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As a tyranid player i strongly prefer 8th solution.

7th had the following problems:

1) 2/3 of the powers were useless, so you brought lot of psykers just to have a chance at getting the few useful powers.
2) Witch fires were largely useless, due to the enormous amount or rolls needed to finally get some wounds in (manifest, DtW, hit, wound and save).
3) Some powers were utterly broken.
4) It was all or nothing, if you brought a fluffy amount of psykers, they would be completely negated if the other had invested in lots of dices.
5) DtW mechanic sucked.
6) Zero tactical depth. Huge ranges on the useful powers, and positioning didn't matter. In 8th dispersion is all about positioning and a lot of powers are short ranged. This adds a lot of depth to this phase.


Smite is a nice move by GW, it is an incredibly powerful attack (something that takes a terminator in one hit witout any save allowed is really powerful in my book), that can be mitigated by proper positioning of your models and layering of psy defenses.. This will round list building a lot, by giving cheap troops (up until now only taken as a tax), an additional role.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:


I play Thousand Sons and there is literally no reason to bring anyone other then Ahriman. Magnus is a giant target now that will die in 2 turns maybe 3 turns, Exalted Sorcerers do the exact same thing as Ahriman except 1 less spell. The only other useful charcters that im ALLOWED to take to be a thousand sons army are 150 points. The only way i will ha e a chance at winng any game is if i bring 3 cultists/Tzzangors for every non Cultist/Tzzangor model.

Really? Are you complaining that in 3 turns (2 turns is impossible in 8th, 2000 points army lists will pack a max of 2 long range heavy weapon platforms) of focused fire you can take down a model that costs less that an imperial knight?
At the same time you are saying that you don't see value in having redoundancy in powers?

Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

Yeah, too bad that said psykers will buff only the ones from theyr own faction, right?

Spoletta wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

Yeah, too bad that said psykers will buff only the ones from theyr own faction, right?

Yep if you're speaking of Buffs, but Debuffs/attacks work nonetheless (Dark Angels have 3, Space Wolves 2, Blood Angels/Grey Knights 1)

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

Yeah, too bad that said psykers will buff only the ones from theyr own faction, right?

Yep if you're speaking of Buffs, but Debuffs/attacks work nonetheless (Dark Angels have 3, Space Wolves 2, Blood Angels/Grey Knights 1)

You're on the money.
It also beats out buying three psykers and having two become useless because the first has tried and failed at activating the only decent spell.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

Yeah, too bad that said psykers will buff only the ones from theyr own faction, right?

Yep if you're speaking of Buffs, but Debuffs/attacks work nonetheless (Dark Angels have 3, Space Wolves 2, Blood Angels/Grey Knights 1)

Good point, but don't forget that you are breaking allegiance this way. Once allegiance abilities start being a thing, i don't see this being a good strategy.

Spoletta wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hahaha!
Abusing the allied forces matrix is how you work the Psychic Phase, just like in 7th edition.
One shot at any given spell? Nae worries laddie, grab some Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Space Wolves psykers, now you have a goodly spread of powers to take a dig at.
They all hate each other so it's about as fluffy as your average piece of sandpaper and every bit as likely to rub opponents the wrong way.
The more things change...

Yeah, too bad that said psykers will buff only the ones from theyr own faction, right?

Yep if you're speaking of Buffs, but Debuffs/attacks work nonetheless (Dark Angels have 3, Space Wolves 2, Blood Angels/Grey Knights 1)

Good point, but don't forget that you are breaking allegiance this way. Once allegiance abilities start being a thing, i don't see this being a good strategy.

Abusing, not breaking.
Besides, we have months before that happens and no guarantee it will happen.

It will happen 100%, or half of the keywords in the game have no sense.

That sucks, but much better than 7ed spells which seemed absolutly insane to me, the Death Guard spells don't look great, -1 to hit unit isnt great, after 10 shots you avoid about 2 hit (Not great), having d3 to have enemy -1 attack, -1 strength and -1 toughness isnt great consdering getting a 1 is borderline useless or very very situational and plague wind having a dice roll on a unit and on a d6 a mortal wound actually sounds alright, a few kills on troops and a good chance for a kill on elite units sounds alright.
So use -1 to hit for survivability, gift of contagion if you have a melee focus specifically on more elite units and use plague wind if you want a more offense-based psyker.
Honestly im excited to use a psyker for the first time!

Why do you say that each psychic power can only be used once per army per turn? What I read interprets as each individual psyker can only cast each power once per turn.

Edit: It's a Match rule. Kind of nice to streamline that phase, but hopefully certain armies/units will get an exception.

xmbk wrote:
Why do you say that each psychic power can only be used once per army per turn? What I read interprets as each individual psyker can only cast each power once per turn.

Read bottom of page 215.

They finally made magic reasonable.

I ran a Word Bearers army with a Chaos Warband. When Traitor Legions updated the Lore of Nurgle, I modified my list so that my Lord would have the Scrolls of Magnus and my Sorcerer would be on a Palanquin of Nurgle.

The Scrolls were random done right IMO. I could in theory learn any of the BRB powers (barring Daemonology) but I payed a premium for my Lord to have Psyker powers, and both the table and Power were random. However, 4 in 6 Primaris powers (I could get psychic focus and Chaos focus) were quite usable. The fact I learned a new power at the start of each turn (rather than the start of the Psychic phase) also meant I could plan movement beforehand.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Don't care about the discussion, just have a question that has already probably been touched on, how many powers were really used from most of those tables that were in 7th. So many powers were just useless in that edition.

I used a lot of them. What table I rolled on depended on the army I was playimg against.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Really? Are you complaining that in 3 turns (2 turns is impossible in 8th, 2000 points army lists will pack a max of 2 long range heavy weapon platforms) of focused fire you can take down a model that costs less that an imperial knight?
At the same time you are saying that you don't see value in having redundancy in powers?

Not complaining, pointing out. Magnus' range is melee to 18" he has 18 wounds, the enemy doesn't need long range weapon platforms to kill him. Rapid Fire weapons will do the trick. 8 Meltas will do 9 wounds to him in 1 turn. 18 Sounds like a lot but 2000 points will bring him down in 1-2 turns.