Song of Ice & Fire Minatures Game by CMON - KS successful (pg 19)

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**AndrewGPaul**

SickSix wrote:
I will definitely want an Aria Stark model. I think I would be interested only as collection pieces. But the final models better be top notch.

Dark Sword already make all the characters and more, if you just want to paint one or two.

**twincast**

My money's on Baratheon vs. Tyrell for the second starter set, mainly because it would complete the central players at the start of the War of the Five Kings (in the central part of Westeros, to boot).

And if you take a gander at the decoration to both sides of the logo, you can see a rose, a wolf, a lion, a kraken, a trout, a three-headed dragon, a crowned stag, a falcon, a bear, and a sun (with eight spears poking out of it). It's probably safe to assume the bear is supposed to represent either the free folk or the Night's Watch under Jeor's rule (as House Mormont really isn't important enough), and the other nine symbols cover all the Great Houses, which I'd guess to be the goal a few years down the road. Plus hedge knights and Essosi mercenaries as neutral units. And Others might come one day (after A Dream of Spring's release). Maybe Children etc. for prehistoric battles as well.

The problem I see with pre-assembled miniatures with molded sigils in this respect are major subfactions. Most of all the three coats of arms of House Baratheon at the time: Traditional Baratheon, R'hllorian Baratheon, and Lannister-Baratheon. The Boltons are also big enough to warrant the option of being played, yet share the same unit pool as the Starks. Normally one would do transfer sheets and/or release conversion kits, but that isn't really feasible here. Blackfyres on the other hand obviously pose no issue at all, being nothing but a color swap.

Anyway, I'm sorely tempted to get the (first?) two starter sets, assuming I'm correct about them, but beyond that the only army that has any real chance of being collected by me is unbowed, unbent, unbroken.

Tamereth wrote:
Based on the books - looks nothing like the characters / imagery I'm expecting.

Thank the Seven.

**Zywus**

judgedoug wrote:
re: Pommelgate

There are clearly fingers on that hand, and you can clearly see the shadows, and you can clearly see how the user's gakky cameraphone's flash has filled the recessed with light, eliminating the depth and creating the illusion of smoothness.
Notice his left upper thigh. You think that's smooth too?

Primarily, do you think a sculptor would create a model with a bajillion undercuts and fine chainmail detail but not put in the fingers? "gak guys I was so busy with sculpting nostrils and ear-hair that I forgot to sculpt the fingers. And no one noticed, until this astute - and handsome and intelligent - stranger took a pic with his cameraphone!"

I get your point, and I agree that 'bad photo' is a reasonable explanation in this case.

That said, regardless of how top-notch your sculpting is; if the casting is not up to par you can end up with a mini where some parts have retrained all the sculpted detail and some parts that's just blobs. So I wouldn't be that dismissive if I were you.

**Sining**

Zywus wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
re: Pommelgate

There are clearly fingers on that hand, and you can clearly see the shadows, and you can clearly see how the user's gakky cameraphone's flash has filled the recessed with light, eliminating the depth and creating the illusion of smoothness.
Notice his left upper thigh. You think that's smooth too?

Primarily, do you think a sculptor would create a model with a bajillion undercuts and fine chainmail detail but not put in the fingers? "gak guys I was so busy with sculpting nostrils and ear-hair that I forgot to sculpt the fingers. And no one noticed, until this astute - and handsome and intelligent - stranger took a pic with his cameraphone!"

I get your point, and I agree that 'bad photo' is a reasonable explanation in this case.

That said, regardless of how top-notch your sculpting is; if the casting is not up to par you can end up with a mini where some parts have retrained all the sculpted detail and some parts that's just blobs. So I wouldn't be that dismissive if I were you.

The render has no issues. DaveC showed it. If anything, it's a casting issue.

**ced1106**

Sining wrote:
If anything, it's a casting issue.

Yep. This *is* boardgame plastic we're talking about, so don't expect that much. The miniatures are also pre-assembled, which means mold lines that will be difficult to scrape (not that boardgame plastic makes it much easier), gaps that will have to be filled, the occasional gluing that will have too much glue, and the possible mis-gluing where the tab wasn't properly fitted into the slot. Oh, and the shield that gets in the way when you're trying to paint the thing.

Here're the DSM metal miniatures, including Arya Stark. $10 plus shipping. Much cheaper than the pledge will be. Nice wolves. : http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/miniatures/george-r-r-martin-masterworks.html?dir=asc&limit=all&order=name

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

Dice Monkey wrote:
No plans for Stannis?

we don't know...

eekamouse wrote:
Did anyone see if they mentioned movement? The trays are "sort of" off putting to me personally, but if it's also templated movement like X-Wing or RuneWars, I may just be out.

If it's "inches" and you can micromanage your movement a bit, I'll be more interested.

I heard (I think from your avatar's site lol) that it's templated movement. But CMON also implied that there are different rules for different game sizes. Some are speculated since the bases are round and that there may be a ruleset for skirmish size games. And I'd presume that is probably in inches.

Would be sweet...

twincast wrote:
My money's on Baratheon vs. Tyrell for the second starter set, mainly because it would complete the central players at the start of the War of the Five Kings (in the central part of Westeros, to boot).

I can see that. And I get that this is based on the books and not the show (I THINK I remember them giving a timeline too...but I also seem to remember saying it's kinda non-canon since you make your own battles?), but I'm guessing the 2nd starter to include Targaryen (for either sweet dragons or major fanboy characters like Khal Drogo and Daenerys), Baratheon (due to their major influence/involvement and fanboy characters - depending on the where in the books), or Greyjoys (due to major presence in the books). But I highly doubt Tyrell. Though I'd love that.

(btw, Houses/factions I'd choose to main, in order of preference are: Baratheon, Martell, Tyrell, Targaryen, Night's Watch)

**DaveC**

A few snippets from Michael Shinall posted on BGG.

The Kickstarter will focus on Starks and Lannisters. Given the nature of wargames, and how important the retail store is for their longevity, most items will be only released through retail so we can support them there.

Aside from Major Houses/Factions, there are a wealth of mercenaries/houses out there who would love to work for some coin or furthering their own goals...

Release-wise you'll see the same basic pattern most other wargames follow, with standard monthly releases of new units. Initial retail will have 4+ factions.

The Starter alone contains enough variety to play with various strategies, army compositions (while you have the same 4 units on each side, the various Attachments and Heroes you take will drastically change your tactics and play-style), and a full gambit of scenarios- so not every game is just "I'm going to kill all your guys before you kill mine". You'll have a good bit of variety in just that one package.

You will get some punchboard terrain in the starter- see our Wrath of Kings 2 Player Starter or the Dark Age Path to Glory 2 Player Starter.

Note that in this game you'll be fielding larger terrain pieces, and what I mean by that is don't expect things like tiny 1" hedges or...like barrels or whatever... terrain is a very important aspect of the battlefield, especially in rank-and-file combat, so it needs to have a substantial impact.

Standard size game should be played on a 4x4 (48in x 48in), with larger sized games pushed up to 6x4.

These are all new sculpts entirely, provided by CMON and approved by Dark Sword Miniatures. They are standard 28mm Heroic (ranging to 32, 38 and higher depending on unit), and to-scale with all current Dark Sword miniatures.

All units are approved by GRRM and Crew, and we've made full strives to make sure that anything that appears is in keeping with the source material.

So if it could appear in Westeros, it can appear here- but don't expect to see things like Mounted Direwolf Cavalry or Lannister Lion Tamers or anything like that.

If the unit would appropriately exist, then it might exist.

**Schmapdi**

Nice info - thanks! Will be eager to see what sort of terrain elements they have (if any) in the KS if it's so important.

**Pacific**

Many thanks for the info DaveC, don't know where you always get these gems from (both for this and all the other games) but is really appreciated !

Great to know that this isn't just going to be a splash release and will get some proper support. Also, that the scale is the same as the current Dark Sword minis (which are really lovely by the way, if you haven't seen them). Will be nice to get some character pieces painted up in the run up to the retail release!

**Shrapnelsmile**

Although I shouldn't be adding any more miniature games to my rotation, I'm torn between waiting for this vs. picking up Rune Wars in a few weeks.

**hotsauceman1**

This excites me for some reason. I love the show but never read the books. But a historical low-fantasy regimental combat looks cool and scratches an itch.
and I can dip them!!!!!

**ced1106**

Shrapnelsmile wrote:
Although I shouldn't be adding any more miniature games to my rotation, I'm torn between waiting for this vs. picking up Rune Wars in a few weeks.

You can always "wait and see" how RW does retail and with the reviews. GoT will also hit retail.

I think I'll skip both, since it'll take another four months to paint my undead KoW army.

**twincast**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
twincast wrote:
My money's on Baratheon vs. Tyrell for the second starter set, mainly because it would complete the central players at the start of the War of the Five Kings (in the central part of Westeros, to boot).

I can see that. And I get that this is based on the books and not the show (I THINK I remember them giving a timeline too...but I also seem to remember saying it's kinda non-canon since you make your own battles?), but I'm guessing the 2nd starter to include Targaryen (for either sweet dragons or major fanboy characters like Khal Drogo and Daenerys), Baratheon (due to their major influence/involvement and fanboy characters - depending on the where in the books), or Greyjoys (due to major presence in the books). But I highly doubt Tyrell. Though I'd love that.

(btw, Houses/factions I'd choose to main, in order of preference are: Baratheon, Martell, Tyrell, Targaryen, Night's Watch)

Greyjoys are certainly possible, but Targaryens? No way. Seriously, nope, none at all. Precisely because of the lack of suitable characters at the time at least all the early releases of the game will be set in.

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

twincast wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
twincast wrote:
My money's on Baratheon vs. Tyrell for the second starter set, mainly because it would complete the central players at the start of the War of the Five Kings (in the central part of Westeros, to boot).

I can see that. And I get that this is based on the books and not the show (I THINK I remember them giving a timeline too...but I also seem to remember saying it's kinda non-canon since you make your own battles?), but I'm guessing the 2nd starter to include Targaryen (for either sweet dragons or major fanboy characters like Khal Drogo and Daenerys), Baratheon (due to their major influence/involvement and fanboy characters - depending on the where in the books), or Greyjoys (due to major presence in the books). But I highly doubt Tyrell. Though I'd love that.

(btw, Houses/factions I'd choose to main, in order of preference are: Baratheon, Martell, Tyrell, Targaryen, Night's Watch)

Greyjoys are certainly possible, but Targaryens? No way. Seriously, nope, none at all. Precisely because of the lack of suitable characters at the time at least all the early releases of the game will be set in.

I can see that, but like I said, I thought it was implied this game is non-canon. CMON will eventually have to release an army w/ Dany and dragons and Drogo and horserider dudes. Or sub in Unsullied. Either way, we're talking dragons here. They'll sell. I don't see why CMON would avoid that.

**LuciusAR**

Given that GOT is largely low fantasy with the combatants virtually all human I'm not sure what a dedicated set of rules and miniatures could offer over the already large amount of medieval rules and miniatures that are already out there.

**Hanskrampf**

LuciusAR wrote:
Given that GOT is largely low fantasy with the combatants virtually all human I'm not sure what a dedicated set of rules and miniatures could offer over the already large amount of medieval rules and miniatures that are already out there.

Well, there's a bit of magic, some magic weapons and some other fantasy stuff like Undead, Shapeshifters, etc. I don't think the rules will be anything ground-breaking, but having more dedicated miniatures and plastic basic infantry for ASOIAF is nice. Besides, G.R.R. Martin seems to be a miniature nerd like the rest of us, according to the Dark Sword page. So he may be a driving force behind it.

**JOHIRA**

LuciusAR wrote:
Given that GOT is largely low fantasy with the combatants virtually all human I'm not sure what a dedicated set of rules and miniatures could offer over the already large amount of medieval rules and miniatures that are already out there.

Boobies -> branding.

**ced1106**

LuciusAR wrote:
Given that GOT is largely low fantasy with the combatants virtually all human I'm not sure what a dedicated set of rules and miniatures could offer over the already large amount of medieval rules and miniatures that are already out there.

GoT will add political rules. http://geekandsundry.com/our-exclusive-preview-of-cmon-games-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/

**Mr Morden**

ced1106 wrote:
LuciusAR wrote:
Given that GOT is largely low fantasy with the combatants virtually all human I'm not sure what a dedicated set of rules and miniatures could offer over the already large amount of medieval rules and miniatures that are already out there.

GoT will add political rules. http://geekandsundry.com/our-exclusive-preview-of-cmon-games-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/

Must admit that's the main bit that has piqued my interest thus far.

**Pacific**

I think other people will have their interests 'piqued' by other things..

(sorry that was terrible..)

**twincast**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
twincast wrote:
Greyjoys are certainly possible, but Targaryens? No way. Seriously, nope, none at all. Precisely because of the lack of suitable characters at the time at least all the early releases of the game will be set in.

I can see that, but like I said, I thought it was implied this game is non-canon. CMON will eventually have to release an army w/ Dany and dragons and Drogo and horserider dudes. Or sub in Unsullied. Either way, we're talking dragons here. They'll sell. I don't see why CMON would avoid that.

Dany's Essosi troops are neither Targaryen nor in Westeros, and what CMON would or wouldn't avoid is entirely academic speculation as unlike with the TV show, Martin actually has last say on this one. We'll see what if any future and/or past events they'll incorporate as this game goes on, but for the time being it is set squarely in Westeros at the time of A Clash of Kings. Obviously the battles you play with the game are not canonical, wouldn't be even if Martin allowed for ASoIaF canon not written by his own hands, but that does not change the parameters of the setting. And dragons of rideable size as presented in the books uniquely break any semblance of balance unless both forces clashing have such, so absolutely do not expect them anywhen soon.

**Ian Sturrock**

Do we know who the designer is?

Eric Lang now has a permanent gig with CMON as head of game design, so if he's involved with this, which seems like a safe assumption, the rules should be top-notch.

**DaveC**

Michael Shinall (CMON Mr. Black) is the lead designer Eric Lang is helping with the development. This is tabletop game so it's more in Michaels area of speciality than Eric's

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/75733/michael-shinall

**Ian Sturrock**

Thanks. Sounds promising.

**Mr Morden**

twincast wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
twincast wrote:
Greyjoys are certainly possible, but Targaryens? No way. Seriously, nope, none at all. Precisely because of the lack of suitable characters at the time at least all the early releases of the game will be set in.

I can see that, but like I said, I thought it was implied this game is non-canon. CMON will eventually have to release an army w/ Dany and dragons and Drogo and horserider dudes. Or sub in Unsullied. Either way, we're talking dragons here. They'll sell. I don't see why CMON would avoid that.

As unlike with the TV show, Martin actually has last say on this one. .

Oh God - that means loads of dull, useless characters that he loves to churn out rather than the good ones he created early on....

Do we know the full terms of the licence, hopefully they will have some wiggle room?

**Freytag93**

I'm hesitantly excited for this. I've only ever done 1 KS, but depending on what we see for the kickstarter, this may become my second.

**twincast**

Mr Morden wrote:
Oh God - that means loads of dull, useless characters that he loves to churn out rather than the good ones he created early on....

Do we know the full terms of the licence, hopefully they will have some wiggle room?

Me vehemently disagreeing with that assessment aside, what's that actually got to do with the game? Like, at all?

What sort of wiggle room? CMON do their design thing, run every miniature by Dark Sword who presumably have developed a solid idea of what George likes and doesn't like and check their final passes with him, and after that all pans out it enters production. So visually it's very tight. Setting-wise they've IMNSHO not been 100% clear so far whether they've merely decided to focus exclusively on the War of the Five Kings for now as an easily selling starting point or whether the licence currently indeed only includes that aera and area. Any and all HBO stuff is thankfully off-limits. And gameplay-wise, other than liking CMON's pitch over others' to begin with and maybe an early high level decision or two, Martin and/or Dark Sword are presumably leaving them alone to do their thing.

**Mr Morden**

twincast wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Oh God - that means loads of dull, useless characters that he loves to churn out rather than the good ones he created early on....

Do we know the full terms of the licence, hopefully they will have some wiggle room?

Me vehemently disagreeing with that assessment aside, what's that actually got to do with the game? Like, at all?

What sort of wiggle room? CMON do their design thing, run every miniature by Dark Sword who presumably have developed a solid idea of what George likes and doesn't like and check their final passes with him, and after that all pans out it enters production. So visually it's very tight. Setting-wise they've IMNSHO not been 100% clear so far whether they've merely decided to focus exclusively on the War of the Five Kings for now as an easily selling starting point or whether the licence currently indeed only includes that aera and area. Any and all HBO stuff is thankfully off-limits. And gameplay-wise, other than liking CMON's pitch over others' to begin with and maybe an early high level decision or two, Martin and/or Dark Sword are presumably leaving them alone to do their thing.

Its a direct reply to your reply discussing what would and would not be in the game - this is a forum I assume others are allowed to express thier views on a driection of travel that the game and its minis might be taking????????

I think we have both expressed a view on the later books and the current show and they are polar opposites.

Thank you for the info on what might be CMON's ability to produce minis.

**skrulnik**

SickSix wrote:
I will definitely want an Aria Stark model. I think I would be interested only as collection pieces. But the final models better be top notch.

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/miniatures/george-r-r-martin-masterworks/arya-stark-on-the-run.html

**DaveC**

Pictures from CMoN Expo source Gamewirewarrior on Twitter https://twitter.com/GameWireWarrior