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insaniak wrote:

4oursword wrote:Also, Insaniak: Has your Avatar always been animated?

For around 10 years now, yes

Was absolutely terrified for a moment :O

I think that means that it is working.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

Ghaz wrote:UT doesn't really matter to me, but saying that the rules that tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has does not say that you can change the weapon to what kind of power weapon you want. Its like someone telling you to look at a car to determine what color it is and you take it as permission to repaint the car in whatever color you want.

The car (power weapon) may be blue(axe) or green(sword). The dealer only sells green ones but since the law allows me to drive a blue car it would not be illegal to paint one blue.

Well... your analogy, other than being terribly convoluted, seems to verify that it is ok. Because it IS ok to repaint your car.

Except the rule in question on page 61 says nothing other than look at the model to determine what weapon it has. It says nothing about whether you can or can not convert the model.

It is impossible to look at the model itself anyway, since it's usually covered in Citadel Paints (tm)

lol I love these threads now. The last one was a constant back and forth on conversion versus assembly. Now we're onto paint.

There is definitely implicit allowance to modify models, otherwise the "impressive bases" and variable positions that are referenced are incorrect.

So, since you are not ever required to check a "stock" model, or a model on the website, or the sprue the model came on; there is no reason to add rules.
Look at the model on the table and visually determine what type of power weapon is being used.

I am wondering if some of these people expect me to buy 3-8 boxes of genestealers to field ygmarls.

liturgies of blood wrote:Rules as published your wife must wear trousers. Well the developement team are asexual drones so I'd call it open to anyone.

I think the rules should have put a picture of women playing the game. Would be nice to see some more girls playing the game.

There is. Its the first photograph in the book, I think...

Also, if you buy a power weapon from your codex I say you get to choose. Either you go normally wih normal strength, or you get a higher strength with a reduced I. Simple trade off for the same points. The fact that fighting with an axe is no slower than fighting with a sword apparently hasn't registered with GW

Flinty wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:Rules as published your wife must wear trousers. Well the developement team are asexual drones so I'd call it open to anyone.

I think the rules should have put a picture of women playing the game. Would be nice to see some more girls playing the game.

There is. Its the first photograph in the book, I think...

Not in the rules section, so it doesn't apply.

2nd picture, after the guy painting.

kirsanth wrote:There is definitely implicit allowance to modify models, otherwise the "impressive bases" and variable positions that are referenced are incorrect.

So, since you are not ever required to check a "stock" model, or a model on the website, or the sprue the model came on; there is no reason to add rules.
Look at the model on the table and visually determine what type of power weapon is being used.

I am wondering if some of these people expect me to buy 3-8 boxes of genestealers to field ygmarls.

All of these things fall under "modelling".

Giving a company commander a bolt pistol is, rules-wise, the same as having an entire blob in the lying down position.
You can't claim that because some people think modelling certain things is MFA, that invalidates many codex options - it doesn't. MFA is inherently subjective.

Regardless, you can't escape the fact that the rulebook (remember, "we use a permissive ruleset"), does NOT give you permission to model whichever power weapon you want.

That way only lies madness (as someone puts nicely on this board), since the rulebook allows precious few things when it comes to putting your models together for gaming.

pretre wrote:

Flinty wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:Rules as published your wife must wear trousers. Well the developement team are asexual drones so I'd call it open to anyone.

I think the rules should have put a picture of women playing the game. Would be nice to see some more girls playing the game.

There is. Its the first photograph in the book, I think...

Not in the rules section, so it doesn't apply.

2nd picture, after the guy painting.

More importantly, I said women. One swallow does not a summer make.
The GW shops are incredibly hostile to women IMHO, I had to tell a kid to shut up when he kept shouting that he was going to rape the only girl in the store. Freedom of speech and all that aside, not cool.

Testify wrote:You can't claim that because some people think modelling certain things is MFA, that invalidates many codex options - it doesn't

This much I agree with.

Then how about this situation. I like the Metal Cadian Officer minis but they only come with Bolt Pistols. I want to give mine a Plasma pistol and would rather use the metal mini rather than the plastic one from the box which includes a PP. So I'm guessing in the narrow minds of some here it would be illegal for me to cut the BP off and swap it with a PP correct?

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Then how about this situation. I like the Metal Cadian Officer minis but they only come with Bolt Pistols. I want to give mine a Plasma pistol and would rather use the metal mini rather than the plastic one from the box which includes a PP. So I'm guessing in the narrow minds of some here it would be illegal for me to cut the BP off and swap it with a PP correct?

No. They are both modelling. One of them is considered modelling for advantage by some. Learn the distinction.

What if I consider striking at initative 1(power weapon: axe) a DISadvantage over striking at normal initative(power weapon: sword)? Is that modelling for disadvantage?

Testify wrote:Regardless, you can't escape the fact that the rulebook (remember, "we use a permissive ruleset"), does NOT give you permission to model whichever power weapon you want.

It also does not give you permission to assemble models or paint them...

It also does not give permission to model a Lascannon onto a Devastator marine (An option the Kit does not come with). Which, of course, is silly.

Same applies for power weapons, if the kit does not come with them you can use bits to model them on. It is a convention the rules must allow, otherwise there are many many models that are not legal.

Fact remains that there is no advantage to having any of the listed power weapons, as they all have their drawbacks and cost the same points.

beigeknight wrote:What if I consider striking at initative 1(power weapon: axe) a DISadvantage over striking at normal initative(power weapon: sword)? Is that modelling for disadvantage?

I have wondering about that to.
Now taking my DCA and giving her a Power Maul and a Power Axe...

Personally, I'm 4 Maul/Sword, 2 Axe/Sword. I'm thinking of swapping a couple swords on the mauls for Axes. We'll see though.

DeathReaper wrote:

Testify wrote:Regardless, you can't escape the fact that the rulebook (remember, "we use a permissive ruleset"), does NOT give you permission to model whichever power weapon you want.

It also does not give you permission to assemble models or paint them...

It also does not give permission to model a Lascannon onto a Devastator marine (An option the Kit does not come with). Which, of course, is silly.

Same applies for power weapons, if the kit does not come with them you can use bits to model them on. It is a convention the rules must allow, otherwise there are many many models that are not legal.

Fact remains that there is no advantage to having any of the listed power weapons, as they all have their drawbacks and cost the same points.

There is an advantage, as I have already posted. You can insist they are the same if you want.

I know I am going to go through my old D&D Minis for Crusaders and DCAs

Testify wrote:There is an advantage, as I have already posted. You can insist they are the same if you want.

Your perception of advantage is fine for you to have. The game, in this case however, actually has a value for this modeling. One of two things with the same points value, which is stated in the rules as relating their relative power (and thus advantage) cannot be (rightfully) called advantageous over the other.

"Knowing the points value your models gives you a way of reckoning your army's effectiveness."

Two armies identical except for for the varieties of power weapons are therefor exactly as effective as each other, neither has advantage according to the rules.

Testify wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Then how about this situation. I like the Metal Cadian Officer minis but they only come with Bolt Pistols. I want to give mine a Plasma pistol and would rather use the metal mini rather than the plastic one from the box which includes a PP. So I'm guessing in the narrow minds of some here it would be illegal for me to cut the BP off and swap it with a PP correct?

No. They are both modelling. One of them is considered modelling for advantage by some. Learn the distinction.

I wouldn't consider putting a PP on a Cadian that only came with a BP modeling for an advantage. How do you figure that?

So you are basically saying that giving one model a weapon allowed by the rules and DEX is OK but giving another model a weapon allowed by the rules and DEX isn't. OK then.

EDIT: Forgot the smiley.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

Testify wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Then how about this situation. I like the Metal Cadian Officer minis but they only come with Bolt Pistols. I want to give mine a Plasma pistol and would rather use the metal mini rather than the plastic one from the box which includes a PP. So I'm guessing in the narrow minds of some here it would be illegal for me to cut the BP off and swap it with a PP correct?

No. They are both modelling. One of them is considered modelling for advantage by some. Learn the distinction.

I wouldn't consider putting a PP on a Cadian that only came with a BP modeling for an advantage. How do you figure that?

Some People are calling me giving my Rune Priest a Force Sword or Frost Axe Modeling for Advantage, even though that is what they have, one for decades [In our group we allow this ] or my 1996 Chaplin with his Cutlass MFA even though it is the weapon it came with.

You have to remember you aren't following the rules if it is legal per the rules. At least some here believe that.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:You have to remember you aren't following the rules if it is legal per the rules. At least some here believe that.

The Issue here is that the Rune Weapon/Wolf Priest Crozius [Power Weapon] Debate will probably never be resolved.

Whether it was legal or not was not the point, it was I pull out my Wolf Priest with Power Axe Unmodified there are some who will scream Modeling for Advantage, just like those who cry when I pull out my G1 Terminators on there original 25mm Bases.

Anpu42 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:You have to remember you aren't following the rules if it is legal per the rules. At least some here believe that.

The Issue here is that the Rune Weapon/Wolf Priest Crozius [Power Weapon] Debate will probably never be resolved.

Whether it was legal or not was not the point, it was I pull out my Wolf Priest with Power Axe Unmodified there are some who will scream Modeling for Advantage, just like those who cry when I pull out my G1 Terminators on there original 25mm Bases.

Rune Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons though, aren't they?

Boss GreenNutz wrote:You have to remember you aren't following the rules if it is legal per the rules. At least some here believe that.

I'm following the rules by sticking the head of one of the models on my HWS a foot above his body.

I'm also following the rules by having everyone in my army lying down.

I'm also following the rules by rolling for my own reserves during YOUR turn.

Saying something is RAW does not automatically win an argument.
It is also, in this case, untrue. As has been said countless times, you have no RAW base to model whatever power weapon you like onto your model.

Same thing with my Mordian HWTs. They didn't come with a large base. Wonder if I am MFA if I put them on one since you evidently can't change what a model is supplied with out of the blister.

Saying something is RAW does not automatically win an argument.
It is also, in this case, untrue. As has been said countless times, you have no RAW base to model whatever power weapon you like onto your model.

Uhmmm yes I do. The rulebook says a power weapon is one of 4 types. Riddle me this. If I put a maul on a Crusader does he have a power weapon?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:You have to remember you aren't following the rules if it is legal per the rules. At least some here believe that.

The Issue here is that the Rune Weapon/Wolf Priest Crozius [Power Weapon] Debate will probably never be resolved.

Whether it was legal or not was not the point, it was I pull out my Wolf Priest with Power Axe Unmodified there are some who will scream Modeling for Advantage, just like those who cry when I pull out my G1 Terminators on there original 25mm Bases.

Rune Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons though, aren't they?

Rune weapons are unusual force weapons. They are force weapons with additional rules. Hence ap3 with initiative and strength of the user.