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Hollismason wrote:
I will say that I think a lot of it is because people haven't purchased Tomb Blades, because their obsessed with Wraiths. Seriously, Tomb Blades are crazy good and probably the best Point for Point model in the entire codex.

People will sing a different tune once players start using large units of Tomb Blades.

Honestly, I think Warriors are the best point-for-point model in the Codex (I may be biased there as I have 100+ of the 2E metals). Tomb Blades are good, but too many of them are unwieldy due to their physical size.

No one I know who plays Necrons even has any, they were just a terrible terrible unit, their basically suped up Immortals w/ 12" move, T5 and Ignore cover.

It's seriously a good unit and I expect that once people start playing them they'll see how powerful they are.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


Honestly, I think Warriors are the best point-for-point model in the Codex (I may be biased there as I have 100+ of the 2E metals). Tomb Blades are good, but too many of them are unwieldy due to their physical size.

Don't you find that the metal Warriors look too bulky for a measly 4+ save though? 'swhy I use mine as Immortals.

The argument, that no competitive player got time to paint wraiths and scarab farms to compete at LVO is a fun one.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
What I6+ units do you think will be slaughtering Wraiths left, right and centre? I'm honestly intrigued because they're bloody durable at the best of times, and most units with I6 or higher have traded power for speed.

Not so much units, but lots of big scarey things Avatar of Khaine, Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes(?), Space Marine Personalities, Harlequin HQs, etc...

I'm not bitching about the nerf, but those big scarey close combat monsters that wraiths used to gang up on and attack first, now don't give a crap about whip coils.

To be honest I'm all in favor of the new whip coils because of the points reduction and simpler rules.

A lot of those "big scary things" still have to get through T5 2W 3++/4+ RP. It's not a straight up win for the big scary things unless they are buffed/tooled out to hell.

Wraiths should never consider Avatars, Greater Daemons, DPs, or most ICs as "scary". They are designed to slaughter those types of single or low model count units. They hit with the same strength as most MCs, with Rending, and they have a 3++. Thanks to the nerf to Smash, they needn't fear ID, and even if Lysander was laying into them, they still have a 3++ and 5+ RP if in the decurian. A unit of 6 Wraiths w/whip coils (258 points) will absolutely murder any MC that dares stand in their way, and probably the vast majority of HQ units as well. You would be really hard pressed to put together an HQ unit for similar points that could stand up to 6 wraiths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

elotar wrote:
The argument, that no competitive player got time to paint wraiths and scarab farms to compete at LVO is a fun one.

Most competitive players should already have a ton of Wraiths and scarab farms painted.

I do think that it may take some time for Necron players to adjust to the new codex and get the most out of it, but in the meantime, one of the old stand-by builds, Wraith-wing, got made better so really they don't NEED to adjust that much. My usual Necron opponent is having to adjust because he relied on alot of the old codex's "dirty tricks" (ie, MSS, Imotekh's lightning, Snapfire Tesla on ABs, Cryptek shenanigans, all the crap that was nerfed). The new codex is more straightforward and relies less on shenanigans, although the decurian certainly has its share of SMH bonuses.

the_hanged_man wrote:
Necrons had all of the cheese removed, and the Las Vegas Open 2015 results show this now that the first two day results are out. The highest ranking Necron player came in at 26th place...no where near the top 8.

Durability is great but it does not win games on its own. A poster upthread mentioned that Necrons will be really strong in casual games, but due to the lack of spammable cheese and real teeth will not dominate on the competitive scene, and I agree with this sentiment.

I actually love the new codex. Now there is mostly good internal balance so I can bring much more of my toys to the battlefield than before. A great thematic army that is very forgiving, but hardly OP.

LVO allowed the Eldar Lynx up front. A survivable ranged D-weapon platform is a hard counter to wraithwing type lists. It's presence is likely to have influenced army selection quite a bit.

 Antario wrote:

the_hanged_man wrote:
Necrons had all of the cheese removed, and the Las Vegas Open 2015 results show this now that the first two day results are out. The highest ranking Necron player came in at 26th place...no where near the top 8.

Durability is great but it does not win games on its own. A poster upthread mentioned that Necrons will be really strong in casual games, but due to the lack of spammable cheese and real teeth will not dominate on the competitive scene, and I agree with this sentiment.

I actually love the new codex. Now there is mostly good internal balance so I can bring much more of my toys to the battlefield than before. A great thematic army that is very forgiving, but hardly OP.

LVO allowed the Eldar Lynx up front. A survivable ranged D-weapon platform is a hard counter to wraithwing type lists. It's presence is likely to have influenced army selection quite a bit.

They allowed it, I'm curious if their exit polling thinks that was a good idea.

The Lynx is largely in the perfect AV range for Necrons to take down quite quickly, and vs Wraiths will largely rely on rolling 6's to wound to ignore that 3++.

I mean, it's not an ignorable threat, but it's also one of the easiest superheavies to destroy (if it wants to be in a position to do any shooting at least), and is really reliant on good rolls to deal with Wraiths.

Do we have any info on how many Lynx's were present, if any?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Do we have any info on how many Lynx's were present, if any?

No exact numbers, but the LVO thread made them out to be a common sight.

Not related to the current discussion, but it has been asked before, there was also a mention that that the entire Decurion was considered a single detachment. So it would have been legal to take the Decurion (Reclamation legion + the 1-10 add on detachments) + Allied detachment

With the Decurion I think the army overall is way stronger. MSS, Tesla and Scarab nerfs notwithstanding, the army is vastly more durable now. Even a dedicated assault unit will have a much harder time sweeping them in combat after RP rolls, which was probably the only reliable way to kill a large unit before. Wiping a unit before RP is no longer possible. Rerolling ones on RP is a slight buff that in corner cases makes a big difference. Army wide RP is bonkers. Move through cover is great. Not having to choose to rapid fire or charge and instead doing both? Huge. All the weaknesses they had have been largely alleviated by the changes if you use the Decurion. Spam lists are going to suffer, but on the whole they are much more resilient and didn't lose much in return except stuff that felt very unfair. They do feel slightly less demoralizing in my experience, though- at least they lost the weird movement from RP and once saves and RP is made you're not going to go into target priority seizures like before. Anyone that doesn't see FNP plus, relentless and MTC on a whole army (well, most of) as very very good is kidding themselves. As good as that Barges and Croissants all day nonsense? Probably not. But honestly, I'm shocked anyone could lose at all with that setup. Good riddance.