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Except C'Tan are not Independent Characters...

I would agree that you would get a KP for each.

@Electro: I would disagree. There is no precedent for a model which is not the model which is on the table. Zogwart does not create a proxy, it removes a model from play and replaces it with another model.

Electro wrote:

pretre wrote:Zogwart's Curse does RFP, it just doesn't use those words.

No it dosn't. It dose not remove from play. It changes the chacicter in to a squig. The rules and the flufff are quite clear. The charicter is not replaced by a squig, the model is to represent the fact that she it has been turned i. To a squig. If this is not the case what it she point in this power? The whole point of the power is it changes an IC in to a squig. He can turn gods (c'tan) in to squigs.

Is it any IC or any Character? C'Tan aren't ICs.
Is St. Celestine still on the table after a successful Zogwort's Curse?

No.

But What triggers MI


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

Electro wrote:

pretre wrote:Zogwart's Curse does RFP, it just doesn't use those words.

No it dosn't. It dose not remove from play. It changes the chacicter in to a squig. The rules and the flufff are quite clear. The charicter is not replaced by a squig, the model is to represent the fact that she it has been turned i. To a squig. If this is not the case what it she point in this power? The whole point of the power is it changes an IC in to a squig. He can turn gods (c'tan) in to squigs.

Is it any IC or any Character? C'Tan aren't ICs.
Is St. Celestine still on the table after a successful Zogwort's Curse?

I think he was referring to the old Necron codex in whre Ctan were ics

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:No.

But What triggers MI

Anything that removes from play or removes from play as a casualty.

If she's not on the table, she's been removed from play.

edit: And I'm pretty sure they weren't ICs in the old necron codex either - but that's irrelevant. Feel free not to respond.

We're really getting somewhere now!

rigeld2 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:No.

But What triggers MI

Anything that removes from play or removes from play as a casualty.

If she's not on the table, she's been removed from play.

edit: And I'm pretty sure they weren't ICs in the old necron codex either - but that's irrelevant. Feel free not to respond.

Dont worry i looked that up before, the old Ctan were ICs but had the above all others special rule that said they cant join any unit.

So again tell me Rigeld2 how do you equate Replace with RFP

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:No.

But What triggers MI

Anything that removes from play or removes from play as a casualty.

If she's not on the table, she's been removed from play.

So again tell me Rigeld2 how do you equate Replace with RFP

Is St. Celestine still on the table?

again no. a squig is

But what you are doing is changing the wording of zogwarts curse into something similer to Boon of mutation or Gift of chaos.

Which say remove then replace.

Again if i took your model and performed magic on it that morphed it into a squig right before your very eyes, would you say she still comes back?

cause that is what happeing, also if i pick her up off the table to move her she left the table do i get a counter?

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:Again if i took your model and performed magic on it that morphed it into a squig right before your very eyes, would you say she still comes back?

cause that is what happeing, also if i pick her up off the table to move her she left the table do i get a counter?

For the last time, you can't do magic. So don't bring up the magic argument. lol

And no, because she is still in play when you continue to play her.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:again no. a squig is

And the squid is not St. Celestine, right?
So has she left play, or is she still in it?

But what you are doing is changing the wording of zogwarts curse into something similer to Boon of mutation or Gift of chaos.

Which say remove then replace.

It's not physically possible to just replace.

Again if i took your model and performed magic on it that morphed it into a squig right before your very eyes, would you say she still comes back?

Well first we'd go make millions of dollars if you could do it on command... and at that point you can have that win.

cause that is what happeing

Really? I lose my St. Celestine model and get a Squig? That sucks!

also if i pick her up off the table to move her she left the table do i get a counter?

Has she been removed from play?

@rigeld2: lol. Good times.

pretre wrote:@rigeld2: lol. Good times.

I do what I can.

Seeing as were going in circles, let just agree to roll a dice on it.

Necrosis wrote:Seeing as were going in circles, let just agree to roll a dice on it.

+1million. I suggested that a page or two ago but was labeled as crazy. CRAZY, I tell you!

Now, I'll show them. I'll show them all!

pretre wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Seeing as were going in circles, let just agree to roll a dice on it.

+1million. I suggested that a page or two ago but was labeled as crazy. CRAZY, I tell you!

Now, I'll show them. I'll show them all!

That's because you are crazy.
And you can show those nice young men in the nice white coats.
They'll be happy to help you.

rigeld2 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Seeing as were going in circles, let just agree to roll a dice on it.

+1million. I suggested that a page or two ago but was labeled as crazy. CRAZY, I tell you!

Now, I'll show them. I'll show them all!

That's because you are crazy.
And you can show those nice young men in the nice white coats.
They'll be happy to help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d0QND_24DE&feature=related

The Words RFP are not used. anywhere in Zogwarts curse.

There for at the time St.c is turned into a Squig she cant come back. You are adding words that are not written in the Ork codex or in any FAQ.

You are implying and inferring but RAW she is a squig with no abilities, unless she some how retroactively gains them back some way.

What happens when an EL model is squiggled? here is a hint
(since it became a squig he would lose EL )

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:The Words RFP are not used. anywhere in Zogwarts curse.

I've never said they were.

There for at the time St.c is turned into a Squig she cant come back. You are adding words that are not written in the Ork codex or in any FAQ.

I'm adding nothing.

You are implying and inferring but RAW she is a squig with no abilities, unless she some how retroactively gains them back some way.

False. She is not a squig - St. Celestine is removed and a Squig is put in her place (you know, the definition of replace).
If St. Celestine is not currently in play, has she been removed from play?

What happens when an EL model is squiggled? here is a hint
(since it became a squig he would lose EL )

... and? EL only works on RFPaaC, and ZC most certainly doesn't do that. Also, irrelevant to the current thread.

No she been replaced from play.

When a model is squiged it does not count as being removed or killed, therefore no kps are given.

Agreeing with THE_GODLYNESS here; it seems quite clear the model is in no way killed/destroyed/a casualty (etc.), so she can't come back from being replaced.

Those that think she's counts as 'killed'...does that mean you feel the Squig model is actually 'deployed' or 'spawned'? Just curious...

Can someone quote MI as I cant see how they think they can use it, we already have zogs rule here so for those that think that she can come back please quote her rule as to me it pretty clear that she cant come back

If St Celestine is killed, place a marker. She can then roll to come back. The FAQ added that she can use it on Removed From Play abilities.

Happyjew wrote:If St Celestine is killed, place a marker. She can then roll to come back. The FAQ added that she can use it on Removed From Play abilities.

Sorry but whats is the exact quote

Miraculous Intervention wrote:Every time Celestine is removed as a casualty, place a counter to mark the spot where she "died". Roll a D6...

FAQ wrote:Q: Can Saint Celestine use her Miraculous Intervention
special rule against attacks that remove models from
play? (White Dwarf, August 2011, Page 103)
A: Yes.

There are two types of attacks. Attacks that kill by dealing wounds, and attacks that kill by just removing the model from play. JotWW, Gift of Chaos, Zog's Curse are "remove from play" attacks, whether they use those exact words or not (note that the FAQ text does not emphasize or quote "remove models from play"). As such, Celestine comes back whenever she is removed from play.

"Every time St Celestine is removed as a casualty, place a counter to mark the spot where she 'died'. That's the key phrase, the rest just describes how to roll etc. Not much there, right, But wait, there's an FAQ that goes with this!

Q: Can Saint Celestine use her Miraculous Intervention
special rule against attacks that remove models from
play? (White Dwarf, August 2011, Page 103)
A: Yes.

So, bottom line, if you squig St Celestine, is she still in play? If the answer is NO, then she gets MI. Simple as that, really.

Right, some of us claim that since she magically transformed into a squig, she IS in play, albeit with a new stat line, wargear, and special rules (kinda like Redmaw from IA11). Others claim, that since she no longer affects the game she has been removed from play.

OK, there's a model on the table. Is it St Celestine or is it a squig? If it's not St Celestine, she's been removed and cues MI.

Happyjew wrote:Right, some of us claim that since she magically transformed into a squig, she IS in play, albeit with a new stat line, wargear, and special rules (kinda like Redmaw from IA11). Others claim, that since she no longer affects the game she has been removed from play.

Thanks Happyjew, I would roll off on it but I am in the camp she becomes a squig then loses her MI rule before MI kicks in.

don_mondo wrote:OK, there's a model on the table. Is it St Celestine or is it a squig? If it's not St Celestine, she's been removed and cues MI.

Has no been removed from play. She has been replaced from play.