfortable with a woman who shrieked filth of epic proportions, clawed my back to ribbons, and refused to let me sleep at all. By about the eighth time I was holding back tears of frustration and rage, and sobbing as she grinded against me like a grizzly bear trying vainly to scratch its back on a tree.

She left the next day and I had bleary eyes, a severe limp and chinese burn running the full length of...

Well anyways.. I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex. I mean, unless you mean "tie you up and rape you with a bottle of shower gel" at which point I stand corrected.

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

mattyrm wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:You know. Its kinda funny how people talk about female rape but don't remember male rape. Where a guy is raped by a girl. Its possible and it happens alot. What guy is going to admit to getting raped by a girl?

Surely you jest?!

I mean, I once was drinking in a pub in Sheffield when me and 6 of the lads were detailed to spend a week at a big scout convention showing the kids unarmed combat and gak, it was a great detail, known as a "jolly" because it's just to help with recruiting and you spend time getting leathered, doing very little work and going out on the piss in the UK.

Anyways, I was getting "shag me eyes" of this blonde bird, so I sauntered over and asked her how she was doing and if she wanted a drink with me. 5 minutes later she leaned over and said "tell me what you want to do to me then..." and I spat my drink out. Needless to say 20 minutes later we were back at the hotel and I have to say, it was the first time in my life ive been somewhat uncomfortable with a woman who shrieked filth of epic proportions, clawed my back to ribbons, and refused to let me sleep at all. By about the eighth time I was holding back tears of frustration and rage, and sobbing as she grinded against me like a grizzly bear trying vainly to scratch its back on a tree.

She left the next day and I had bleary eyes, a severe limp and chinese burn running the full length of...

Well anyways.. I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex. I mean, unless you mean "tie you up and rape you with a bottle of shower gel" at which point I stand corrected.

O.o

You know there are ways on making men "stand to" even if they don't want to.

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

mattyrm wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

I'd be ticked off bcause I was late for supper. Ancient Budha say, do not get between the Nazgul and his prey, or Frazzled and his plate, but I repeat myself.

Kilkrazy wrote:That is one of the arguments around the issue.

There are women from the 60s who say that in those days they sometimes consented reluctantly to sex in circumstances where actually they would have preferred not to have sex, because it was less trouble than having a row about it. They did not consider this rape as such, merely an episode of bad sex.

These same women say that modern women do consider such circumstances to be rape, and will complain about it in surveys, which helps explain the higher reporting of rape.

Remembering that in the UK until 1994, a wife was deemed to have consented in perpetuity to sex with her husband.

1991, not 1994. R v R, House of Lords. Most previous cases had found other ways to prosecute though that didn't require a clarification of that point of law.

mattyrm wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

Are you serious or trolling?

mattyrm wrote: Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

Well, trauma affects everybody in a different way. There are veterans of horrible wars that sleep like a baby at night, and victims of muggings that spent months in counseling due to nightmares and PTSD.

Mental pain is much like physical pain: it's subjective and highly personal.

I mean, it's the same with women. I've known women that were the victims of sexual coercion that sort of shrugged it off with a, "yeah that sucked." For others, it can ruin their lives.

It's not completely dissimilar from any other crime. How many of us have gotten physically attacked, but forgot about it soon after. How many of us have gotten physically attacked, and have never forgotten it?

mattyrm wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

This is basically the old "you can't rape sluts" argument but for men.

Rented Tritium wrote: Are you serious or trolling?

I'm guessing he's being serious, but only because he's speaking from his own view point.

If a person is willing to have sex with any woman... well... you can't rape the willing.

There was a point in my life I used refered to it as the community college rule: I'll take anybody!

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I see how a man can be pressured by a woman, or even drugged or coerced by a woman, but, considering you need to get the big fella to stand to attention, surely it is physically impossible for a woman to "rape" a man if we are talking about normal sex.

Wait, drugged and coerced doesn't count as rape to you? Uhhhhhhh....

Rape does not imply force. It just implies sex without consent. Men can absolutely 100% be raped. Also, the body responds independently of the mind. Physical arousal still happens in a lot of rapes.

Well, alright then Ill try a different approach. Does it actually bother a bloke?

I mean, If I was walking home from the pub and I got shot with a tranq dart, woke up tied to a table an hour later whereupon a big fat ginger bird with teeth like a witch-doctors necklace showed me a bizarre selection of pornography ala "A clockwork Orange" and then bounced on me till she got her rocks off before fleeing the scene, I think Id probably just go home for a long shower and then go back to the pub the next day..

"you lot aren't going to fething believe what some honking bird made me do yesterday!"

Are you serious or trolling?

He like I, are just saying you're full of gak.
I'm sure it occurs, but WTF ever.

Frazzled wrote:
He like I, are jjust saying you're full of gak.

Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.


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I agree though that women raping men is socially distinct in most cases and has different causes and different solutions.

So in many ways it's a different conversation.

Rented Tritium wrote:
Are you serious or trolling?

Well the entire thing is intended humorously, hence the way it was written "sobbed while she rode me like an angry grizzly bear scratching its back against a tree!?"" I mean... come on..

But I am actually serious yeah, why would it be trolling? That's how I would deal with it If it happened to me, I genuinely wouldn't give a flying gak.

I'm not saying it wouldn't disturb some people, but no it wouldn't bother me at all. I actually have a tale of sexual abuse that I found most amusing, and Albatross has heard it, but, well, this isn't the place for it.

I'm making light of the situation for a chuckle, but if you insist on acting like my mother in law I will spell it out for you.

Ok, it is theoretically possible for a man to be raped by a woman, but because it would require an incredibly bizzare chain of events, and is so ridiculously rare in comparison it isn't really worth talking about, because this thread is primarily about women being raped.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
He like I, are jjust saying you're full of gak.

Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree though that women raping men is socially distinct in most cases and has different causes and different solutions.

So in many ways it's a different conversation.

So your comparing all men to sluts now?

Rented Tritium wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
He like I, are jjust saying you're full of gak.

Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree though that women raping men is socially distinct in most cases and has different causes and different solutions.

So in many ways it's a different conversation.

AS noted, I'm sure it might theoretically occur. But its a nonissue compared to the larger picture.

Castiel wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
He like I, are jjust saying you're full of gak.

Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree though that women raping men is socially distinct in most cases and has different causes and different solutions.

So in many ways it's a different conversation.

So your comparing all men to sluts now?

What? How did you get that from my post?

No, the logic that men can't be raped because they won't mind is the same logic that makes people think that they can do anything because a girl is slutty.

I'm saying that the idea "men can't be raped" and "sluts can't be raped" share the same logical construct.

Can you take this side distraction somwehere else?

Rented Tritium wrote:Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.

From that sentence, it sounded like you were saying all guys are sluts. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick!

Castiel wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:Saying men can't be raped is like saying that slutty women can't be raped.

From that sentence, it sounded like you were saying all guys are sluts. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick!

I understand how you would think that just reading that post, but most of the time it's important to read the quoted post/ongoing conversation for context.

I should have quoted more stuff going back to make it clearer.

Ok Ok, yeah lets get off this topic, and Tritium you can get off my balls. I was only fething around..

(But seriously.. I really wouldn't care if I got racked and raped by a honking bird)

mattyrm wrote: Ok Ok, yeah lets get off this topic, and Tritium you can get off my balls. I was only fething around..

(But seriously.. I really wouldn't care if I got racked and raped by a honking bird)

I think you'd care if you got racked, by anyone. OWIE!

I think the thing to remember with rape is that the reason people get away with it has a lot more to do with social pressures than physical force.

Strange things happen in emotionally abusive relationships that make people feel like they have to stay. Strange things happen in tight-knit friend circles that make the victim avoid reporting it because of what it would do to them socially. There are a lot of forces at play besides "rapist is stronger than victim" that get ignored.

If it were as simple as some people claim, it wouldn't actually be a problem, now would it.

Rented Tritium wrote:I think the thing to remember with rape is that the reason people get away with it has a lot more to do with social pressures than physical force.

Strange things happen in emotionally abusive relationships that make people feel like they have to stay. Strange things happen in tight-knit friend circles that make the victim avoid reporting it because of what it would do to them socially. There are a lot of forces at play besides "rapist is stronger than victim" that get ignored.

If it were as simple as some people claim, it wouldn't actually be a problem, now would it.

This is an insightful post.