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Cawl is a named character (don't really like those), gives a bonus that is basically wasted because my Mechanicus is not from Mars (I COULD say that they are... but they are blue), and I don't want to paint this model haha And as you will see in my battle report having regenerative Wounds is only cool if you get to roll those. Too much points for a single dude in my opinion. We'll definitely need some form of chaff to give more targets to the enemy.

What kind of attacks are you counting for the Kastellans ? Shots ? Reroll because of the Canticles/Techpriest Dominus ?

Battle report everyone, I fought today in V8 with the list I put in another post. My opponent chose to play Ynnari instead of his Daemons, which was fine by me, I never tailor my lists anyway. So, 1350 pts. His list was made of the following (quantities may vary I don't exactly remember):
- Asurmen and Jain Zarr
- 1 Harlequin Troupe Master (I think) and 4 Troupes with Melta pistols on Starweaver
- 5 Harlequin Troupes with Melta Pistols on Starweaver
- 5 Harlequin Troupes on foot with a Troupe Master
- 12 or 15 Skyweavers (motojets) by packs of 3
- 20 Avengers by packs of 5
- 5 Banshees
Maybe some other stuff, don't remember. All played with Ynnari rules with the Soulburst stuff. 4 Objectives to be held at the end of game. I had mistaken the models I took and deployed two units of 5 rangers instead of one of 8, so was 27 points above the limit, I saw that only after the game but it didn't mattered very much.

I deployed my Techpriest in a crater, surrounded by the 10 Vanguards and with the Onager behind him, so that they could benefit of rerolls of 1 and so that I had +2 Ld in total. I chosed the Warlord Trait that let's you ignore a unsaved Wound on a 6. My Destroyers were deployed each on a different level in a ruin so that they were in cover and had nice LoS, with the Robots on their left flank, accompanied by the Datasmith. I completely forgot about the Infiltration of the Infiltrators, and just hid them behind a wall of a ruin, where were deployed my Rangers with the snipers on the "roof". The Dragoon was on their right flank.

I got first turn, so I chose to roll my Canticles and got the one that gives you cover all turn. I used the Protector protocol but now that I'm thinking about it, I applied it right away each time all game :x I'll be more careful in the future. Anyway, I moved the Dragoon to its death by inadvertance by forgetting that I don't add 3" to my charge, meaning I had to roll a 12" charge on my target. I kept my Priest and his Vanguards there, and only moved the Onager to have a LoS on the Avengers. Shooting phase, one my Robots, thanks to his illegal protocol destroyed one of the Starweavers, killing one of the Troupes in the explosion. The other Robot didn't have more LoS sadly. To make short, I killed a few avengers and some bikes, and have to highlight my Arquebii that didn't hit ONCE through all the game. Then come the charges where I fail the one of the Dragoons obviously, but he's unscarred for now. Then on his first turn he killed my poor Dragoon with his Melta spam from the Starweaver and the guys inside, and he doesn't even explode. Thanks to Soulburst he does more stuff and in the end he kills some more of my guys but nothing dramatic until then.

After all that, I roll cover Canticle again, put on the Conqueror protocols because everything is coming way too fast in my face, I kill some bikes and a nice chunk of Avengers, and try out my Sicarians in melee against some bikes. I rolled awfully but they're still alive mostly and still killed some thanks to the Flechette Blasters. At this point there's Harlequins close to my Priest, so after a bit of shooting I decide to run my 4 Vanguards survivors on the last Troupe close to me and fail all my Hit rolls. On turn 3 there's his second Starweaver full of Melta that got really close to my Onager and promptly disintegrates him in two phases thanks to Soulburst. It becomes a real downhill battle for me when everything is getting closer to me, there's charges by the Banshees on my Techpriest and thanks to Jain Zarr, I can't even Overwatch. He loses his 6 Wounds in the fight (good thing he regenerates 1d3 Wounds each turn haha, couldn't even use it once) and so only survives one sniper, my Robots, Datasmith and my Destroyers at this point. The Kastelan club and the Datasmith successfully crush their targets in melee (a lone Avenger and 2 Banshees) but the Soulburst thing only accelerates my death because it makes him shoot his Melta-Wagon on my Robots that don't survive much longer after that. The Destroyers get shot to death shortly after and there I lost obviously.

So what I learned of this encounter was that I badly deployed, by wanting to benefit from the rerolls and the +2 Ld I just had a juicier target and a better Soulburst generator. He overwhelmed me with mobility, his superior numbers the number of shots and of course his CC units. Take note that I never lost anyone to Battleshock, neither did he. To me Ynnari looks broken as hell (never fought them before note) and what surprised me the most was the Melta wagon, but it seems it's a legal move. They're only 6" in range but on his Open-topped transport that goes 16" it's not a problem and he can shot them multiple times thanks to Soulburst.

As for my own army, I still believe Kastelan with guns are to keep far away on a nice position with Protector. They're good in CC, but if you really want to charge get some with Kastelan Fists to go and punch vehicles to death with their flat 3 Damage and Conqueror protocols. As for the Cognis Flamers they were surprinsingly deadly, even against a full 4++ army. The Grav-cannons were nice but almost nothing was a good target for them, and I had a -1 to Hit against the Transports, and even then they have a 4+ save so no D3 Damage. Can't really judge my Vanguards because they died so fast, neither can I judge the Snipers who would've been really nice if they could OPEN THEIR EYES when they shoot. The Rangers were average I guess but died too fast too. The Dunecrawler shot really well and tanked nicely (as did the Destroyers in cover), but I could've played him better I guess. Not sure about the Infiltrators, for their new cost they seem worth hit against light armoured targets. The Dragoon I failed miserably so no opinion either.

All in all I still believe my opponent's army was just broken but I don't want to really judge of it before a few games against this army, I didn't play very well and had bad rolls on critical moments. He could field 6 CP while I was stuck with the basic 3, that served to reroll.

Cawl give full re-rolls to hit.

Added Inquisition and completelly reformated my list builders with error handling and better usability

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8RVZpUTE4NnFZYm8

Going to play vs Tyranids on monday 1,5k with this list:
+3 CP list
Cawl
Dominus
3 Kataphron Destroyers 2 flamers
5 rangers
5 vanguard 1 plasma
5 ruststalkers
5 infiltrators 5 taser&flechette
1 datasmith
2 kastelan robots all phosphor
Onager Neutron
Onager Icarus+stubber

thoughts?

I'm thinking that doing the detachment giving 9 CP isn't too hard to do. I ran 4 squads of Vanguard and 2 squads of Rangers (though now I have to bust out the Arq dudes instead of the Arc dudes, because themes), however I'm unsure how to fill out the rest of the list without going too high in points. Is 1850 still going to be the standard? Hell if I know.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm thinking that doing the detachment giving 9 CP isn't too hard to do. I ran 4 squads of Vanguard and 2 squads of Rangers (though now I have to bust out the Arq dudes instead of the Arc dudes, because themes), however I'm unsure how to fill out the rest of the list without going too high in points. Is 1850 still going to be the standard? Hell if I know.

2000 pts at least to make a non-awful list
Cawl
Dominus x2
2x 5 Rangers
4x 5 vanguard
datasmith
infiltrators
ruststalkers
balistarii
dragoon
dragoon
onager icarus
onager phosphor
4 phosphor robots

Hmm. Really shame that the transonic blades are not any good, I think they're the better looking option. Good job with that playtesting GW! Oh well.

It's also interesting that you can now have a mix of weapons in Ruststalker and Infiltator squads. There's little practical benefit, but it's a nice option to have if you want to create more varied looking units.

 Crimson wrote:
Hmm. Really shame that the transonic blades are not any good, I think they're the better looking option. Good job with that playtesting GW! Oh well.

It's also interesting that you can now have a mix of weapons in Ruststalker and Infiltator squads. There's little practical benefit, but it's a nice option to have if you want to create more varied looking units.

You can also fill in points that way which is what I did

Hey another thing I noticed while playing earlier, the Dragoon is basically immune to Overwatch fire. It states "the shooting enemy must substract 1 from their To Hit rolls", effectively meaning that even if he rolls a 6, it's going to be a 5 and so won't work... I don't know if this was intended but I'll just leave this here.

Doesn't work against flamers obviously.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, concerning the game against Ynnari, it states on "Transports" rules that unless specifically stated, the embarked models cannot be affected in any way, even buff within a certain range, so no Soulbursting Meltaguys bullgak. Good to know.

Just had two games of 8th yesterday and thought Id give a couple thoughts on some Admech units that were in my list

I played against Chaos demons:
Changling
Magnus
Belakor
2 units of Spawn
3 units of Brimstones
2 Chariots
Heldrake
Maulerfiend
250pts worth of summoning


Admech units I played:

Sicarian Infiltrators mix of Power swords/stub carbines and taser goads/flechette: Rating C
I took 5. These guys were ok. They have a decent amount of attacks and a decent strength. The problem I have with them is they only have 2 wounds with a 6++ save. Any decent shooting weapon will kill a bunch. Higher toughness units means these guys were wounding less often.

Fulgurite Priests: Rating B
I took 9. Not a bad unit. 27 exploding 6's at str. 5 is decent. They also get a similar buff in CC. great for hordes or smaller units. Decent against higher toughness units due to the sheer amount of attacks. the 5++ and 5++ ignore wounds is AMAZING!

Corpuscarii Priests: Rating A
I took 9. Holy cow these guys are AWSOME! +2 strength with a -2 AP. On top of that they do D3 wounds per wound inflicted and 6's are D3 mortal wounds. the 5++ and 5++ ignore wounds is AMAZING!

Kastelan Robots w/3 Heavy Phosphor Blasters: Rating A+
I took 2 units of 2. TAKE THESE ASAP. With the shooting protocol each unit puts out 36 -2 AP ignoring cover wounds. decent in CC in a pinch. Loved this unit

Datasmiths: B-
I took 2. Not bad....Power fists and gamma pistols are ok. I think I got 1 in CC in both games. They did ok. They heal your robots and allow you to change your protocols on a 2+

I think the only things I would change is taking 1 unit of infiltrators and take an additional Fulgurites unit for only a 6pt difference

Enron wrote:

Admech units I played:

Sicarian Infiltrators mix of Power swords/stub carbines and taser goads/flechette: Rating C
I took 5. These guys were ok. They have a decent amount of attacks and a decent strength. The problem I have with them is they only have 2 wounds with a 6++ save. Any decent shooting weapon will kill a bunch. Higher toughness units means these guys were wounding less often.

Fulgurite Priests: Rating B
I took 9. Not a bad unit. 27 exploding 6's at str. 5 is decent. They also get a similar buff in CC. great for hordes or smaller units. Decent against higher toughness units due to the sheer amount of attacks. the 5++ and 5++ ignore wounds is AMAZING!

Corpuscarii Priests: Rating A
I took 9. Holy cow these guys are AWSOME! +2 strength with a -2 AP. On top of that they do D3 wounds per wound inflicted and 6's are D3 mortal wounds. the 5++ and 5++ ignore wounds is AMAZING!

Kastelan Robots w/3 Heavy Phosphor Blasters: Rating A+
I took 2 units of 2. TAKE THESE ASAP. With the shooting protocol each unit puts out 36 -2 AP ignoring cover wounds. decent in CC in a pinch. Loved this unit

Datasmiths: B-
I took 2. Not bad....Power fists and gamma pistols are ok. I think I got 1 in CC in both games. They did ok. They heal your robots and allow you to change your protocols on a 2+

I think the only things I would change is taking 1 unit of infiltrators and take an additional Fulgurites unit for only a 6pt difference

I think you mixed up the two Electro-priests' name, it's the Fulgurite who fights in CC with +2S. Glad to see they're doing alright as I thought.

Changed to 2k vs Tyranids pts after watching the frontline stream where they said that will be the norm for competitive.
+9CP
Cawl
Dominus
Dominus
5 rangers
5 rangers
5 vanguard 1 plasma (arc and sniper seem useless vs tyranids)
5 vanguard 1 plasma
5 vanguard 1 plasma
5 vanguard
Balistarii
Dragoon
Dragoon
5 infiltrators 5 flechete&tazer (don't have electro-priests yet)
5 ruststalkers
Datasmith
2 kastelan robots full phosphor (only have 2 of these)
onager neutron
onager icarus
onager icarus cognis (left over pts for cognis)

What do you guys think. I'd use electro instead of sicarians and more kastelans if I could :p

Edit: missed the fast attack :p

Looks solid. While I don't think Infiltrators are as good as they used to be, infiltrate when AdMech lacks much in the way of mobility is probably not something to overlook. I think our solution to a lot of problems is going to be 'more robots' for the forseeable future, however.

Or maybe I should just go with the Knight?
+3CP
Cawl
Dominus
5 rangers
5 vanguard 1 plasma
5 vanguard 1 plasma
5 infiltratos 5 taser
Datasmith
2 kastelan robots full phosphor (only have 2 of these)
Balistarii
Dragoon
Dragoon
onager neutron
onager icarus cognis (left over pts for cognis)
Crusader: thermal, melta, ironstorm missles

edit: whoops, can't take 4 Heavy support :p altered

So far on my order list I have 3 units of electro-priests, 2 units of kastelans. What else should I get ? :p A 4th start collecting?

Is there any niche left for Breachers?

changemod wrote:
Is there any niche left for Breachers?

Are you asking if they are good in 8th Edition or were you talking about the army list above ?

 Aaranis wrote:

changemod wrote:
Is there any niche left for Breachers?

Are you asking if they are good in 8th Edition or were you talking about the army list above ?

8th.

Well to me they look good enough, they really are specialised against Vehicles and MCs though, the Heavy Arc Rifle being able to roll 2D6 (in two shots) at 36" looks nice enough. The Torsion cannon is somewhat more specialised, because you only get one shot at 4+, but this shot is S8 and AP-4, for 1D6 Damage too. With a Strength of 8 you'll end up wounding on 3+ most medium vehicles, while the S6 from the Heavy Arc Rifle will wound on 5+ most of the time, something to consider. The Torsion Cannon is slightly more expensive at 22 pts against the 18 pts of the Heavy Arc Rifle.

I would not even consider their CC weapons because they'll never reach melee and if they do, they won't do much anyway.

I got a 1k point game in.

Took:
Cawl,
2 Robots all guns
Datasmith
5 Staff Priests
3 Destroyers with Plasma
10 Rangers with sniper

Went against Orks.

Cawl is pretty much used just for the reroll to the whole army. Warboss charged him and splattered him all over but got a solid 3 turns of reroll shooting.

Rangers were ok. Didn't get much use of the sniper weapon.

Priests died via shooting before they got to do anything

Destroyers rained down many plasma shots.

datasmith helped change the robots to double shooting and almost killed the warboss on a charge but wiffed.

Robots were amazing. Like said before 36 rerollable STR 6 shots is amazing. Plan to grab atleast 4 more.

Hoping to try the tank Friday in a 2k point game. Over all good fun

Do we agree the Nuetron laser is the best all-around choice for the dunecrawler?

 axisofentropy wrote:
Do we agree the Nuetron laser is the best all-around choice for the dunecrawler?

I kind of like the Icarus array!

Gak Attack wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
Do we agree the Nuetron laser is the best all-around choice for the dunecrawler?

I kind of like the Icarus array!

The sheer -number- of shots is good enough to overcome the penalty, yes. And flying is a lot more common now too.

I wouldn't bother with phosphor: Robots can do that particular niche better.

Eradication is still terrible, right? Don't have time to mathhammer. Busy writting chaos rules summaries and crying how bad they are

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Eradication is still terrible, right? Don't have time to mathhammer. Busy writting chaos rules summaries and crying how bad they are

range determines Hits/Damage Long 1d6/1d3 AP-2 or Short 1d3/1d6 AP-4, averaging 7 S8 checks either way...

Heavy Bolter servitors seem like a nice cheap source of slightly better than infantry firepower at long range. Just stick them near a tech preist who was going to stand there and buff things anyhow.

What type of Knight do you think meshes well with Mechanicus now that Skitarii and the Cult are in one book?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Eradication is still terrible, right? Don't have time to mathhammer. Busy writting chaos rules summaries and crying how bad they are

Well, people like the Battlecannon on the Russ and the ranged version of the ray has its profile copied, on a 3+ to hit platform with easy access to reroll 1's.

Close range its a d3 meltagun.

Only 120 for it. I think I might throw one in at some point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anauteus wrote:
What type of Knight do you think meshes well with Mechanicus now that Skitarii and the Cult are in one book?

I'm planning on a Paladin/Errant for easy modeling work. I feel like we need something to hit things with a big ole chainsword.

And just so I'm not missing anything, there is no way to repair a knight with existing rules, correct?

changemod wrote:
Heavy Bolter servitors seem like a nice cheap source of slightly better than infantry firepower at long range. Just stick them near a tech preist who was going to stand there and buff things anyhow.

in the unit of 4 servitors, half can't replace their expensive servo-arm. This keeps the total unit cost too high.

The general order of units from awesome to meh is this. Thoughts?
Kastelans
Onagers
Cawl
Fulgurites
Balistarii
Corpuscarii
Dragoons
Infiltrators
Datasmith
Dominus
Ruststalkers
Enginseer
Vanguard
Rangers
Destroyers
Breachers
Servitors

What's the basis for your judgement on Infitrators, Dominii, and Dragoons?

I don't think Destroyers are as bad as you say, they are still very effective anti-vehicle/monster.

Without the Datasmith the Kastelans are meh.

Cawl is only good if you have a Mars list, which most of us don't...

I'd break it up based upon unit type, so your list, with no changes in rank:
HQ Elite Troop FA HS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cawl Fulgurite Vanguard Ballistarii Kastelan Dominus Corpuscarii Rangers Dragoons Onager Inflitrators Destroyers Datasmith Breachers Ruststalkers Enginseer Servitor

Ah, wonderful... I have all the bad units...