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I liked the acting for MoS. If the last fight scene wasn't so damnably rinse/repeat and long I would have really, really enjoyed it. It's darker than I prefer for my super hero movies but it was actually a solid film.

BvS on the other hand was terrible due to the way it was stitched together and tried to do to much with to little time. I ONLY enjoyed Affleck in that movie. The rest was a steaming pile to me as a movie goer. Because of that I held out for the extended edition of Suicide Squad which while not bad, didn't really rate on my list of watch again super hero movies. I can only imagine what I would have thought of the non-directors cut version.

 Frazzled wrote:
I don't understand the criticism of MoS:
*Excellent villains who have actual motivations other than twirling mustache bad guy ism. I found them very compelling.

See, what lost me was when I realised the entire conflict is completely unnecessary. Once Zod has the information he needs, why can't he just go off and terraform Mars or Venus into New Krypton, or some other planet? Why Earth? Okay, let's say Zod's a crazy racist or that only Earth will do because technobabble. But even then, his pitch kind of sucks.

"Hey, Kal-El! Now you might have gotten a bad impression of me from my gratuitously menacing and scary message where I imply I'm going to kill you as soon as we meet. But since you gave yourself up for the good of your adoptive race, it's clear to me that you care greatly for them. So can you help me turn this entire planet into a NIGHTMARE GRAVEYARD OF SKULLS? I even came up with a VR presentation, so you can properly appreciate how NIGHTMARISH this GRAVEYARD OF SKULLS will be! Worked on it myself!

"...huh looks like Kal-El doesn't want to work with us, so we'll have to fight him, and risk destroying the priceless data that's the last hope for our race. After we were so nice to him as well!"

 Elemental wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I don't understand the criticism of MoS:
*Excellent villains who have actual motivations other than twirling mustache bad guy ism. I found them very compelling.

See, what lost me was when I realised the entire conflict is completely unnecessary. Once Zod has the information he needs, why can't he just go off and terraform Mars or Venus into New Krypton, or some other planet? Why Earth? Okay, let's say Zod's a crazy racist or that only Earth will do because technobabble. But even then, his pitch kind of sucks.

"Hey, Kal-El! Now you might have gotten a bad impression of me from my gratuitously menacing and scary message where I imply I'm going to kill you as soon as we meet. But since you gave yourself up for the good of your adoptive race, it's clear to me that you care greatly for them. So can you help me turn this entire planet into a NIGHTMARE GRAVEYARD OF SKULLS? I even came up with a VR presentation, so you can properly appreciate how NIGHTMARISH this GRAVEYARD OF SKULLS will be! Worked on it myself!

"...huh looks like Kal-El doesn't want to work with us, so we'll have to fight him, and risk destroying the priceless data that's the last hope for our race. After we were so nice to him as well!"

I think actually watching the film answers most of your issues.

Zod and company don't know that the codex is in Clark's cells when they capture him. That vision with Zod happens during a mind probe...a persuasive argument isn't needed when they're digging around in your memories. The mind probe is made completely clear by Lois's comment after Clark saves her from the escape pod. That's why Zod goes to Smallville while Clark is still on the ship...they pulled the location of the Kent farm from their minds. The Kryptonians don't think they need Clark other than to tell them where the codex is, and once they have the info from the probes, they assume it's in his ship on the farm. It's after Clark escapes that Zod finds it isn't, and that Jax-Ur realizes the codex is in Clark's cells.

Why Earth? Well, why not? At the end, Zod has everything he needs...planet in the habitable zone, world engine, codex, birthing chamber from the scout ship. It's all right there on Earth. Why spend the resources to search for another acceptable system? In order to preserve the Earth's population? It's made abundantly clear throughout the film that Zod has no more regard for humanity than we do for ants.

I thought Zod's actions toward Clark were logical and consistent. Zod gave Clark a brief chance to get on board with the program, and given Zod's purpose he probably wouldn't kill any Kryptonian he didn't have to. But he also wasn't going to let Clark stand in his way for even a second or spend time debating with him since the survival of their race was hanging in the balance.

Evidently the Kryptonians had attempted to colonize worlds before and failed. Hence his earlier statements about only finding death.

 Frazzled wrote:
Evidently the Kryptonians had attempted to colonize worlds before and failed. Hence his earlier statements about only finding death.

The colonies themselves were successful. We actually see them during the whole spiel.

"Something" happened to them. Hence the "only finding death"; they find Kryptonian corpses in what looks like a battle sequence.
It's heavily implied in material surrounding the movie that the "Something" was Brainiac.

I still don't get why Zod was so aggressive? I mean, that whole part of the plot just makes no sense to me at all.

It basically boiled down to 'gives us Supes, or we'll knack your planet', followed by 'gimme the Codex, or we'll knack the planet'.

No attempt to pretend to be a good guy. Where was the attempts at negotiation, regardless of his pre-determined outcome? Perhaps 'hey, you're not alone Kal-El. Come with us. Come with us and help found New Krypton. We have the tech. You have the Codex. We can do this together'

Then have Supes, who would likely figure 'not a bad idea, actually' find a further hologram of his Dad that explains who Zod actually is etc.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Evidently the Kryptonians had attempted to colonize worlds before and failed. Hence his earlier statements about only finding death.

The colonies themselves were successful. We actually see them during the whole spiel.

"Something" happened to them. Hence the "only finding death"; they find Kryptonian corpses in what looks like a battle sequence.
It's heavily implied in material surrounding the movie that the "Something" was Brainiac.

Interesting (yes I remember the scene). Can you add more color on what material surrounding the movie?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Evidently the Kryptonians had attempted to colonize worlds before and failed. Hence his earlier statements about only finding death.

The colonies themselves were successful. We actually see them during the whole spiel.

"Something" happened to them. Hence the "only finding death"; they find Kryptonian corpses in what looks like a battle sequence.
It's heavily implied in material surrounding the movie that the "Something" was Brainiac.

That was some good groundwork being laid there.

In other news, Matt Reeves has now officially agreed to direct The Batman after all. Here I thought the buzz that talks could resume was just studio spin, but I guess something was going on after all. And apparently Affleck made a tweet which suggests he's still on board to act.

http://collider.com/the-batman-matt-reeves-ben-affleck/

Also, the director of Lego Batman will be developing a Nightwing movie.

http://collider.com/nightwing-movie-chris-mckay/

I'm a bit iffy on the Nightwing movie to be honest. Grayson is a great character, but I think he works so much better bouncing off Bruce/Robin/Batgirl/The Titans than he does on his own. It could still be fun, but I'm not convinced he's lead material (though in fairness, I've not read much NW solo stuff). On the other hand, any opportunity to establish a proper Bat-family on the big screen is very welcome.

I do wonder how many more films DC can take on though. They've already got slots booked until 2020, and that's without dates for Batman, MoS 2, Suicide Squad 2, Harley solo film, the Black Adam spinoff and now Nightwing... it's possible they're getting a bit ahead of themselves at this point.

I'd kinda rather see Nightwing as a guest in Arrow rather than a film.

The way I understand Nightwing is he's basically DC's equivalent of an early 20's Spider-man.

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm a bit iffy on the Nightwing movie to be honest. Grayson is a great character, but I think he works so much better bouncing off Bruce/Robin/Batgirl/The Titans than he does on his own. It could still be fun, but I'm not convinced he's lead material (though in fairness, I've not read much NW solo stuff). On the other hand, any opportunity to establish a proper Bat-family on the big screen is very welcome.

I do wonder how many more films DC can take on though. They've already got slots booked until 2020, and that's without dates for Batman, MoS 2, Suicide Squad 2, Harley solo film, the Black Adam spinoff and now Nightwing... it's possible they're getting a bit ahead of themselves at this point.

Well, nothing's a reality until they start shooting. I tend to think that anything past Aquaman that isn't named "Batman" will depend greatly on how WW and JL are received this year. There are people already gearing up to bash those movies, so they might have to be really special to overcome the negativity.

It's also possible that Nightwing, Gotham City Sirens, and SS2 are evidence of WB's backup plan. Namely, if they can't have a full DCEU, they'll just move ahead on a B(atman)EU.