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TBF a Paladin squad with Apothecary & Ancient and a Brother-Captain can lay down four 24" Smites whilst taking a lot of punishment and utterly lock down hostile psykers, drop them into cover and us Lorgarian Empyrean Polytheists will quite have a job on our hands


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Also has anyone noticed that Apothecaries can spend turn 2 ripping the progenitor organs out of a brother who died on turn 1 and then on turn 3 bring him back to life?

And you people call Fabius Bile the mad scientist

 lindsay40k wrote:
TBF a Paladin squad with Apothecary & Ancient and a Brother-Captain can lay down four 24" Smites whilst taking a lot of punishment and utterly lock down hostile psykers, drop them into cover and us Lorgarian Empyrean Polytheists will quite have a job on our hands


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also has anyone noticed that Apothecaries can spend turn 2 ripping the progenitor organs out of a brother who died on turn 1 and then on turn 3 bring him back to life?

And you people call Fabius Bile the mad scientist

Add Draigo and you're also rerolling all your hits for shooting and CC. Large unit though points wise, could end up being a large proportion of your forces in 1 unit?

As with other space marine armies (it seems) in 8th the best way to play them is to add vehicles (and buy razorbacks as transports for your vehicles...), remove every marine and add in cheaper harder hitting units like Scions or Admech.

Stop playing with psychic focus. It's a dumb rule. House rule it so psychic powers don't stack with themselves so you cannot cast the same power 5 times on a single enemy unit to stack debuffs but you could cast it on 5 different enemy units. It scales much better without getting broken.

I think GK are probably better than they have been in a long time, certainly better than Codex Dreadknight in the last edition.

Why?

They're better vs vehicles. After 5th ed Psycannon and Psyback spam, GK really sucked at dealing with vehicles.
The Nemesis Weapons now work better vs vehicles with 1d3 wounds, as does the Psilencer.
Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks and Stormravens are all massively improved as shooting platforms giving GK the fire support they haven't had for a long time

They're better vs infantry. Storm Bolters are Rapid Fire 2. Don't need to say much else here.

They're better in CC. Each squad can smite and Nemesis weapons do 1d3 damage.

Deep Striking is more reliable, when a large portion of your army can do this.

They're more durable. Well, sort of. Expensive T4/1W/3+ is still made out of paper, but with vehicles being more durable (and I can't see GK being played without them) and more versatile, it helps to make the army as a whole more durable.

So I'm going to totally shine my little ray of sunshine on this right now.

What the heck are you all talking about. I feel like grey Knights have gotten way better. With the ability to use way more of their units.

Ok first is our PAGK like strike squads. In 7th the only thing I would ever use these guys for is a super cheap easy to hide unit I could sit on an objective and hope no one sees them.
Now the way ap works as means they won't be blasted off the table in one shot. Yes on average they will hVe a reduced save. But that is a huge trade off instead of having no save at all due to a large blast ap3 or better weapon blowing them to bits in literally one shot.

We now for free get 2 extra shots at half range. What is their to complain about? I was used to having to deal with 2 shots per guy at that range and just hoping a wound would land. Now we doubled out firepower tat that range.

also our powers are way better. Now instead of having one or two units suck up all my warp charge. My whole army can cast powers. Smite is like just free mortal wounds. I wouldn't really care using it against hordes. But shooting that at lets say a MC or some heavily armored troops that's gonna hurt. Plus we have purge soul. Which I'm going to try and pop every hq I can get close enough with that power. Even little squad leaders and stuff. Any bring giving high leadership. Pop his head then pour storm bolted shots into his squad and make them take moral.

Paladins plus an apothecary are so much more tough now. Before a single blast with either ap2 or str 8 or God forbid both would insta kill a whol squad of Paladins. Ignoring their 2 wounds and fnp and 2+ save.

And lastly we have falchions for free! That means even the lowly strike squad now gets 2 attacks at ap -2. That's way better then they used to be.

How are you popping squad leaders with Purge Soul? It inflicts MW on units, not models.

A low model count army needing to get within 12" to be effective in a game that looks set to favour hordes and plasma doesn't sound great to me. Especially since a bunch of hordes can just set up a conga line to a Commissar or Dark Apostle and keep you well away from their boss.

 lindsay40k wrote:
How are you popping squad leaders with Purge Soul? It inflicts MW on units, not models.

A low model count army needing to get within 12" to be effective in a game that looks set to favour hordes and plasma doesn't sound great to me. Especially since a bunch of hordes can just set up a conga line to a Commissar or Dark Apostle and keep you well away from their boss.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (as I feel I am but can't find words to the contrary).

I believe he is popping HQ's and not squad leaders. This way they are characters and therefore separate units. The rules for characters where it says that they cannot be targetted unless they are the closest unit and specifically references the shooting phase (and is, in fact, in the shooting phase section of the rules).

There is nothing in the psychic phase that states you cannot target characters which are single units. So assuming purge soul says "target 1 unit" or some such, then you can pop HQ's all you want even if they're hiding in the middle of a squad. After all why would physical bodies block your mind bullets?

Ah I hadn't read that correctly. It is in fact the unit not the model. However you should still be able to pick out hqs. But we might have to wait for a faq since it's not shooting and you pick.

And we haven't needed to get into 12" range, we need to be in cc. That has always been our best place. We are not a heavy shooting army. So after I teleport my guys in the thick of it before charging I don't mind being able to lay down some crazy bolters fire. We used to at one point have psybolts and that's what made out shooting decent. Now with the extra shots we are decent again.

And people keep saying "what about hordes?" Well we have never been really anti horde. Or armor for that matter. The only time we were really good at anti horde was 5th Ed purifiers cleansing flame. To win against horde armies you have to be really extra clever. Really that's the whole point of grey Knights. They are so elite and you have so few but tough guys every single move needs to be thought out. We can't just throw squads into the meat grinder and see what happens. I love that style but it is harder.
I think the best two things we have for hordes is mass storm Bolter fire and probably storm Ravens. Storm Ravens can pump out a ridiculous amount of shots. And is tougher. I tried using storm Ravens in 7th. They never made it past turn 2 before they crashed and burned. Now they can deliver 6 terminators right next to a enemy and still blow the snot out of a target.

Why is everyone proposing the use of falchions on all GKs? Is +1 attack so important?

Bigfashizzel wrote:
Why is everyone proposing the use of falchions on all GKs? Is +1 attack so important?

Mathammer in the other GK thread says that falchions outperform other melee weapons except the hammers.

Like Xenomancer said, mix in some quad las or AC/Las Preds and/or some dual autocannon venerable dreads from SM if you need some anti vehicle at range.

 SirDalavar wrote:
Yeah, cant say im loving the 8th edition for GK's,
They dont seem very flexible,

They seem great at taking down low model count armies, heroes/tanks/monsters,
Especially with smite, these guys might have the highest mortal wound count imo,

Sorry if this is a silly question, but isn't that exactly what GKs are supposed to be for?

I could be wrong (I'm far from an expert on the fluff), but I didn't think GKs were sent to take on entire ork hordes or nid swarms.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 SirDalavar wrote:
Yeah, cant say im loving the 8th edition for GK's,
They dont seem very flexible,

They seem great at taking down low model count armies, heroes/tanks/monsters,
Especially with smite, these guys might have the highest mortal wound count imo,

Sorry if this is a silly question, but isn't that exactly what GKs are supposed to be for?

I could be wrong (I'm far from an expert on the fluff), but I didn't think GKs were sent to take on entire ork hordes or nid swarms.

Fluff-wise, you're right. They're an elite force for elite tasks.

Just causes some issues with gameplay as people try to field mono-GK forces and run into horde lists.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 SirDalavar wrote:
Yeah, cant say im loving the 8th edition for GK's,
They dont seem very flexible,

They seem great at taking down low model count armies, heroes/tanks/monsters,
Especially with smite, these guys might have the highest mortal wound count imo,

Sorry if this is a silly question, but isn't that exactly what GKs are supposed to be for?

I could be wrong (I'm far from an expert on the fluff), but I didn't think GKs were sent to take on entire ork hordes or nid swarms.

1st War of Armageddon, GK fought massed swarms of daemons. That's one specific fluff example.

SJ

Any advice on taking on horde armies as GK? Given Guard can drop 400 conscripts in a 1500 point game I don't know if I have enough bullets for that match. Help??