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trogger87 wrote:
What are your thoughts on 2 squads of trueborn with dark lances in a raider? 5 dark lance shots is attractive but 305 points is not

For 310 pts. you get two DL Ravagers. That yields much better durability, 1 more DL, and normal accuracy on the move.

Yeah if you have dudes in transports i'd say rapid fire and assault weapons esp. are much better on infantry inside them.

Anyway i played a few games and i'm not up to par yet. It's still very new for me and i haven't checked everything. For some reason i'm heavily considering getting hellions though (the previous worst unit of 7th edition). I feel like they might actually be ok now. You might even get a turn one charge if you're lucky and choosing combat drugs helps too.

Void raven seems to suck now. I thought the void mine would be good and it is but the issue is when it deploys turn one most juicy targets are mounted in transports or something and most of the rest of the voidraven attacks are just garbage.

I find scourge to be alright, reavers are way overpriced for what they do now (nerfed big time) and ravagers seem really good. I'm mixed on venoms because now they need to be closer to the enemy to get a lot of shots. Basically venoms do ok damage, are harder to hit and don't take vehicle degradation but a few multi wound attacks against it and it will fall hard. Ravagers seem really good now btw.

Also if i'm not wrong a vehicle moving normally counts for the infantry moving so infantry inside can shoot as per after moving if a vehicle didn't go flat out. If it did assault weapons should still be able to shoot on the warriors themselves.

Hellions are certainly better than before but still quite weak in close combat. That 2 damage is nullyfied by their low S and AP, they don't have a lot of attacks either. And they're quite vulnerable to any kind of firepower as well.

With only S4 with no ap the ideal hellions' targets are infantries but then their 2D becomes useless. Against multiwounds models they won't do anything, since wounding on 5s and with no AP means very little unsaved wounds.

I haven't found a room for hellions yet, not even in a 2000 points full wych cult list. I still prefer bikes, that says all.

Voidraven bombers are quite good actually, razorwing jetfighters are effective as well.

Hellions aren't bad, especially with the +1A combat drug, but at 17ppm for T3, 5+ they are still very much overpriced.

 Imateria wrote:
Hellions aren't bad, especially with the +1A combat drug, but at 17ppm for T3, 5+ they are still very much overpriced.

I think the issue is that they cost as much as elite units, yet their stats are what you'd expect from a ~5pt horde unit.

They also lack focus, in that they have a bit of shooting and a bit of melee, but they're not good at either (especially given their cost).

 vipoid wrote:


I think the issue is that they cost as much as elite units, yet their stats are what you'd expect from a ~5pt horde unit.

They also lack focus, in that they have a bit of shooting and a bit of melee, but they're not good at either (especially given their cost).

I'm thinking they're meant to be suicide squads and/or throwaway harassers. 10 of them with the +1A combat drug will mathematically kill 2 terminators per turn just in melee. Problem is that's 170 points, a terribly expensive suicide squad.

That said, with their fancy fall back shoot charge rule, if you get them in the backlines tying up a tank or something with big guns, they can do alright. If they came on from a table edge or something they might almost be worth it.

But, same as everything else in our list, they're just too expensive for what they do.

So, I just picked up a friend of mine's DE for a steal, and then on top of that, picked up sprues for about 30 Kabalites, also at steal, and I'm getting ready to do some stripping, remodelling, and painting, and I'm trying to figure out from all this what I should do with all these models and what I should aim for as far as lists.

So, all together, I'll probably have about 50 bodies worth of Kabalites (right now I've just got to squads already assembled as full 10s with power sword/blast pistol, blaster, dark lance, 7 splinter). From what I'm seeing, it seems like there's more value in running Trueborn than Warriors, and where you do run Warriors, small, unaltered squads just to hold objective were best, and dark lances aren't really worth the points for Trueborn, so I'm planning on just running 5 man squads with blasters and agonizer/blast pistol)

I've got 10 Wyches, 1x hydra gauntlets, 1x shardnet and impaler, 1x razorflails. From what I'm seeing, it seems like Wyches are worthless, but I keep seeing mixed things on whether Hekatrixes are.

I have 15 Reavers, right now every third is equipped with a heat lance, but I'm getting the impression that for the points and utility, blasters would be better, and I'm wondering if grav-talons are worthwhile.

15 Hellions,

I've got 10 scourges, which came to me kitted out in 5 man squads, each with one shredder, one blaster, one dark lance, and one heat lance. Based on a lot of what I'm seeing, should I re-outfit them to just have their standard shardcarbines, maybe splinter cannons, for a more anti-infantry deep-striking unit, and save the expensive weapons for units in vehicles?

5 incubi, trying to figure out if they're worth the points or not. I like the damage they do...I don't like how easy they die.

I've got a Crimson Hunter I'm converting into a Razorwing, in an anti-infantry setup, 2 disintegrator cannons and a splinter cannon

Other than that, I've just got 3 raiders (disintegrator cannons), a ravager (3 lances), 2 Archons (1 huskblade and blast pistol, one agonizer and splinter pistol), and I'm gonna kitbash together a Succubus.

Any thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
Hellions are certainly better than before but still quite weak in close combat. That 2 damage is nullyfied by their low S and AP, they don't have a lot of attacks either. And they're quite vulnerable to any kind of firepower as well.

With only S4 with no ap the ideal hellions' targets are infantries but then their 2D becomes useless. Against multiwounds models they won't do anything, since wounding on 5s and with no AP means very little unsaved wounds.

I haven't found a room for hellions yet, not even in a 2000 points full wych cult list. I still prefer bikes, that says all.

Voidraven bombers are quite good actually, razorwing jetfighters are effective as well.

I've noticed that in the couple games I've played with my DE so far. I love the Hellions, they're great models and they -seem- so great, but I can't get around the fact that I'm either wasting a damage on MEQ whose toughness and save they can actually get through, or I'm just wasting my time wailing on termies who they could kill if it wasn't for that 2+. The so-so firepower I don't mind, I just wish they had a bit of AP on those hellglaives.

Blasters and grav talons for reavers are solid options, I certainly prefer blasters over lances.

Wyches are not worthless but they need to be played very carefully and with a list that has synergy with them. Same for the incubi, they can be an effective anti elites tool but they're far from being auto-take options in a drukhari list.

The trueborn with blasters are a very solid option though, 5 man squads of warriors in venoms are not bad either.

AnFéasógMór wrote:
So, I just picked up a friend of mine's DE for a steal, and then on top of that, picked up sprues for about 30 Kabalites, also at steal, and I'm getting ready to do some stripping, remodelling, and painting, and I'm trying to figure out from all this what I should do with all these models and what I should aim for as far as lists.

1) So, all together, I'll probably have about 50 bodies worth of Kabalites (right now I've just got to squads already assembled as full 10s with power sword/blast pistol, blaster, dark lance, 7 splinter). From what I'm seeing, it seems like there's more value in running Trueborn than Warriors, and where you do run Warriors, small, unaltered squads just to hold objective were best, and dark lances aren't really worth the points for Trueborn, so I'm planning on just running 5 man squads with blasters and agonizer/blast pistol)

2) I've got 10 Wyches, 1x hydra gauntlets, 1x shardnet and impaler, 1x razorflails. From what I'm seeing, it seems like Wyches are worthless, but I keep seeing mixed things on whether Hekatrixes are.

3) I have 15 Reavers, right now every third is equipped with a heat lance, but I'm getting the impression that for the points and utility, blasters would be better, and I'm wondering if grav-talons are worthwhile.

4) 15 Hellions,

5) I've got 10 scourges, which came to me kitted out in 5 man squads, each with one shredder, one blaster, one dark lance, and one heat lance. Based on a lot of what I'm seeing, should I re-outfit them to just have their standard shardcarbines, maybe splinter cannons, for a more anti-infantry deep-striking unit, and save the expensive weapons for units in vehicles?

6) 5 incubi, trying to figure out if they're worth the points or not. I like the damage they do...I don't like how easy they die.

7) I've got a Crimson Hunter I'm converting into a Razorwing, in an anti-infantry setup, 2 disintegrator cannons and a splinter cannon

8) Other than that, I've just got 3 raiders (disintegrator cannons), a ravager (3 lances), 2 Archons (1 huskblade and blast pistol, one agonizer and splinter pistol), and I'm gonna kitbash together a Succubus.

Any thoughts?

9) I've noticed that in the couple games I've played with my DE so far. I love the Hellions, they're great models and they -seem- so great, but I can't get around the fact that I'm either wasting a damage on MEQ whose toughness and save they can actually get through, or I'm just wasting my time wailing on termies who they could kill if it wasn't for that 2+. The so-so firepower I don't mind, I just wish they had a bit of AP on those hellglaives.

(I've added numbers so that I can respond point-by-point.)

1) Trueborn do indeed tend to be better than Warriors - mainly because they are much better at specialising.

Anyway, if you do use Warriors, I'd recommend using either 10 with a PGL, Blaster and Dark Lance in a Raider or else 2 squads of 5 with Blasters and PGLs in a Raider. The former gives you a long-range AT weapon, the latter has no penalty for moving and allows you to split your squad as and when needed.

I'd never use Blast Pistols. Their range is far too short to make them worthwhile - especially given how expensive they are.

2) Wyches are indeed pretty awful. If you want to try them, go for it. However, I strongly recommend that you make sure your list has a solid core before adding wyches to it.

3) Blasters are definitely better than Heat Lances at the moment, and Grav Talons are indeed worth it to try and give them some meaningful impact in combat. Unfortunately, Reavers in general are rather overpriced at the moment, but I wish you luck with yours.

4) I'm not a fan of these but I've suggested some tactics at #9.

5) Personally, I'd recommend equipping them with either Dark Lances or Blasters (maybe one of each). Shardcarbines are alright, but given that you can get the same effect on basic troops and transports it seems like a waste to have it on your special/heavy weapon squad. In terms of Dark Lances vs Blasters, Blasters are cheaper and allow you to move and fire without penalty, but also mean that your fragile Scourges will have to be closer to the action. Dark Lances want you to get into position and then stay there as much as possible. However, even when moving the d6 damage means they're still as effective as Blasters against most vehicles and MCs. Up to you. If you're interested, this topic has been discussed at length on www.thedarkcity.net.

6) I've heard a lot of people say that Incubi are out best melee unit. Personally, I'm not a fan of melee stuff due to our new transport rules (since we can no longer disembark after the transport moves). However, others seem to have had a lot of success with them so I can only assume that they're doing something right. Again, I'd suggest heading over to thedarkcity.net and asking for some advice there.

7) Razorwings are great in 7th.

8) Regarding your Archons, Blasters are vastly preferable to Blast Pistols (or splinter pistols), so if you can swap to those (or proxy them) I'd highly recommend doing so. Also, Agonisers are better than Huskblades, but this is far more minor (I'd consider Achons to be primarily shooting units in 8th, so their melee weapon is of secondary importance). Also, you might want to give one a Huskblade just to help differentiate them, so there's that.

Regarding Raiders, there are by far our best transport in 8th (since the Venom was nerfed to hell). I'd recommend getting more if you can. If your group allows proxies, I'd consider trying the Ravager with Disintegrators and seeing if you prefer them to Dark Lances (I mention it because Scourges, Trueborn and Warriors can all bring Dark Lances but only Raiders and Ravagers can bring Disintegrators - and they're very good this edition).

In terms of a Succubus, I think she's an awful HQ but each to their own. If you're looking to convert one, might I suggest starting with a Hellion's Hellglaive as the basis for her own Glaive? Also, it's quite easy to get a left-handed Splinter Pistol by cutting the body of a Splinter Pistol off a Wych's hand, cutting the blade off a Wych's knife and then gluing the two together.

9) Yeah, this is one of the reasons I don't like Hellions (the other is that they're an 18pt model with T3 and a 5+ save). Personally, I've always seen them as more of a shooty unit than a melee one. If you want a different target for them, have you considered throwing them at vehicles (shoot something else first, obviously)? Aside from damage 2, their weapons are awful against vehicles. However, even if you don't do much damage, you'll prevent that vehicle from shooting at all in your opponent's turn. What's more, if you can encircle said vehicle (and it doesn't have the Fly rule) then it can't Fall Back - meaning your Hellions will be effectively locked in combat (meaning your opponent can't shoot them). Same goes for any non-flying infantry unit that they successfully encircle.

I don't know if this tactic appeals to you, but I mention it because hellions are one of the few units fast and numerous enough to pull it off. Also, the best part is that if they do stay locked in combat, they can break away with no penalty and then shoot and assault again afterwards.


I hope at least some of this is helpful. Good luck and welcome to the Dark Side.

 vipoid wrote:


(I've added numbers so that I can respond point-by-point.)

Spoiler:

1) Trueborn do indeed tend to be better than Warriors - mainly because they are much better at specialising.

Anyway, if you do use Warriors, I'd recommend using either 10 with a PGL, Blaster and Dark Lance in a Raider or else 2 squads of 5 with Blasters and PGLs in a Raider. The former gives you a long-range AT weapon, the latter has no penalty for moving and allows you to split your squad as and when needed.

I'd never use Blast Pistols. Their range is far too short to make them worthwhile - especially given how expensive they are.

I can see what you mean with the blast pistols. I honestly don't know that I've ever actually fired on, they just came to me modeled that way. I should have no shortage of splinter pistols, tho.

Spoiler:

3) Blasters are definitely better than Heat Lances at the moment, and Grav Talons are indeed worth it to try and give them some meaningful impact in combat. Unfortunately, Reavers in general are rather overpriced at the moment, but I wish you luck with yours.

AnFéasógMór wrote:


I can see what you mean with the blast pistols. I honestly don't know that I've ever actually fired on, they just came to me modeled that way. I should have no shortage of splinter pistols, tho.

Blast pistols are good, even mandatory I'd say if you want to assault the unit. Kabalite warriors are only shooting guys, that's why their sybarite should be naked with no upgrades. However if you run wyches always include an hekatrix with agoniser and blast pistol. Give a blast pistol to the succubus too if you want to user her.

AnFéasógMór wrote:


So, with this, would you be recommending 1 DL, 1 Blaster per squad, and the rest with shardcarbines, or just splitting the whole squad evenly between DL and Blasters?

I'm sure he was recommending to take as many lances OR blasters you can stick in a single unit. Which means 5 scourges with 4 blasters OR with 4 dark lances. Mixing their loadout is not the best option since each weapon has a different style even if blasters and dark lances are both anti tanks.

Regarding Scourges, my suggestion is to run them in 5-man squads and give *every* model a Blaster or Dark Lance (except for the sergeant, obviously).

i.e.:
5 Scourges w/ 4x Dark Lance
or
5 Scourges w/ 4x Blaster

Being able to take 4 special or heavy weapons is typically the reason you're taking them in the first place, so I'd suggest making the most of it.

As for the sergeant, he can't take a heavy or special weapon, so either leave him with his Shardcarbine or give him a melee weapon and pistol as you choose. I certainly wouldn't aim for melee, but Agonisers are cheap and it may fit your fluff.

Blackie wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:


I can see what you mean with the blast pistols. I honestly don't know that I've ever actually fired on, they just came to me modeled that way. I should have no shortage of splinter pistols, tho.

Blast pistols are good, even mandatory I'd say if you want to assault the unit. Kabalite warriors are only shooting guys, that's why their sybarite should be naked with no upgrades. However if you run wyches always include an hekatrix with agoniser and blast pistol. Give a blast pistol to the succubus too if you want to user her.

AnFéasógMór wrote:


So, with this, would you be recommending 1 DL, 1 Blaster per squad, and the rest with shardcarbines, or just splitting the whole squad evenly between DL and Blasters?

I'm sure he was recommending to take as many lances OR blasters you can stick in a single unit. Which means 5 scourges with 4 blasters OR with 4 dark lances. Mixing their loadout is not the best option since each weapon has a different style even if blasters and dark lances are both anti tanks.

vipoid wrote:Regarding Scourges, my suggestion is to run them in 5-man squads and give *every* model a Blaster or Dark Lance (except for the sergeant, obviously).

i.e.:
5 Scourges w/ 4x Dark Lance
or
5 Scourges w/ 4x Blaster

Being able to take 4 special or heavy weapons is typically the reason you're taking them in the first place, so I'd suggest making the most of it.

As for the sergeant, he can't take a heavy or special weapon, so either leave him with his Shardcarbine or give him a melee weapon and pistol as you choose. I certainly wouldn't aim for melee, but Agonisers are cheap and it may fit your fluff.

Ah, I feel ya. So blasters for a more mobile unit, Lances for a more entrenched unit.

Exactly. Though, either way I'd probably start them in reserve.

For Blasters I'd drop them down near their target (ideally in cover) on whatever turn seems most appropriate.

For Dark Lances I'd probably drop them into cover in an area that's in range of their target (and has good LoS to other parts of the board), but which is hopefully also out of range of most enemies.

In essence, I'd probably deploy the Dark Lance scourges in the same sort of place I'd deploy a Devastator squad - except I'd deep-strike them there on my first turn.

This means they'll be hitting on 4s but will guarantee that they get at least one turn of shooting before the enemy can retaliate.

For Elite model hunting Blasters are better. For AT options DL's are better, even if you move and take the 4+ to hit, they still on average do the same damage, without moving they do move. 4 Blaster Scourges are very Niche and unless your local meta you know they work for.

The 2 main purpose of Scourge vs Ravagers is the "You deploy when you want", so you can make sure they are not shot at turn 1 if you go 2nd. And Scourges are the cheapest way to get more Lances, if you want large numbers of Lances then Scourges are the way to go.

Otherwise depending on your threats the Ravager might be better.

Another way to play Scourges is a fast DS/moving cheap AI unit. Something DE is lacking for cheap, for 70pts you get a good amount of poison, with DS and fly on assault weapons. Splinter cannons being 15pts themselves are not justified b.c cost vs fragility.

Edit: spelling and grammar

 Amishprn86 wrote:
For Elite model hunting Blasters are better. For AT options DL's are better, even if you move and take the 4+ to hit, they still on average do the same damage, without moving they do move. 4 Blaster Scourges are very Niche and unless your local meta you know they work for.

The 2 main purpose of Scourge vs Ravagers is the "You deploy when you want", so you can make sure they are not shot at turn 1 if you go 2nd. And Scourges are the cheapest way to get more Lances, if you want large numbers of Lances then Scourges are the way to go.

Otherwise depending on your threats the Ravager might be better.

Another way to play Scourges is a fast DS/moving cheap AI unit. Something DE is lacking for cheap, for 70pts you get a good amount of poison, with DS and fly on assault weapons. Splinter cannons being 15pts themselves are not justified b.c cost vs fragility.

Edit: spelling and grammar

Yeah, if more people around here were running things like Guard or Ork hoards, I'd probably take the shardcarbines and run more straight Kabs and just drown them out with splinter rifles, but people around here run a ton of termies, so I think those blaster Scourges are gonna do me better, especially because with so many people running tiny little Termie armies, they're more often than not gonna be beating me for finishing deployment first, so deep strike is gonna help me more than another Ravager (plus, y'know, I only have one at present, and this rather crotchety woman who lives in my house and berates me about only spending "reasonable" amounts of money on 40k; not sure what she's doing here, keeps claiming she's my wife).

I'm still working out kinks, but as far as utilizing what I've got currently or can make with what I've got, I think I'm starting to suss out a decent 2000 list (I mean, probably not a winning tournament list, but I've never put a ton of priority on that). Thinking I'll try running an Archon w/ blaster and agonizer, 3 5x squads of Kabs w/ blaster and PGL, 2 5-man Trueborn w/ blasters, 10 Hellions, using vipoids suggestion of using them to tie down vehicles, 9 reavers w/ blaster and grav-talons, Scourges w/ 4x blaster, scourges w/ 4x dark lance, ravager w/ 3x disintegrator, razorwing w/ disintegrators and splinter cannons, and 3 raiders with disintegrators.

I figure that way I can pop one squad of Kabs and one squad of trueborn each in 2 of the raiders, and have big, durable mobile platforms with a ton bunch of high ap dakka to take our termies, but still a bit of splinter fire for troops and taking advantage of the law of averages, pop the third squad of kabs and the archon in the thirds raider, for a bit smaller blaster platform, deep strike and entrench the dark lances on a nice covery spot, bring the blaster scourges and reavers in on separate flanks and try to knock out squads so that they're left in a bad position to retaliate, and use the hellions to tie down units.and to provide a bit more splinter fire.

Yeah if your fighting a lot of MEQ with 2 wounds and such then for sure Blasters/Lances are better.

If they have a few DSing units for sure Scourges will be better.

Dis Cannon Ravagers are amazing as well, but if you think they will focus it down as fast as they can, then yes another reason for Scourges

Just to chime in here a bit, witches are not that bad, but bloodbrides are a bit better for the cost since it's a small increase in price for an extra attack in cc. Same with the succubus, I have had good luck running her.

However I have a roll for them. And I take them in numbers.

20 bloodbrides, 1 succubus, 3 raiders with disintegrators. 2 squads of 10 get their own raiders, succubus gets the 3rd (sometimes I will also put some warriors in there for the why not, seems a waste to use a raider for 1 model but use what you have....)

They do exceptional for my intended target, which are large squads of genestealers. Their 4+ invulnerable save on top of 3 attacks per model and combat drugs (one squad gets +1 str, the other +1 attack) with the succubus granting rerolls and with her own drugs (+2" movement is what I normally give in case I need her to move without the raider) these ladies will put the hurt on something.

But they need a target worth the investment! Just taking a squad and throwing them out there is a bad game plan. My normal opponent takes a lot of genestealers, normally 20 to 30 in a game, and having something that removes the exploding 6's and can weather the storm of incoming attacks once they get into cc with me is important to me.

Oh, and if you do take them give them the max amount of hydra gauntlets you can, the other weapons are a joke but the hydra reroll failed wounds is very helpful.

So I am a veteran 40k gamer (marines, eldar, tau, admech [current army]) and I am interested in diving into Dark Eldar. I was wanting to get some feedback on my ideas for purchases to start out and my initial list I'm going to be building towards. I am thinking of getting the gangs of commoragh game, a start collecting box, a venom and a succubus or some scourge. Here's my initial list thought:

Archon - blaster
Succubus - stock
5 kabalites w/blaster (venom)
5 kabalites w/blaster (raider)
3 reavers - blaster, grav talon - champ w/agoniser
6 reavers - 2x blaster, 2x grav talon - champ w/agoniser
10 hellions - helliarch w/pistol & agoniser, grenade launcher
raider - lance, shock prow
venom - 2x cannons

I can get all this done for right around $200, and it totals up to just shy of 1000 points as a starter force. I could make the reavers one unit and bump them to t5 with their drugs and use them as my bubble wrap for t1 chargers/deep strikers and have a nice hard hitting counter attack.

Any thoughts on different purchases? I also could go the double start collecting box route for more kabalite bodies and I'd get 2 raiders in the boxes, but 2 archons isn't as good as 1 archon and 1 succubus imo. Thanks for the advice!

Wyches are excellent for certain things.

Assaulting dedicated assault units, locking up heavy weapon infantry, and that's it really.

Ironically wyches do better in assault versus Terminators than against tacticals or intercessors due to lack of pistols. Pistols kill wyches quite well due to the lack of saves in the shooting phase. 5 pistol shots from BS4 S4 kills 2 wyches a shooting phase with average rolling. For comparison it would take 10 normal attacks in fight phase with WS 3+ and S4.

Blast pistols aren't terrible, they are useful on things like archons and succubus as you are likely to have a chance to shoot before assaulting if they make it to assault at some point.

Venoms aren't as bad as people make them out to be, they only have 6 wounds but don't suffer degradation from damage, raiders lose a lot of move as they degrade. They also have -1 to be hit. They aren't the gunboats they used to be, and honestly taking the twin splinter rifle and splinter Cannon is probably better than dual splinter Cannon for points/effectiveness. It's not great, but it's not the garbage some people think it is. A raider that has taken 5 wounds is moving it's passengers 10+ and has BS4+. A venom that has taken 5 wounds is surely close to going down but is going 16" when it moves and firing at full BS.

For comparison sake it takes 6 unbuffed BS3 lascannon shots rolling average damage to kill a venom, assuming the venom makes no invulnerable saves. 6 lascannon shots will on average be what you need to kill a raider as well, although a raider is more likely to make one of the 3 saves versus the 2 the venom needs to make so slightly in favor of the raider. So in terms of survivability they are actually quite close thanks to venom having nightshields.

All that is 290$ retail USD, as for if it was a good buy? Sure. IDK if you get discounts at your local or not. But its about 33% off.

Looking to supplement my harlequins with some long range anti tank. Ravagers are tje obvious choice, but was also looking at the fliers. Is there any reason to take the razorwing over the voidraven? I know that fully loaded its a little pricier but the weapons also seem to be on the next level(excluding fixed diseintegrator damage vs dark scythe)!

Punisher23 wrote:
Looking to supplement my harlequins with some long range anti tank. Ravagers are tje obvious choice, but was also looking at the fliers. Is there any reason to take the razorwing over the voidraven? I know that fully loaded its a little pricier but the weapons also seem to be on the next level(excluding fixed diseintegrator damage vs dark scythe)!

For the Points Bombers are amazing, always take the Bomber from DE over anything else, and without missiles with the lances, here is the math so you can see.

Average damage (lances)
Bomber, Lance: 3.11 + Missiles 3.98 wounds
Ravager 3x DL's: 3.5 wounds
Jetfighter DL's: 3.11 wounds + Missiles 3.98

Average Dis/scythes
Bomber D-scythes: 3.56 wounds + Missiles 4.43
Ravager 3x DC: 3 wounds
Jetfighter 2x DC: 2.7 wounds + Missiles 3.57

Missiles

Bomber
Implosion: 0.4
Shatterfield: 0.87

Jetfighter
Monoscythe: 0.86
Shatterfield: 0.87


For 14pts the Bomber gets you a Bomb, 2 more wounds and a -1 to hit, for 25pts more you can almost do 1 more wound if you wanted. but i like it cheaper


Edit: Fixed numbers b.c i was rounding, but i decided not to round.


Edit: number 19772654801: For Dedicated AT, Fusion/Melta is best, if you only need to kill 1-2 large tanks then take Fire Dragons, if you need to kill lots of small Rhinos take Fusion Pistols, these are the netter of the 2 options, the problem comes from 1-2 larger tanks with 2-3 rhino sizes or 2-3 heavy fliers like storm ravens. If its a vehicle heavy army then you need lots of damage in general.
Another option is Smite, Shadowseers can put lots of wounds on vehicles, most vehicles are 1pt Lower LD than the Sargents (same as the troops for most armies) so you have a good chance with the Hallucination Grenades and with smite thats 2d3 mortal wounds per shadowseer. Doesnt sound a lot, but with it as back up you can kill vehicles faster.

Anyone have any thoughts on Mandrakes?

On paper they seem to have a lot going for them and I wouldn't mind making a small force with them as a focus.

 dan2026 wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on Mandrakes?

On paper they seem to have a lot going for them and I wouldn't mind making a small force with them as a focus.

Great in fun games, they are very hit or miss. If they were 4pts cheaper i think they be more viable. As is they cost a bit b.c they have rules bloat.

Pros:
DSing
-1 to hit
Invul
Cand o both Range and melee
Benefits from all PFP

Cons:
Mediocre damage
MW only on 6's with shooting
Low save (5++)
Slightly costly

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on Mandrakes?

On paper they seem to have a lot going for them and I wouldn't mind making a small force with them as a focus.

Great in fun games, they are very hit or miss. If they were 4pts cheaper i think they be more viable. As is they cost a bit b.c they have rules bloat.

Pros:
DSing
-1 to hit
Invul
Cand o both Range and melee
Benefits from all PFP

Cons:
Mediocre damage
MW only on 6's with shooting
Low save (5++)
Slightly costly

I think I pretty much agree with your accessment.
They are kinda at the mercy of rolling 6s. Both to get your mortal wounds in shooting and to make your PFP saves.
But with a bit of luck I think they could do well.

Mandrakes aren't worth taking in units of 5. Units of 10? That's another story. Good option for taking out infantry, whether they're bubble wrap or a Devastator squad sitting backfield. They can also put some mortal wounds and force a lot of saves on invuln units. Plus with PfP you can reroll that charge distance.

Are they super competitive? Nah. Are they a good choice in a semi-spicy TAC list? Absolutely.

So, after my AdMech codex has dropped and having played two games to try it out, I'd like to chill out a bit of my AdMech because it's confusing me greatly for list building and next purchases reasons. I'll soon get started on painting my Start Collecting Drukhari and so I'll start writing up lists again. What are you guys hoping for when the Aeldari codex releases, hopefully next ? Points reductions, rework of some profiles ? Any ideas for Kabal traits we might have or might be fun ? I'm hoping for a Kabal themed on Haemonculi myself, they're what I love the most about the Drukhari.

I thought it was an Eldar codex not Aeldari? (How I hate that name)

Yeah i think the voidraven is only optimal when you don't take the missiles. The missiles just don't do enough for their points. Also voidraven's only good build now is void lances. This loadout is 169 points and isn't too pricey though the model costs a lot of money. I mean it only costs about as much as a ravager when you think about it.

So i have a question for you guys that i'm unsure about. If i take trueborn and give them all blasters should i load them up in venoms or raiders? At first i thought venoms were the obvious choice but then i heard about how raiders can fit 2 units of 5 into them. I could get up to 8 blasters in one raider which really throws out firepower but becomes a bullet magnet. Also regardless of the vehicle degrading the guys inside don't have their shooting degraded so that's a plus. However the bonus with the venom is yeah you don't have as much troop capacity but it moves faster and has -1 to hit. Now when you do significant damage to vehicles with armies such as the imperial guard their shooting gets significantly worse. Basically the sweet spot is getting their shooting from a 4+ to a 5+ and the venoms are an extra -1 to hit so if they're anti-tank it's boosted to a 6+ to hit them. So suddenly shooting at venoms with vehicles/monsters is now an awful choice for the enemy vehicles/monsters. Venoms also throw out some ok shooting and don't degrade. My issue is venoms and raiders cost about the same amount. So venoms can get expensive really fast.

I'm also thinking wracks with haemonculus to boost them could be good since if he's nearby they become toughness 5 and become a pretty good unit for 10 pts per model.

Ravagers seem really good. Haven't tried out the dissie loadout yet because my other ravagers need to get built first. It should be good if you're facing plenty of primaris or other 2 wound models with decent armor (which there are a lot of).

I've been having a great time with scourge with heat lances, blasters, shardcarbines and possibly dark lances. Dark lance seem to work better on ravagers or with more scourge to take casualties sadly. Basically DS'ing with scourge is pretty much mandatory but when they come in they just destroy in loads. I almost completely cleaned off an enemy on my first turn with them since he didn't use his DS'ing squads yet. It was against grey knights and i killed his rhino, 2 squads of dudes inside and almost wiped out his 5 sisters of silence (he had one left). Only things he had left on the board at the end of turn one was inquisitor greyfax and one sister of silence. Anyway thanks to them and the ravagers i basically cleaned him off the board by end of turn 4 and held the relic. So yeah scourge and ravagers are amazing even if it was 1,000 points only and grey knights are point heavy. Not only that but you can deepstrike scourge into cover or fly them into cover and they can fly out of combat and shoot the enemy. So yeah they're a really good unit.