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Allies was a bad idea in 2nd edition and it's still bad in 6th. A lazy, piss poor attempt to balance the armies. "Oh your Tau army sucks balls? Just include some DE Incubi!"

If I still played, I would refuse to take allies on the grounds that it makes the game feel hackneyed and makes the whole story aspect of the game feel contrived.
Without factional barriers, there are no factions. Just a mishmash of various FotM units.
I don't want to win or lose a game because some pedantic schmuck played some ridiculous-ass combination of armies.

Archonate wrote:Without factional barriers, there are no factions.

There are still factional barriers. You're limited in who you can ally with, in the number of allied units, and in the way they integrate into your army.

The barriers have simply been redefined.

Fair to say. I suppose I was exaggerating.
It's just that one of the things I loved about 40k was how intolerant and self-serving the 40k armies were...
Now they're getting all politically correct, trusting, and open minded. Reaching across party lines and all that.
Slaanesh offering the hand of friendship to DE. Eldar hosting an extravagant banquet on their craftworld for their Ork guests who helped repel some Tyranids. The examples could go on and on.

The universe just becomes less grimdark...

Uh...
Edlar getting the Orks utterly slaughtered so that none of the Edlar have to die.

Chaos Marines sendng recently converted IG guardsmen to be nom'd by the Tyranids.

IG Commander using the Tau firepower and taking the fact that the Tau are busy to move his troops into a proper position and kill the exhausted xenos once they're done.

You're grossly blowing this out of proportion, imo.

Just because they fight together doesn't mean they're super best friends.

Archonate wrote:Now they're getting all politically correct, trusting, and open minded. Reaching across party lines and all that.

Except that they're not.

Being allies is not the same as being friends. And not all of the available allies trust each other... hence the 3 different levels of alliance in the rules.


Unlikely alliances have been a part of the 40K background for as long as there has been a background for 40K.

I will most likely NOT be allying with anyone. I think the Allies as a whole is a simple plan by GW to market more minis and break game balance even further.

I will continue to lose with my Tau. I will die to flyers since I have no counter and I will die to everyone else spamming mixed lists.


YAY I cant wait.

I will continue to lose with my Tau. I will die to flyers since I have no counter and I will die to everyone else spamming mixed lists.

Tau have plenty of twin linked and seeker missles that hit flyers on BS5 (even if it takes a 6 to hit it with a markerlight. )

There is one point I think we're all forgettng when we think of the allies.

The games take place in a specific moment in time.

When you place your Orks and IG together on your side of the table, that's a battle that is currently happening.

Then your opponent puts down his Tyranids on his table edge, thats the sudden surprise ambush bug menace!

Suddenly your Orks have a more interesting fight on their hands.

Your guardsmen just need to shoot their way out... while Orks die.

Sure Chaos marines and Daemons fit well together, Marines of all flavors working together.

Just because something is happening on the table doesn't mean you have to come up with a crazy reason two factions are on one side of a battlefeild.

I know you can come up with all sorts of outlandish, unlikely justifications for alliances to 'make sense', but at the end of the day when the battle is over, there's an unshakable feeling that your minis are high-fiving their allies, no matter what factions they are. Those Necrons are gyrating with those DE Wyches. Those Tau are draping medals of valor around the necks of those Bloodletters. Your Assassin, hand-in-hand with a Howling Banshee, just wandered off to a secluded copse.

Even aside from GW wanting everybody to own multiple codices and various contingents of several other armies, this concept just feels so... Cheesy. IMHO.

Archonate wrote:I know you can come up with all sorts of outlandish, unlikely justifications for alliances to 'make sense', but at the end of the day when the battle is over, there's an unshakable feeling that your minis are high-fiving their allies, no matter what factions they are. Those Necrons are gyrating with those DE Wyches. Those Tau are draping medals of valor around the necks of those Bloodletters. Your Assassin, hand-in-hand with a Howling Banshee, just wandered off to a secluded copse.

Even aside from GW wanting everybody to own multiple codices and various contingents of several other armies, this concept just feels so... Cheesy. IMHO.

So stop looking at it like that. I have no idea where your 'unshakable feeling' is coming from, but if it's your perception of how the allies are interacting that is interfering with your ability to enjoy the possibilities it opens up, change your perception.

There is nothing inherent to a temporary alliance that suggests in any way that those allies will still get along when their common enemy is overcome. Even ignoring 40K, science fiction and fantasy are littered with allies of convenience who don't much like each other but see a mutual benefit in both pointing the hurty ends of their weapons at their mutual enemy before turning on each other.

Yeah... well that's like your opinion man, I see it as the complete opposite.

I'm with Archonate on this one. For some armies, allies may make sense. However, I am sickened by the thought of including a farseer in a Dark Eldar army. That seems to be the most popular ally pick for DE I've heard so far and it's starting to irritate me.

It literally makes no sense. I'd be more comfortable with an Eldar army including a few Kabalites as "Corsairs" or what have you, but a farseer running alongside a bunch of true blue dark eldar is just stupid. There should be some convention against it.

How does it not make sense for a Farseer to be fighting alongside Dark Eldar? The 40K background for 20 years now has included mention of Farseers forging alliances with whoever suits their current needs. And from 20 seconds flicking through the Dark Eldar Codex, I came across a fluff piece talking about Dark Eldar aiding Craftworld Iyanden against an Ork Waaagh!.


This isn't something new that GW have introduced to break the fluff. This stuff has always been in the fluff, it just hasn't been in the game for a while.

Archonate wrote: Allies was a bad idea in 2nd edition and it's still bad in 6th. A lazy, piss poor attempt to balance the armies. "Oh your Tau army sucks balls? Just include some DE Incubi!"

If I still played, I would refuse to take allies on the grounds that it makes the game feel hackneyed and makes the whole story aspect of the game feel contrived.
Without factional barriers, there are no factions. Just a mishmash of various FotM units.
I don't want to win or lose a game because some pedantic schmuck played some ridiculous-ass combination of armies.

since you don't play you don't have to worry about winning or losing, why are you posting here then? lol

with my wolves, kind of in between

Like IG, but they don't really provide anything I don't already have....I don't need more firepower.
Necrons don't have any draw for me, although the doom scythe and gauss are pretty powerful
Blood Angels...death company with astrorath seems like a good deal with rage rule. May do this...

I really just want to field an Inquisitor and Retinue with my IG, but considering I'll need some troops, I'll have to get some GK as well :(

Again, CSM and my Daemons will unite to really go and get my own Black Crusade going on in my FLGS

Banzaimash wrote:I really just want to field an Inquisitor and Retinue with my IG, but considering I'll need some troops, I'll have to get some GK as well :(

Not if you take Coteaz as your Inquisitor. You could take a second squad of Henchmen then.

The Eldar Craftworld of Ikkar'os and the Dark Eldar Cabal of the Broken Sun are both protecting the Maiden World of So'revi for disparate reasons. The Maiden world is home to a particularly large world spirit, and is a thriving 1,2G biosphere some 1,7AU from it's blue sun, largely habitable due to the planet's fierce core activity heating the surface.
In orbit around this world lies two moons, one of which has a large webway portal situated in the center of an Eldar Corsair shipyard. While the Craftworlders nominally adhere to the paths, the strong relationship ties with the Corsair and constant intermingling has lead to what some would call a break down of the paths while others would say that the number of available paths have expanded greatly. Needless to say, Alaitoc would find Ikkar'os decadent and little more than a mobile Corsair hive.
What is clear is that the craftworld sees the guardianship of So'revi as it's primary duty, being situated so close to the Eye of Terror, and the moon, benefiting hugely from the protection of the craftworld, gives the Broken Sun a highly convenient and perfectly safe raiding base at the expense of simply remaining polite towards their weaker cousins - for have they not benefited beyond what a Kabal could ordinarily hope for raiding Imperial shipping routes with impunity? Having a Corsair fleet cover their tracks and a craftworld constantly manipulating pursuers from following is beyond what is merely "convenient" and border-lining "brilliant"!

I will ally with Tau.

Banzaimash wrote:I really just want to field an Inquisitor and Retinue with my IG, but considering I'll need some troops, I'll have to get some GK as well :(

Not at all, coteaz (and if you dont like him then a custom one) would make his retinue a troops choice.

Archonate wrote:I know you can come up with all sorts of outlandish, unlikely justifications for alliances to 'make sense', but at the end of the day when the battle is over, there's an unshakable feeling that your minis are high-fiving their allies, no matter what factions they are. Those Necrons are gyrating with those DE Wyches. Those Tau are draping medals of valor around the necks of those Bloodletters. Your Assassin, hand-in-hand with a Howling Banshee, just wandered off to a secluded copse.

Even aside from GW wanting everybody to own multiple codices and various contingents of several other armies, this concept just feels so... Cheesy. IMHO.

Have you even read that section of the book? Because there are clear limitations to whom can ally with whom you know. And sicne you are no longer playing why do spend time moaning and groaning on here then. And as for rather weak arguments I have litel good to say. I think its great that GW doise this, it opens up new doors to great narrative campgains and such.

I am going to be adding some Grey Knights into my Guard army, however I have decided it will be strictly Inquisition and henchmen. No actual Knights.

I am going on the fluff basis of a redgiment of guardsmen comandered by an Inquisitor.

Mahtamori wrote:The Eldar Craftworld of Ikkar'os and the Dark Eldar Cabal of the Broken Sun are both protecting the Maiden World of So'revi for disparate reasons. The Maiden world is home to a particularly large world spirit, and is a thriving 1,2G biosphere some 1,7AU from it's blue sun, largely habitable due to the planet's fierce core activity heating the surface.
In orbit around this world lies two moons, one of which has a large webway portal situated in the center of an Eldar Corsair shipyard. While the Craftworlders nominally adhere to the paths, the strong relationship ties with the Corsair and constant intermingling has lead to what some would call a break down of the paths while others would say that the number of available paths have expanded greatly. Needless to say, Alaitoc would find Ikkar'os decadent and little more than a mobile Corsair hive.
What is clear is that the craftworld sees the guardianship of So'revi as it's primary duty, being situated so close to the Eye of Terror, and the moon, benefiting hugely from the protection of the craftworld, gives the Broken Sun a highly convenient and perfectly safe raiding base at the expense of simply remaining polite towards their weaker cousins - for have they not benefited beyond what a Kabal could ordinarily hope for raiding Imperial shipping routes with impunity? Having a Corsair fleet cover their tracks and a craftworld constantly manipulating pursuers from following is beyond what is merely "convenient" and border-lining "brilliant"!

I will ally with Tau.

Very nice work - enjoyed reading that and will add to some campaign stuff I am doing

I just want an Inquisitor and retinue with my marines. Just for the fun you can have with modelling them. Luckily taking Coteaz means you can do that without having to take Grey Knights, but I'll be using another model as a counts as Coteaz..

I think i'm going to ally my SW with my self created chapter called the Dread Lords. And then ally my CSM with my vast daemon army.

Trondheim wrote:

Archonate wrote:I know you can come up with all sorts of outlandish, unlikely justifications for alliances to 'make sense', but at the end of the day when the battle is over, there's an unshakable feeling that your minis are high-fiving their allies, no matter what factions they are. Those Necrons are gyrating with those DE Wyches. Those Tau are draping medals of valor around the necks of those Bloodletters. Your Assassin, hand-in-hand with a Howling Banshee, just wandered off to a secluded copse.

Even aside from GW wanting everybody to own multiple codices and various contingents of several other armies, this concept just feels so... Cheesy. IMHO.

Have you even read that section of the book? Because there are clear limitations to whom can ally with whom you know. And sicne you are no longer playing why do spend time moaning and groaning on here then. And as for rather weak arguments I have litel good to say. I think its great that GW doise this, it opens up new doors to great narrative campgains and such.

If he doesnt play anymore and wants to make weak rants and whines why are we answering him?

Il agree though, while not all the alliances make sense, its a damn tabletop rpg, things like this a bit of imagination goes a long way. Hell it does anyway with your little army men going pew pew. Even the orks, they could be mercenaries (forget the clan name), or as was said above they could have been fighting your primary army when the new threat shows up and they say sod it, get the new gitz. Eldar are manipulative schemers, even if they dont ally with a force, whos to say they arnt tricking them into fighting their enemies (DOW2?). Its just the understated alliances that annoy me, like youd think the SOB, BT and GK would have a bit of a better bond, and with the ammount of "deathwatch" SM armies them too (the plan for my allies anyway). Hell even the lack of nid allies annoys me. GW harp on about it being a game where you get out of it what you put in, forging a narrative blagh blagh blagh. Yet i asked on their FB at the start about lack of nid love, they said "whod want to ally with a nid, theyd just eat ya". I brought up genestealer cults, nid parasites and virus controlling and mutating a force etc. They deleted my original comment. Dont get me wrong, i like that there giving more area for more custom fluff, but...well yeah il stop there before i start going in circles

I honestly fail to see the problem here.

Each allied unit you use, takes points from your main force, it's further limited by the Allied FoC. For the most part they'll act like two seperate armies with little to know synergy, or need to play keep-away to avoid the risk of doing nothing for a turn.

Nothing is making you take Allies, and points used on them, are points you can't use on something else.

In my initial plan for a Webway Portal Army, to take an Autarch to make things come in reliably was basically a 177pt tax to make it a viable list. That's 1 and a half squads of Wracks, or half a squad of Grotesques, or a Talos and a half I can't take otherwise. (maybe not the best example, but that's still a reasonable chunk of models, ignoring that I can't actually do this list viably now....)

Glorioski wrote:I just want an Inquisitor and retinue with my marines. Just for the fun you can have with modelling them. Luckily taking Coteaz means you can do that without having to take Grey Knights, but I'll be using another model as a counts as Coteaz..

Is what im planning to do for my 1k allies list, count his retinue as troops, then just my termies as gk "troops". haha kind of a single troop choice, but not so to speak xD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ovion wrote:I honestly fail to see the problem here.

Each allied unit you use, takes points from your main force, it's further limited by the Allied FoC. For the most part they'll act like two seperate armies with little to know synergy, or need to play keep-away to avoid the risk of doing nothing for a turn.

Nothing is making you take Allies, and points used on them, are points you can't use on something else.

In my initial plan for a Webway Portal Army, to take an Autarch to make things come in reliably was basically a 177pt tax to make it a viable list. That's 1 and a half squads of Wracks, or half a squad of Grotesques, or a Talos and a half I can't take otherwise. (maybe not the best example, but that's still a reasonable chunk of models, ignoring that I can't actually do this list viably now....)

Not necessarily a lack of synergy, saw someone posting a standalone nob bike list as 500pts of allies, with a gunline IG or something would work well, they can sit back and shoot, and the enemy can choose between rushing the guardsmen of worry about the bikes coming up his flank. Even the one eye open rule (cant remember if it apllies to IG with orks) wouldnt be a problem, they bikes would WANT to be right in their face and keeping the troopers at the back. Or me using some SM sniperscouts to keep my vindi company, hell when i get round to doing a new vindicare model i may even model them as temple initiates (baby vindis ).

It all depends on what allies exactly your choosing. Grey knights generaly lack range and we have one of the worst devastator equivalents in the game cus of range and competing for those heavy slots. Now we can have those slots stay free, and still have an effective dev squad from another dex for the fire support.

I dont get allies... or bastions.. or emplacements... or fliers.... .. .. ..... further proof GW hates tyranids

StarHunter25 wrote:I dont get allies... or bastions.. or emplacements... or fliers.... .. .. ..... further proof GW hates tyranids

No, no. Only the Imperium hates the nids.
And Kayoss.
And both Eldars.
And sometimes orks.
...
...
...
And just about everything GW ever made...

I'm going to ally my IG with my SOB, so I can actually use my SOB again. They got screwed over when inquisitorial stormtroopers were removed as troop choices, and I only had one squad of battle sisters, so yeah.