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2012/01/09 16:26:53
Subject: Re:How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
With my Christian upbringing, evolution was viewed as simply out of the question to the point that we couldn't watch Ninja Turtles because it taught evolution... somehow. My parents are a bit more open-minded about it now but anecdotal-ly , many people I knew saw it as an extreme form of compromise.
Worship me.
2012/01/09 16:45:01
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
The way I see it, people who think that evolution contradicts the bible are basically underestimating their god, because why would an omnipotent god be limited to blatantly obvious and miraculous acts when s/he could very well simply set the quantum state of the universe at the start so that it would eventually produce human beings naturally?
So much less work and well within the power of a being that is supposedly all-powerful.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/09 16:45:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/01/09 17:00:32
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random. Many religions teach that everything that happens, whether bad or good is for a reason... so yeah...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2012/01/09 17:01:34
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random. Many religions teach that everything that happens, whether bad or good is for a reason... so yeah...
Is evolution random?
Roll a D6 on the evolution chart...
I always thought it was reactive. It needs something to drive it, surely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/09 17:08:59
How can 300 years of scientific progess since the renaissance be right when it stands against the weight of a book written by desert dwelling cow sacrificing zealots.
Mithrians?
Your knowledge of obscure religious tradition is heartening. I now have hope for America's future.
OK, for one I'm British and two how is this for a whacky theory based on obscure knowledge:
Christianity developed from Judaism which was borm from the worship of the Ahten in Egypt. This religion was the subject of what can only be the first religious pogrom wiping a whole city from the face of the earth (only recently rediscovered) and outlawing the very mention of the Pharo Ankhenaten who founded the religion.
Moses was simply the guy who lead the remaining faithful on a dash for survival.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Medium of Death wrote:
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random. Many religions teach that everything that happens, whether bad or good is for a reason... so yeah...
Is evolution random?
Roll a D6 on the evolution chart...
I always thought it was reactive. It needs something to drive it, surely.
No it is not absolutely random.
Would you like a simplified version of how it works on a genetic level?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/09 17:11:24
More have died in the name of normality than ever for strangeness. Beware of normal people.
He who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes; He who does not is a fool forever. (Confucius).
Medium of Death wrote:I always thought it was reactive.
It is not random, you're right about that.
The members of the species that participate in reproduction propogate their genes to the next generation. The ones most capable of gathering mates for reproduction thus generally are more successful in propogating their genes and influencing the flow of evolution.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/01/09 17:36:37
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
How can 300 years of scientific progess since the renaissance be right when it stands against the weight of a book written by desert dwelling cow sacrificing zealots.
Mithrians?
Your knowledge of obscure religious tradition is heartening. I now have hope for America's future.
OK, for one I'm British.
And back to the drawing board.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/01/09 17:40:07
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
Medium of Death wrote:I always thought it was reactive.
It is not random, you're right about that.
The members of the species that participate in reproduction propogate their genes to the next generation. The ones most capable of gathering mates for reproduction thus generally are more successful in propogating their genes and influencing the flow of evolution.
There is an environmental level to it. As you encounter environmental factors different genes become expressed as a result. These then become strengthened and less vulnerable to change when a male produces a gamete (sperm) or when formed in the feotus of a female. In either case around 60-70 minor random changes occur. This means that you are evolved to deal with the environmetal stressors of your grandparents.
More have died in the name of normality than ever for strangeness. Beware of normal people.
He who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes; He who does not is a fool forever. (Confucius).
Mannahnin wrote:Might as well ask them if the Theory of Gravity should be taught. As others have mentioned. Or whether the "God holds everything down" theory should be taught alongside it.
haven't we learned yet? Don't spoil it by talking.
EDIT: Oh look, its another "creationists are evil and dumb huh huh" thread. Well it must be Monday.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/09 18:01:54
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/01/09 17:54:08
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
more like great great grandparents. Evolution takes place over dozens of generations, not just one or two.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/01/09 18:00:33
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
Proof of evolution: London underground has its own species of mosquito that has independently evolved to the conditions. It is a distinct species that can not breed with other native species.
More have died in the name of normality than ever for strangeness. Beware of normal people.
He who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes; He who does not is a fool forever. (Confucius).
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: "creationists are evil and dumb huh huh" thread. Well it must be Monday.
I've never heard anyone describe them as evil.
Dumb, of course. If you dont know basic high school biology you are by definition a thick bastard and I am entitled to laugh at you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sonophos wrote:Proof of evolution: London underground has its own species of mosquito that has independently evolved to the conditions. It is a distinct species that can not breed with other native species.
There are gak loads of examples of rock solid evidence. Literally hundreds, and evolution has more evidence than gravity. But people don't talk about this very much because it lends credence to the ignorant feth wits that make up the Creationist lobby.
Nylon-eating bacteria is probably the most famous observed evolution though, due to Nylon being invented in the 1930's.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/09 20:27:42
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:28:41
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2012/01/09 20:29:23
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:30:49
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I hope not...
If i did it was cunningly disguised...
More likely either i have utterly failed to grasp it or my teacher didn't explain it very well...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2012/01/09 20:42:04
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I hope not...
If i did it was cunningly disguised...
More likely either i have utterly failed to grasp it or my teacher didn't explain it very well...
Yeah, I wasn't very interested at school either.. shame education is only mandatory when your at the age when it's not interesting to you because your too busy chasing girls and playing football.
I only got interested in biology in my twenties when I was stuck in places like Iraq and I didnt have anything at all to look at during my time off other than the books in the unit library.
Im a soldier not a teacher, so ill keep it short, but there are several ways of showing that it's non-random. The most simple one can be fit into three sentences.
In any population individual organisms will have a wide range of (random) mutations, and say a small percentage of those individuals have mutations that decrease their fitness and make them gakker at their jobs, they will be selected against with the result being that their genes are taken out of the population’s genome.
Another small percentage of those individuals will have mutations that increase their fitness, and they will be selected for, with the result being that their genes are increased in the population’s genome. So over time, we see that a population will become increasingly adapted to its environment, because positive mutations are selected for and negative mutations are selected against.
Thus we have non random evolution.
A good example would be me, because I am fething awesome at everything. Women love me and thus I shall sire thousands of children, but ugly fethers with wonky faces who look like they drink sat under the dart board wont have any kids. Our faces might have been pretty random, but what happens when we start talking to chicks? They all ignore him and flock to me, and that's not random.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:42:43
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
corpsesarefun wrote:Evolution itself is random but natural selection is adaptive was my understanding.
Yeah mutations are, but the evolution bit is what makes it non random.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:44:02
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I didn't. It is random, in the form of random mutation. there is no "design" in the process. The ones that are slightly better fit to survive indeed do survive.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/01/09 20:45:29
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I didn't. It is random, in the form of random mutation. there is no "design" in the process. The ones that are slightly better fit to survive indeed do survive.
Yeah, so its not random then is it?!
If I roll ten dice, but then I pick the 5 highest and use them for my to wound rolls, that's not random. That's me picking the best gak out!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:46:25
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
corpsesarefun wrote:Evolution itself is random but natural selection is adaptive was my understanding.
Yeah mutations are, but the evolution bit is what makes it non random.
Ahh...
This may have been where we have fallen apart.
Natural selection is the process of the indivdual best adapted for survival gets to pass its genes along. Right?
Whereas evolution is the random mutations that may or may not be beneficial?
Either way this thread is an awful lot of fun...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2012/01/09 20:47:20
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
Fafnir wrote:Well, natural and sexual selection are just that, forms of selection.
Mutations are random, but can be carried through natural or sexual selection.
Exactly, so the end result, the evolution, is not random.
Mutations are, evolution isn't.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
purplefood wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
corpsesarefun wrote:Evolution itself is random but natural selection is adaptive was my understanding.
Yeah mutations are, but the evolution bit is what makes it non random.
Ahh...
This may have been where we have fallen apart.
Natural selection is the process of the indivdual best adapted for survival gets to pass its genes along. Right?
Whereas evolution is the random mutations that may or may not be beneficial?
Either way this thread is an awful lot of fun...
It is when teacher rewards you with grenades!
Actually.. I'm not smart enough to be teacher, ill phone Albatross and get him to take over.
I don't think he has grenades though...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/09 20:48:31
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:49:04
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I didn't. It is random, in the form of random mutation. there is no "design" in the process. The ones that are slightly better fit to survive indeed do survive.
Yeah, so its not random then is it?!
If I roll ten dice, but then I pick the 5 highest and use them for my to wound rolls, that's not random. That's me picking the best gak out!
the process is random. You picking out the best ones is intelligent design. OMG Matty's a creationist!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/01/09 20:51:51
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I didn't. It is random, in the form of random mutation. there is no "design" in the process. The ones that are slightly better fit to survive indeed do survive.
Yeah, so its not random then is it?!
If I roll ten dice, but then I pick the 5 highest and use them for my to wound rolls, that's not random. That's me picking the best gak out!
the process is random. You picking out the best ones is intelligent design. OMG Matty's a creationist!
How did we get here?!
I told you I'm not a teacher..
Ok I'm off to worship Jesus.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/01/09 20:57:25
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2012/01/09 20:58:04
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
Matty you cant kick an image in the crotch and yell obscenities and call that worshiping...that warfare. I know they sound similar but it sounds like someone has lead you astray...again.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/01/09 20:59:07
Subject: How can this possibly actually be a point of contention?
purplefood wrote:I think the main problem most religions/religious people have with evolution is that it is random.
It is the exact opposite of random mate.
I got taught it was random and i'm sticking to it...
You didn't go to a faith school did you?
I didn't. It is random, in the form of random mutation. there is no "design" in the process. The ones that are slightly better fit to survive indeed do survive.
Yeah, so its not random then is it?!
If I roll ten dice, but then I pick the 5 highest and use them for my to wound rolls, that's not random. That's me picking the best gak out!
the process is random. You picking out the best ones is intelligent design. OMG Matty's a creationist!
How did we get here?!
I told you I'm not a teacher..
Ok I'm off to worship Jesus.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
More have died in the name of normality than ever for strangeness. Beware of normal people. 
