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2014/11/21 08:16:44
Subject: Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced and first army has been revealed page #3)
I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.
That said, I have concerns.
#1 hybrid range: I love good plastics, I generally dislike resins/metals, especially for mass battle systems like this. The reason I am not buying more Mantic high elves is because they made their infantry plastic and their cavalry metal/restic. The reason why I haven't acquired a couple of boxes of plastic Mountain Orcs is because the chariots are all resin. I want such 'core' units all in plastic before I commit to a unique range (like the Mountain Orcs).
#2 You've shown with one plastic boxed set that you can commission good plastics, but one product doesn't make a trend for good plastics. Might be a good idea to release another plastic product (or two) before the launch of the KS.
#3 Isn't five armies a bit much, knowing Renandra they don't have the production capacity to do five armies worth of plastics the last time I checked with them (a year and a half plus wait time for new open production slots).
2014/11/21 09:56:56
Subject: Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced and first army has been revealed page #3)
Cergorach wrote: I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.
That said, I have concerns.
#1 hybrid range: I love good plastics, I generally dislike resins/metals, especially for mass battle systems like this. The reason I am not buying more Mantic high elves is because they made their infantry plastic and their cavalry metal/restic. The reason why I haven't acquired a couple of boxes of plastic Mountain Orcs is because the chariots are all resin. I want such 'core' units all in plastic before I commit to a unique range (like the Mountain Orcs).
#2 You've shown with one plastic boxed set that you can commission good plastics, but one product doesn't make a trend for good plastics. Might be a good idea to release another plastic product (or two) before the launch of the KS.
#3 Isn't five armies a bit much, knowing Renandra they don't have the production capacity to do five armies worth of plastics the last time I checked with them (a year and a half plus wait time for new open production slots).
Just my 2 pennies:
1: Thats a personal preference thing. It matters not a jot to me if they are plastic, resin or metal (id prefer they were not restic, but even that seems to have improved slightly). As a primarily historical player if I waited for plastic kits for the timelines or ranges I want to game with I'd be waiting a long time.
2: Plastic kits are expensive to tool. It may be the case that without the KS they simply cannot do any more plastics in the near to mid future
3: Perhaps they've already been in contact with Renedra and organised a slot? Time will tell.
Cergorach wrote: I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.
That said, I have concerns.
#1 hybrid range: I love good plastics, I generally dislike resins/metals, especially for mass battle systems like this. The reason I am not buying more Mantic high elves is because they made their infantry plastic and their cavalry metal/restic. The reason why I haven't acquired a couple of boxes of plastic Mountain Orcs is because the chariots are all resin. I want such 'core' units all in plastic before I commit to a unique range (like the Mountain Orcs).
#2 You've shown with one plastic boxed set that you can commission good plastics, but one product doesn't make a trend for good plastics. Might be a good idea to release another plastic product (or two) before the launch of the KS.
#3 Isn't five armies a bit much, knowing Renandra they don't have the production capacity to do five armies worth of plastics the last time I checked with them (a year and a half plus wait time for new open production slots).
Just my 2 pennies:
1: Thats a personal preference thing. It matters not a jot to me if they are plastic, resin or metal (id prefer they were not restic, but even that seems to have improved slightly). As a primarily historical player if I waited for plastic kits for the timelines or ranges I want to game with I'd be waiting a long time.
2: Plastic kits are expensive to tool. It may be the case that without the KS they simply cannot do any more plastics in the near to mid future
3: Perhaps they've already been in contact with Renedra and organised a slot? Time will tell.
1. Indeed it's a personal thing, although I understand what you say. The impression that has been created to me is that the minis for units will be in plastic (like mountain orcs) and the individuals, which need a higher level of detail will be in resin (but real resin like Mierce's, not restic or trollcasr or anything).
2. I think this the goal of the KS. To fund as many as possible plastic sprues. If this is the case this would make it one of the few KS casmpaigns so far that give actual plastic sprues.
3. I don't know about this.I suppose it's a production issue, which will be clarified through the KS campaign. I am sure that Shieldwolf will give a clear answer on that. Let's also wait and see when the estimated delivery dates are going to be.
2014/11/21 10:20:37
Subject: Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced and first army has been revealed page #3)
That's of course true, but I'm certainly not the only one that feels this way. It's also a simple fact that resin/metal is more expensive for the consumer then plastic, that's an issue in itself. The GW Orc plastic chariot is still cheaper then the SW chariots, especially when you can get 20% discount on GW easily and not with SW products. It's not a defect with the product, it's a reason why they don't have more sales.
They might not, they might. It just might improve their reputation for the KS and reputation is everything with KS.
Organizing a slot with Renedra is possible, but they would need a lot of slots for 5 armies, and they don't know how many yet because they don't know how the KS is going to end up...
2014/11/21 11:02:46
Subject: Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced and first army has been revealed page #3)
That's of course true, but I'm certainly not the only one that feels this way. It's also a simple fact that resin/metal is more expensive for the consumer then plastic, that's an issue in itself. The GW Orc plastic chariot is still cheaper then the SW chariots, especially when you can get 20% discount on GW easily and not with SW products. It's not a defect with the product, it's a reason why they don't have more sales.
They might not, they might. It just might improve their reputation for the KS and reputation is everything with KS.
Organizing a slot with Renedra is possible, but they would need a lot of slots for 5 armies, and they don't know how many yet because they don't know how the KS is going to end up...
Oh I never thought you were the only one, I have some friends who will only consider plastic. I have a slight preference for metal myself but am happy for things to be plastic, especially where you have big ranks of dudes, its easier to contruct the rank so it fits for starters. For me, choosing one mini over another is a balance between cost and aesthetic. If the cost differential is not lolhuge then I'll choose the mini I prefer over the cheaper one every time. I realise that puts me in a privileged position, and not everyone can neccesarily do that.
I agree that the production slot issue does need adressed. Many is the KS that has fallen at this hurdle when it proved more popular than the creator first estimated.
Hi guys, I'm very happy people enter to share their opinions in our thread, I'll try to answer as much as possible.
(sorry if I leave something out, I will not do it on purpose, lol!)
corgan wrote: @Longstrider, this a list of reviews (text and video) published on their facebook wall. Maybe you will find them interesting and useful:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Big hammer is big. Orcs deserve big hammers once in a while. They also deserve to get to wear real armor. Hate the ramshackle nonsense you usually see orcs wearing. Dude looks ready (or at least was in the process of already) to get his fight on.
The fact that he is able to stand upright compared to his hunched over and half naked mountain relatives is a plus.
Each of the four factions is different. The Mountain Orcs had to show/represent the savagery and haste to enter close combat. The Valley Orcs are the most disciplined faction and with a fluff people are not used to maybe, they do not wear scrap, they have a respected history of their own. The Valley Orc Warlord with 2-handed weapon (in this case maul) pictured above -a model that has already been sculpted- wears heavy armor and lacks the bit of fur that is in the clothing of the Valley Orcs. These use more something like a Warcraft Orcs vestiary.
judgedoug wrote: Looking great. Did I miss or has it not been stated what the first few hard plastic kits would be?
No, we havent' but people will know exactly which plastic kits we want to fund before the campaign starts. Do trust me when I tell you that plastics are not the only thing you will be drooling over on this project. Yes, "drooling over", I'm very aware of what I'm saying :-)
Longstrider wrote: Well, I just read this thread from top to bottom and went to check out Shieldwolf's site.
I must say I'm cautiously excited. I haven't held any of the minis in person, but from the photos of what seem to be actual minis, they look to be of very nice quality and for a good price.
I really hope - and it sounds like they've put a lot into this - that SW takes the opportunity with hard plastic minis to make them as modular as possible - weapon options and the like to maximise the use we all get out of each sprue. Things like the head/neck and arm/shoulder joints being compatible amongst species and so on.
We listen to what people tell us. When we first came out with the Death Deceivers and Heavy Skeleton regiments people were asking for more detail. When we followed with the Light Barbarian Infantry people were more pleased but still asked for more dynamism and if possible, hard plastic. When we came out with the Mountain Orc Infantry people asked us for more bits left on the sprues. They also asked to produce more kits and maintain price range the same. Now, it's obvious we have put a lot into this, even if that's not what we initially wanted we think we are entitled to have our shot in a crowdfunding project. We will produce more kits, there will be more bits left on the sprues, we will not skip to the easy/cheaper solution of restic/PVC etc. But, we will need your support and comments/suggestions like the one above :-)
Regardless, an ordered progression of stretch goals that actually correspond to appropriate costs, and no overextending with hamfisted ideas and no planning? That sounds like the sort of campaign I could really get behind. And I LIKE the occasional kickstarter that goes off the wall, but almost none of the ones I've backed that have done that have delivered on time.
You have my word -and you can quote me on this-, that if all stretch goals are reached, we will not overextend. People will know exactly what's the last stretch goal and with which the campaign will finish.
So, anyone want to hazard a guess what the other four armies will be? I'm quite excited to see any of the ones SW has suggested, but offhand I'd prefer Elves, Dracantropii, Araves and Goblins, and probably in that order - I just hope their Araves don't become cheap historical stereotypes though in the background, but it sounds like SW has put a lot of thought in, so I'm optimistic on that part.
In terms of what's perhaps more likely than just fulfilling my person demands - goblins would be a shoe-in though, since in a lot of fantasy worlds they join up alongside orcs. Undead as well probably, because everyone and their uncle seems to find them fascinating, which I've never understood - but hey, it takes all kinds. I feel like European-medieval style humans would be kind of a waste at this point, since there's so much historical stuff out in plastic now, unless SW has a REALLY cool concept to change them up dramatically. Infernals and Barbarians could be a possibility too since they're already in resin, but that might be a reason not to get into them at this moment.
Regardless, I'm quite excited for it - and as much as I'd like to see the KS up so I can have minis sooner, delaying till after the Christmas craziness is probably a great idea.
CONTEST!!! :-)
Anyone who guesses what the 5 armies we have prepared for the Kickstarter campaign are, will get to pick one of the 4 busts we are producing for the "Monuments of Glory" release mailed free of charge to him. Should make this more fun... :-)
*marks Longstrider for Orcs, and...?*
Pete Melvin wrote: Well, I am certainly interested in this one for sure. I do so love Orcs and Shieldwolf Orcs are very nice indeed. Awaiting KS eagerly.
Thank you, we'll try to give you reason NOT to be dissapointed :-)
Cergorach wrote: I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.
That said, I have concerns.
#1 hybrid range: I love good plastics, I generally dislike resins/metals, especially for mass battle systems like this. The reason I am not buying more Mantic high elves is because they made their infantry plastic and their cavalry metal/restic. The reason why I haven't acquired a couple of boxes of plastic Mountain Orcs is because the chariots are all resin. I want such 'core' units all in plastic before I commit to a unique range (like the Mountain Orcs).
I appreciate the concern and If you allow me I'd like to write a response. :-)
I think that other companies also produce hybrid models (even the largest company in the market) and once painted one can't really tell the difference (the chariots are actually our only hybrid model). We wanted to have 2 resin models for the crew but it lifted production time and costs too much for us to be competitive. If you want to know however for this campaign, we haven't planned for any hybrid models nor do we want this to become a trend. I appreciate the occasion you are offering with the concern to point this out.
-> Core units in HIPS, everything else in polyurethane resin. NO hybrids! :-)
Cergorach wrote: #2 You've shown with one plastic boxed set that you can commission good plastics, but one product doesn't make a trend for good plastics. Might be a good idea to release another plastic product (or two) before the launch of the KS.
Allow me to disagree, one product does make a good trend if one continues using the same methods and doesn't alter them. You are saying we should produce more plastics on our own, well actually that was the plan, but it would be a very very high risk. And we are VERY happy that we didn't move on and instead spent all these months (nine months counting November and at least 1 more needed). Let me explain. Let's assume for example that we kept on doing what we were doing and kept on with our initial plan. That meant we were tolling Daemons Infantry at Renedra as we speak. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the costs of HIPS, but in order to have an idea a much smaller manufacturer than us asked something like 80,000 GBP lately for 2 plastic regiments to be tooled at the same facility. And that was without a command sprue. I probably shouldn't even be telling you this but we do have the funds to produce yet another kit, without even having to depend on current sales. Do you know how much time it would take us to make back enough of our investment to move on to a 3rd kit? Years. We do not want to wait for years, and if people share that impatience of ours, then we can do this collectively. Going back to my example, something similar to our Daemon Infantry has been recently over-funded by another colleague and competitor who spent a tiny-tiny fraction on artwork much simpler than ours and didn't even have to co-fund the KS project. And we are not even talking about the same quality and for someone that has already been funded in the past for similar fantasy army projects (with results which I will restrain myself to openly judge). I'm a very passionate person for fantasy but I'm also a bussinesman and I'm going to try my best to make this company thrive. The very fact tiny Shieldwolf and the largest company worldwide are the only ones that keep on tooling quality plastics (not to wonder why it's in Europe and no some other 3rd wolrd country/continent) brings great pride and should speak for itself.
Guess we did the right thing not to throw our money in something people have already bought in the last days and which will be coming out in a year from now. As I said, VERY happy with our call :-)
I don't want to shoot numbers, but a company that has already spent thousands of pounds without crowdfunding, should be taken seriously enough. I'm very sorry if you believe that does not suffice and I too hope you will support me and my company in this effort of ours :-)
Cergorach wrote: #3 Isn't five armies a bit much, knowing Renedra they don't have the production capacity to do five armies worth of plastics the last time I checked with them (a year and a half plus wait time for new open production slots).
You are indeed correct. We have never missed a deadline, we have great knowledge of the tooling times and costs, we will need at least 11 months before starting to deliver and we have already gone into the expense of sculpting EVERY 3-up part necessary for the 1st kit. That's some thousands of pounds that may be thrown outside the window if we do not succeed, but we believe in this and we want to show commitment. As I said, it will not be only artwork you'll be seeing from us.
Cergorach wrote: I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.
That said, I have concerns.
#1 hybrid range: I love good plastics, I generally dislike resins/metals, especially for mass battle systems like this. The reason I am not buying more Mantic high elves is because they made their infantry plastic and their cavalry metal/restic. The reason why I haven't acquired a couple of boxes of plastic Mountain Orcs is because the chariots are all resin. I want such 'core' units all in plastic before I commit to a unique range (like the Mountain Orcs).
#2 You've shown with one plastic boxed set that you can commission good plastics, but one product doesn't make a trend for good plastics. Might be a good idea to release another plastic product (or two) before the launch of the KS.
#3 Isn't five armies a bit much, knowing Renandra they don't have the production capacity to do five armies worth of plastics the last time I checked with them (a year and a half plus wait time for new open production slots).
Just my 2 pennies:
1: Thats a personal preference thing. It matters not a jot to me if they are plastic, resin or metal (id prefer they were not restic, but even that seems to have improved slightly). As a primarily historical player if I waited for plastic kits for the timelines or ranges I want to game with I'd be waiting a long time.
2: Plastic kits are expensive to tool. It may be the case that without the KS they simply cannot do any more plastics in the near to mid future
3: Perhaps they've already been in contact with Renedra and organised a slot? Time will tell.
1. You covered me completely.
2. Actually the risk was too great to sink the company in not producing any other plastic for many years to come.
3. We have exact timings and slots, Renedra has been informed for all the plastic kits we have scheduled and I can reveal that if the campaign goes well, the first plastic kit will commence tooling some 30 days after it has ended, with us in the meanwhile working on everything else. The people at Renedra know us and we have worked before, it brings us to a whole different level of communication and collaboration.
I saved the best for last. When I deal with people, I want to treat them as I'd like to be treated myself. I live by this rule and it has brought me far I think.
We've seen in our research that various Kickstarters offered minis that didn't look anything like the ones initially shown. That's fine.
We've seen people complain that manufacturers changed their production methods from those initially shown (e.g. from HIPS/resin to PVC). That's fine, no problem.
We've seen people argue that the creator overpromised. No sweat.
We've seen people spending hundreds of $$$ and being very sorry for supporting the project. Don't give a damn.
We've seen people get really frustrated by the missing/faulty parts they receive. Cool.
And you know why? Because this campaign is as serious as it gets. We have planned for everything but life is life and problems may appear out of nowhere. If for whatever reason you are not pleased with us, you can mail us back the items once you receive them for a full refund, no questions asked. Yap, that's a MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. A sorry doesn't work for us, I don't do apologies.
Thanks for reading and hope you support us.
Angelos.
Well you have won me over. Seldom have I seen a company on Kickstarter have such clear and reasonable answers to all concerns... and this before the campaign even starts!
2014/11/21 15:31:15
Subject: Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced, first army revealed page #3 and Contest page #4)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2014/11/21 15:51:43
Subject: Re:Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced and first army has been revealed page #3)
Thanks for reading and hope you support us.
Angelos.
Well I've got tosay I enjoyed that post by SW, it was open, informative and friendly. Games&Gears-commence taking notes.
You already had me interested, I'm halfway sold now.
AND NOW MY GUESS!:
Orcs
Human (Kingdom of Talliareum)
Elves
Northern Alliance
Undead
@Shieldwolf Miniatures: Sounds good, I'll be keeping an eye on more plastics in the KS.
GBP80k for two Regiments/sprues? A few years ago that was more like GBP30k (which was already a LOT when compared to costs in China). The advantage is of course, your going to save a ton on shipping from China ;-)
2014/11/21 19:51:05
Subject: Re:Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced, first army revealed page #3 and Contest page #4)
We've had contact with Chinese factories before going to Renedra, going plastic had to correspond to what the company's quality reflected. I personally flew to England to see the facilities and meet the people there.
Apart from the fact their quality is not to our standards, Chinese shipping isn't as expensive as you may think, they have government laws that assist exports. And plastic sprues do have to fly from England to Athens also. :-)
Edit: One last thing I wanted to mention, this contest should have a deadline,so it's over on December 1st. By then we will have declared the winner and if it's no-one, then we will simply reveal our 2nd planned army for this campaign...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/21 19:54:15
Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.
We have exact timings and slots, Renedra has been informed for all the plastic kits we have scheduled and I can reveal that if the campaign goes well, the first plastic kit will commence tooling some 30 days after it has ended, with us in the meanwhile working on everything else. The people at Renedra know us and we have worked before, it brings us to a whole different level of communication and collaboration.
yeah they are
2014/11/21 23:09:15
Subject: Re:Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced, first army revealed page #3 and Contest page #4)
Looking forward to this a lot more. Can't wait to see more Orcs and what you do with the barbarians. The goat people (Tragomaxoi) doesn't sound very appealing, would rather see Wulfen as a faction if we have to see other humanoid animals, unless you are going for a more demon like goat style?
By the way you are in competition now with Mierce for funky names I can't pronounce.
Bring on more of those Iksar looking guys, they are fun
2014/11/22 08:45:47
Subject: Re:Shieldwolf Miniatures - (Kickstarter announced, first army revealed page #3 and Contest page #4)
RiTides wrote: Shieldwolf - Wait, could you clarify that? I think I misread it the first time, but you are going with Renedra for tooling, right?
As carlos13th said, yap!
Piston Honda wrote: Looking forward to this a lot more. Can't wait to see more Orcs and what you do with the barbarians. The goat people (Tragomaxoi) doesn't sound very appealing, would rather see Wulfen as a faction if we have to see other humanoid animals, unless you are going for a more demon like goat style?
By the way you are in competition now with Mierce for funky names I can't pronounce.
Bring on more of those Iksar looking guys, they are fun
Actually these are Greek names written in latin, tragomaxoi comes from tragos=goat and max(h)imos=combatant.
I don't really follow them but where do you think Mierce fishes some of their names I've seen? E.g. ever wondered what agriosavra means in Greek?
I'll give you a hint, it's written αγριοσαύρα, try going to google translate and breaking it up in αγριο σαύρα
;-)
Anyway, don't you want to get a shot at the contest? :-)
Yes! Draki in Greek means Dragons and Antropi= Humans.
Thus a human dragon race, just altered the spelling a bit for the copyrights we wanted to secure :-)
Guessing the exact name, no! We'll be more than happy if one of you guesses them correctly :-)
You can wite Tragomaxoi/Goat people/Beastmen just like (e.g.) Humans/Medieval people/Kingdom of Talliareum, they all work just fine and count for the same thing, we will not play with words! :-D
Araves or Asian people are different guesses though since they are different concepts/races, can't have everything count as "Humans", we have already revealed we have plans for the "more-like-human" races of Kingdom of Talliareum,The Rebels and Araves, so they obviously are not the same thing.
Hope I made sense, lol! :-)
From the guesses above, some races you got right, some you didn't!
Hint:
Spoiler:
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: 20mm, 25mm, 40mm, 50mm and 100mm. Troops in HIPS and everything else in our polyurethane resin.
To our knowledge some of these armies do not currently exist by any other manufacturer in this scale, others however do in different esthetics/vision.
Can't say much more, we will be revealing the first army this week, little by little more and more pieces of the puzzle will show up...
If I have to play the game though, here's my guesses-
Maybe a beastman race besides goats? More canines that aren't wolves? Jackals? Hyenas/ Gnolls?
The Arab inspired guys
Something aquatic?
Cultists or some sort of bad guys in hooded robes
The orcs and goblins you already were showing?
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
For the araves, I really hope to see some Harryhause Sinbad influences, with a touch of Zelda's Aganhim and Disney's Jafar for the sorcerers. Maybe a bit of The Desert Spear's ward-craft for decoration (kind of like Islamic art that uses script and repeating patterns instead of drawn images, but with magical runes).
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
