Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I played a list that was fun if not slightly competitive.

Guri virago stealth device sensor jammer predator

Mand Merc predator ( I find getting in shots that count matters more than shooting first for me)

Scyk with Mangler

The scyk is so disappointing- not that he did poorly, just that he costs so much. I may drop the stealth device and get two pirates

I used Emon Azzy and was disgusted with him, I really like the plain mercs, although I see potential with Boba N Kath they just get really expensive.

What crew do you guys suggest with a Merc and predator? I like the hot shot blaster but can't always justify the cost

buckero0 wrote:
Guri virago stealth device sensor jammer predator

This is a bad idea. Stealth is worth much less than autothrusters, and the sensor jammer is a marginal upgrade at best in a list that doesn't have any action denial. You really want advanced sensors on the starviper if you're going to use it at all, the ability to get actions before s-looping or boost/br to change your angle is really valuable. Not that I'd use a starviper at all though, as it's just not a good ship for the point cost.

I used Emon Azzy and was disgusted with him

You might want to take a look at this article then: http://teamcovenant.com/hothie/2015/03/08/the-slingshot/

What crew do you guys suggest with a Merc and predator?

Recon specialist. The K4 droid is good with PTL, but you've already got a re-roll on attack dice from predator. So that leaves recon specialist as the only way to get extra "actions" out of your crew slot. The only other option I'd consider is gunner, but that's more points for an upgrade that IMO isn't as consistently useful as the extra focus tokens.

That bomb thing looks fun.

So does 6 Z's and maybe Serrisu work *kind of* like a 7 tie swarm or are the things that make a tie swarm work not in place for Z's?



Could squeeze Suh'lak with clusters into the list but probably better to use something like a stealth device on serrisu I would think.

Considering flying the following as my first Scum list

Torkhil Mux with Blaster Turret and Recon Specialist
2 x Syndicate Thug Y-Wing with BTL title, Ion Turrets and R4 Agromech
2 x Binayre Pirates

Not too sure about Mux, the ability seems quite strong but its quite a few points tied up in a very squishy and weak dialled ship

Any thoughts welcome

I have just played my first game ever. Have had a core set and Firespray (Boba Fett is my favorite character) but ever played until S&V came out. My friend offered to teach me to play. He's not much of a miniature gamer or an army builder so I thought I might not get totally owned and was right.

Since I could only use the upgrades from core, Firespray, and most wanted my choices were limited but that's ok when learning
I ran Boba Fett with Greedo, ion cannon, marksmanship, unhinged astromech ( I now realize this was illegal) and stealth device

Hired Thug with autoblaster cannon, Agro mech and VI

2x black sun soldiers

He ran a Decimator and two imperial aces. I know the Decimator had Chirneau but don't remember the aces, one was PS 7 and one was PS 5.

I did well enough but still have much to learn. I had the Decimator to half bull points and one interceptor dead and one almost when Boba K turned off the board, again learning to move.

I liked the Firespray obviously, now I just need to narrow down upgrades. The Y wing was a surprise to both of us. Since I pretty much just opened the box for this game I didnt know the ship stats, it's pretty solid! I think I will run it as a warthog and adding Kavil when I can.

The Zs did just fine for this game. I liked having 4 ships. I kept the three close together and used Boba Fett on the edges.

I have since added a second Y wing and HWK 290 and 2 Scyks.

I would try a Firespray and 2 y wings for sure. Still learning to use what few upgrades I have, if anyone is willing to give me ideas they would be appreciated!

Ok, in broad strokes, the best upgrades and pilot abilities are those that..

-allow a reroll, the dice will offer you a positive result roughly 50% of the time (slightly more with the red dice) so a reroll ups the chances of a positive result massively.

-increase efficiency of actions. Normally you'll only get one action a turn, so anything that confers extra actions or allows some sort of two for one deal likely has merit.

- adds dice (or removes them from your opponent.) The way the maths works with the dice, every extra dice rolled has a significant impact on the odds of a successful roll (don't ask me how, but I've seen enough people with a better grasp of probability state this to accept it as read) so adding/removing dice can have a significant impact on outcomes.

- allows a manoeuvre after dials have been revealed. Pretty self evident really, being able to correct your flight path in response to your opponent's actions can be hugely beneficial.

Any upgrades that allow any of these are generally always useful, different ones can vary in efficiency, either from card to card or in conjunction with which pilots/ships you're using.

One use secondary weapons are, broadly, considered not worth it, but most cannons and turrets have utility, bombs increasingly so as well.

Otherwise, most things can be useful in the right list in casual games, and the balance is sufficiently good that many inefficiencies in list building can be compensated for by good flying, so feel free to experiment!

So I had my most successful game yet over the weekend. My list was:

Drea Renthal [Ion Cannon Turret, Unhinged Astromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (28)

Syndicate Thug [Ion Cannon Turret, Unhinged Astromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (24) x 2

N’Dru Suhlak [Cluster Missiles, Lone Wolf] (23)


I was up against Jonus and 2 Onyx Defenders with HLCs.

In the end I lost, a surprise K turn from "1 hull left" Jonus got him beside Drea and blew her up. Still, there were multiple swing moments in the fight (including a complete and utter WHIFF from N'Dru's cluster missiles ) that could have easily swayed the game either way.

Drea is a complete beast, and for only 4 points over an equivalent Syndicate the constant availability of Target Locks is amazing. The Unhinged on a Y-Wing is so wonderful. Being able to zip around the field shedding stress all the while really saved her butt multiple times. I know most people don't run Unhinged on the Thugs, but I couldn't get R4s for both of them anyway. Having all those green options after a K turn (which I see as practically an inevitability) is nice for the Y-Wing.

Anyway, it was a great game. I made a few flubs like landing N'Dru right on an asteroid, which prevented me from Cluster Missiling much earlier than I did, but overall I think my ability to tell where my ships will end up with the templates is getting better.

I'm pretty poor at predicting that too. Sometimes I'll have a few turns of preternatural ability and everywhere I move my guys is smooth and right where they should be, but most turns I'm lucky if I"m not bumping into myself and seeing enemies K-turn behind me at range 1 when I didn't think they'd fit or make the gap etc.

Really gonna have to try unhinged, people keep raving about it. On Kavil, R4 is a necessity, but it seems like you could go either way on the thugs. You don't always get the chance to spend a focus on either of your attacks and if you don't, then you can't trigger the R4 for a target lock.

You can spend a focus token on an attack even if there are no focus results on the dice. Same as Garven Dreis's ability. Spend the token on the first attack, regardless of the dice result, to allow a TL on the more important turret attack.

Ah. Well there I go showing my novice-ness. Thanks for clearing that up, puts me a bit more back into the R4 where possible camp.

ajburgoni wrote:
You can spend a focus token on an attack even if there are no focus results on the dice. Same as Garven Dreis's ability. Spend the token on the first attack, regardless of the dice result, to allow a TL on the more important turret attack.

My reading of the most recent FAQ led me to believe you can spend the TL (if you want) on the same attack as the focus.

Looks like ajburgoni beat me to pointing that out.

Hey fellow Scum,

I just learned of the fun to be had with a HWK with Palob + title+ opportunist + recon spec + blaster turret.
Do any of you run this rig and if so, what do you include with it in your squadrons?

 BloodWulf wrote:
Hey fellow Scum,

I just learned of the fun to be had with a HWK with Palob + title+ opportunist + recon spec + blaster turret.
Do any of you run this rig and if so, what do you include with it in your squadrons?

I would suggest the K4 Security Droid over Recon Specialist tbh, you can build up a good supply of tokens early on and Opportunist means you want to do greens to clear your stress every turn anyway (since you can't be stressed already). That means you can do a green, take a TL and a focus and only be losing 1 focus per turn (assuming you spend 1 every turn, sometimes you will roll 4 hits clean and have the TL to spend as well).

@EmpNortonII. You can spend the TL on the same attack as you obtained it. So for example you could roll 3 blanks, spend the focus to modify no results, immediately obtain a TL from the R4 and then spend it to re-roll all 3 dice. The only limitation is that you cannot re-roll a dice that has already been re-rolled, so if you ever ended up with TL + Focus (i.e. you didn't spend the TL last turn) you could roll 3 blanks, re-roll them with the TL and spend the focus to acquire a TL again but could not do anything else from that point.

I have gone back to flying Rebels again for a bit after winning several small events with my Scum build, but the general concensus from everyone playing Scum (including myself) is that Ion Warthog Y-Wings are incredibly strong. They are significantly stronger than the Blue Squadron with Ion for the same cost. You lose barrel roll but gain incredible action effeciency and imo have a better dial (the 4K is far stronger than a 2K when you have Ion, because you can easily get behind people) - they feel at least 2-3 points cheaper than they should be (you almost have a free FCS, and the double shot is hard to quantify). You can't run nothing but Y's because they do still have weaknesses but if you cover that with your other ships they seem to do pretty well. If you aren't running IGs or a Firespray it seems like at least one Y is going to show up in a Scum list.

Question, but what is a "warthog" Y exactly? I see that get thrown around a lot but nobody explains it.

I do however love the look of Y Wings for Scum. They're nasty for what you get. Just trying to figure out how to augment them.

I usually end up coming back to either a horde of Z95's, or the flanker Z95 with maybe the hawk that lets you drop an enemy ship to PS0 or just more Z's.

I really want to love the M3a and Starviper, but I'm having a hard time finding a use for them with my Z95's and y wings that make up the bulk of my scum force.

I feel like to get the most use out of them you'd need to build a list from the ground up with them in mind, whereas my Z95's and Y Wings can get thrown in anywhere and do well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what's everyone's take on inertial dampeners? I feel like on Z95's they could make for an excellent blocker/sneaky shenanigans type of thing. You could really trip people up, block movement routes, stay behind ships, etc. Although those 4pts could also go to bombs on the Y Wings, I feel that's too much of all my eggs in one basket. Only other choice I see is a couple of dead man switches on two Z's, throw them into the enemy squad to raise chaos, and then bring up the Y's with a Z escort each after the dead man Z's break up the enemy line.

100 points

Pilots
------

Binayre Pirate (13) x 4
Z-95 Headhunter (12), Inertial Dampeners (1)

Syndicate Thug (24) x 2
Y-Wing (18), Ion Cannon Turret (5), Unhinged Astromech (1), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Question, but what is a "warthog" Y exactly?

Y-wing (usually the PS 2 version) with an ion turret and the A4 title card. The combination of the primary + ion shot is very effective for the point cost, especially against low-agility targets where the ion turret's damage cap used to be the biggest penalty. The warthog also benefits from two very good droid options: the R4 (scum) giving a free target lock or R3-A2 (rebel) allowing you to put two stress per turn on a target.

I feel like to get the most use out of them you'd need to build a list from the ground up with them in mind

To get the most use out of them you need to leave them in their boxes. Neither ship is effective in a competitive context.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I feel like to get the most use out of them you'd need to build a list from the ground up with them in mind

To get the most use out of them you need to leave them in their boxes. Neither ship is effective in a competitive context.

I wouldn't go that far. I remember when the Lambda came out, people said the same thing, and then a few months later they were all over. Of course, you don't see them a lot anymore, but it was a thing.

I have a feeling that the Starviper will see use in some context, it just will take a while to find its niche. Its not like the Y Wing where the best option is obvious, but I have a feeling we'll see it be like the E wing where people find one way to run it that works well enough. I'm curious to see how 4 of the generics do for example. I highly doubt it would do anything jaw dropping, but you never know.

As for the M3A, only idea I have is a swarm of Z's using some sort of sneaky ability with the PS 8 pilot. The PS5 pilot seems like a better deal point for point at the moment, but that 2 pt title upgrade hurts a lot.

My big thing is Scum is still young. Almost every release people bemoan the new ships and then next thing you know they've found a good build and people change their minds.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I feel like to get the most use out of them you'd need to build a list from the ground up with them in mind

To get the most use out of them you need to leave them in their boxes. Neither ship is effective in a competitive context.

I wouldn't go that far. I remember when the Lambda came out, people said the same thing, and then a few months later they were all over. Of course, you don't see them a lot anymore, but it was a thing.

I have a feeling that the Starviper will see use in some context, it just will take a while to find its niche. Its not like the Y Wing where the best option is obvious, but I have a feeling we'll see it be like the E wing where people find one way to run it that works well enough. I'm curious to see how 4 of the generics do for example. I highly doubt it would do anything jaw dropping, but you never know.

As for the M3A, only idea I have is a swarm of Z's using some sort of sneaky ability with the PS 8 pilot. The PS5 pilot seems like a better deal point for point at the moment, but that 2 pt title upgrade hurts a lot.

My big thing is Scum is still young. Almost every release people bemoan the new ships and then next thing you know they've found a good build and people change their minds.

I seem to recall that the shuttles popularity stemmed from "Doomshuttles" excellent damage output and durability to points ratio. As such you could afford to have it do nothing on a couple turns when it got outmaneuvered. The Starviper and Scyk don't have any real tricks like that.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I have a feeling that the Starviper will see use in some context, it just will take a while to find its niche. Its not like the Y Wing where the best option is obvious, but I have a feeling we'll see it be like the E wing where people find one way to run it that works well enough.

I think the difference here is that the e-wing (along with the phantom and defender) was the first "supership" to be released. Previously even high-end pilots with reasonable upgrades didn't really go above the 30-35 point level, and now suddenly there are ships that push it up to the 40-50 point level. So it took a while to figure out what worked (Corran + R2-D2, Whisper) and what didn't (the generics and the defender), and what a "supership" needs to be effective (powerful defense and good maneuvering options). But now we can compare the starviper to the existing options in its price range and see that seems to be pretty underwhelming for the cost. It doesn't have much defensive ability (no evade action, poor shield/hull ratio), it has limited ability to get extra actions or action-like abilities (too few greens for PTL and its best tricks are red maneuvers), and it doesn't have a high-end pilot to be a Corran/Whisper/Fel equivalent endgame threat.

And it might actually be able to salvage some kind of supporting role if scum had meaningful support options that Corran and Fel don't, but the best scum ships are the y-wing and z-95. Once you start looking at list options you can't help thinking "if I just switch factions I could replace the starviper with Corran and my list would be even better".

I'm curious to see how 4 of the generics do for example.

Probably very poorly. You have no room for upgrades and PS 1 really limits the effectiveness of their maneuvering options. So you're left with a ship that has a pretty bad jousting value and no other abilities to make up for it.

As for the M3A, only idea I have is a swarm of Z's using some sort of sneaky ability with the PS 8 pilot.

Probably not a good idea. The defensive re-roll is much weaker than Howlrunner's offensive re-roll, so you're essentially making a weaker version of a Howlrunner swarm (the TIE fighter and z-95 are roughly equivalent in performance). Plus scum have the very effective feedback swarm available if you want to take lots of z-95s, and I doubt a weaker Howlrunner effect is going to compete with that.

I tried a 7 Z-95 swarm with feedback array the other day against a Chiarneu+Whisper list, and it worked out okay. Chiraneu melts if you can maneuver your swarm right (he didn't have engine upgrade, and so he couldn't really maneuver away from the swarm), and I was able to use feedback array to bypass Isard's evade token and knock off his last hitpoint. The Phantom was predictably nightmarish for my swarm to deal with, and killed four ships by end of the game (Chiraneu one-shotted another one on turn 2). Z-95's can't really force themselves into range 1 of a phantom to use their feedback arrays. But I do feel like it helped to corral the phantom - he couldn't merely decloak/barrel roll out of my firing arcs, he actually had to make sure he was outside of range 1 of all the Z-95's (which hindered his ability to focus down damaged ships). Spreading them out so that they're ~range 2 from each other turns the swarm into sort of a pseudo mobile proximity mine field. We were using the old Phantom Decloak rules, so I would imagine that it would work better with the FAQ (since the phantom will have to guess where the swarm ships will be after he decloaks, rather than just having perfect information and always being able to choose the ideal decloak maneuver).

I'm curious to see experienced players play this matchup, it could be that a good phantom player can just dance around and ignore the feedback bubble. They want to be at range 2-3 anyhow. Might try this again with hot shot blasters instead (since I never actually used feedback array more than once per ship).

I have played a little with the z-95 in scum lists. As I only own three of the ships, not a true swarm. Usually support boba fett. I like the dead man switch with them. Great against other swarms when you close the gap and they get blown up. Not sure against the list you mentioned.

I re-tooled my IG88 list. Running both B&C. With the following upgrades:

Adrenaline rush
Ion cannon
Flachette cannon
Fire control system
Proximity mines
Auto thrusters
Inertial dampers
IG-2000

Did better. The FCS helps quality shot production. Auto thrusters helped out enough too. I like the two cannon upgrades, being able to ion or stress helps. The bomb slot is a wild card. Not sure if proximity mines are what to run there, maybe seismic charges, but not sure.