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excessivemagnetization wrote:
Many great narrative suggestions have been brought up, nearly all of which could take place in an upcoming installment. Discord among primarchs and the inquisition? I think it likely. An alliance with the Eldar? Well, yeah, sorta. I'd say resurecting Guilliman created a shaky one. Incorporating necron tech into mechanicum designs? Cawl's pretty much got free reign to do whatever he wants right now. I don't think reintroducing primarchs put many limitations on the 40k universe. Nor do I think it shrunk the scale of it. I will concede that they're presence lessens their mystique, as someone (sorry, I forgot who) mentioned. But I would argue that even that does not make the primarchs any less mythical. They are demigods among men, and they still feel so to me. It is for that reason that their reappearance has me so excited. But of course, you are welcome to disagree.

Right now its the demigods among men that is getting so pathetic, they are small in the grand theme of things. Mythical does not mean powerful, and ramping them up again and again is doing a disservice to the setting as a whole.
They can be central without the power ramping up and putting them at the center of every story, Its just bad design from the people at the top filtering though. With no way to really change things now they have broken there glass.

We need new characters, and new narrative to push forward. Something GW has been really bad at now.

There are some characters such as Ragnar Blackmane that I would love to see grow into something more. I'm more a fan of the humble beginnings characters that evolve into something much more.

excessivemagnetization wrote:
I will concede that they're presence lessens their mystique

To be fair, the HH novels have done a pretty good job of that already. We have a good grasp of their powers and capabilities along with their (numerous) character flaws and assorted daddy-issues.

I have been playing since Rogue Trader days and I willingly admit I was surprised to see them finally hit the table-top but I have seen the fluff grow and change so many times over the years that I have learned to just enjoy the setting rather than get bogged down in details.

For loyalist, I see them coming back in this order:

Russ - he has to come back to be a counter point to Magnus.

Corax - he's a believer in guilliman and fills the jump pack primarch role.

Vulcan - because he just can't die. Ever. Oh and he fills the non white race role.

For me, the next Primarch should be The Lion; mainly because it will finally tie up the Cypher storyline (I want to know what that sword is!), plus it lines up with the remaining SM codexes.

Russ would also be released at some point, mainly because a) Magnus is back and b) GW do love the Wolves.

The other Primarchs are kind of meh though to be honest. Corax, Vulcan, Khan are just... ehhh. Its not like those chapters have unique units either, so unless we see Codex:SM Legions, I don't think we'll see any of them. Russ and The Lion make sense since both have a standalone Codex, and the BA may get a Sanguinor at some point with Primarch power levels (Not even GW will bring back Sanguinius, at least I hope)

The Traitor primarchs are all but confirmed at this point though right? Death Guard and Thousand Sons have their own codexes, so I would expect Emperors Children and World Eaters to receive the same treatment, and then Abaddon gets the Celestine treatment and gets some kind of uber model.


Meanwhile, 'Nids, Orks, Necrons and Tau are just left twiddling their thumbs while GW continue this IoM V Chaos drama unfolding. Because the more GW push the story, the more the story revolves around the Space Marine singularity.

 Izural wrote:
Meanwhile, 'Nids, Orks, Necrons and Tau are just left twiddling their thumbs while GW continue this IoM V Chaos drama unfolding. Because the more GW push the story, the more the story revolves around the Space Marine singularity.

I think this is my biggest issue with the direction the lore is heading. 40K is becoming 30K. If I wanted to play 30K, I would have bought 30K. I chose 40K because of the grimdark, hopeless, empire of decay, superstition narrative filled with xenos. That is being eroded with the introduction of all this new technology, primarchs & hope. You can be certain that every single warzone going forward there will be a primarch present & instead of focusing on the conflict, logistics, & the heroic deeds of lesser men it will be all about the emotional turmoils of the primarchs. Once enough primarchs are introduced characters like Dante, Yarrick, Calgar, Cypher, Kharn, Creed, Helbrecht, Ghazzy etc will just be footnotes. They will get 1-2 nods in a warzone & the rest of the writing will be spent on how amazing the primarchs are. I'm more interested in what the xenos are up to. How has the warpscar impacted them. What are the tyranids running away from? Why has the inquisition & the high lords of terra permitted Roboute Guilliman to seize power unmolested?

These things interest me. What Magnus or Guilliman ate for breakfast does not.

For those that dont like Primarchs, dont forget this is also a Hobby and GW honestly dont really have a good range of Large fun looking models in 40k (AoS does) any players just want them for the looks and not necessary for the rules or game play, albeit good rules will make players feel like it was a better investment.

Also some players are more fluff driven and would LOVE to have the iconic character on the table.

The game isnt just about math and tactics there is more to it for many players.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Also some players are more fluff driven and would LOVE to have the iconic character on the table.

I find the primarchs in 40k repulsive for fluff reasons.
The fact that so far we have
- Magnus of the 1k sons: the Action Figure (TM)
- Roboute Guilliman, that is just sad compared to the 30k mini
- Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard, enemy of life, reason, restraint in miniature design and focal points
Is just the icing of the cake. An icing made of crap.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Also some players are more fluff driven and would LOVE to have the iconic character on the table.

I find the primarchs in 40k repulsive for fluff reasons.
The fact that so far we have
- Magnus of the 1k sons: the Action Figure (TM)
- Roboute Guilliman, that is just sad compared to the 30k mini
- Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard, enemy of life, reason, restraint in miniature design and focal points
Is just the icing of the cake. An icing made of crap.

Thats you, you are not everyone, i know many that like them. I dont really care for DG but i love Mortarion model.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Also some players are more fluff driven and would LOVE to have the iconic character on the table.

I find the primarchs in 40k repulsive for fluff reasons.
The fact that so far we have
- Magnus of the 1k sons: the Action Figure (TM)
- Roboute Guilliman, that is just sad compared to the 30k mini
- Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard, enemy of life, reason, restraint in miniature design and focal points
Is just the icing of the cake. An icing made of crap.

Thats you, you are not everyone, i know many that like them. I dont really care for DG but i love Mortarion model.

Fair enough but the "appeal to fluff" is very subjective (as much as my opinion, that is). For many, the presence of the primarchs in 40k is a disaster for the fluff because it destroys the aura of legend that such heroes and villains have, and shifts the focus of the setting, transforming it in something more "warmachine-like".
The latter has even an effect on the tabletop, because such beings are very common while in older editions you had a minimum point limit for important characters.

To me and others, the appeal of 40k was mostly in its "war sandbox" nature. It depicts a galaxy full of innumerable conflicts on millions of worlds. As this is a hobby game, involving the building and painting of your miniatures, this means there is always a place for "your dudes." The narrative, implied or explicit, was about their battle in some corner of the galaxy. The stories can be heroic, grim, or even farcical--there's room for all of them.

The primarch wankfest changes that. Now it's a continuation of the Horus Heresy, a pro-wrestling feud between superhuman manbabies. And the fluff and rules ensure this. Now Guilliman appears in person to fight almost every skirmish of the Imperium. The entire force is built around him, and the opposing force must be built to counter him. Every "reborn" or "rediscovered" primarch level character takes the game futher away from a setting about soldiers and battles, and makes it Wrestlemania with flaming swords.

Hankovitch wrote:
To me and others, the appeal of 40k was mostly in its "war sandbox" nature. It depicts a galaxy full of innumerable conflicts on millions of worlds. As this is a hobby game, involving the building and painting of your miniatures, this means there is always a place for "your dudes." The narrative, implied or explicit, was about their battle in some corner of the galaxy. The stories can be heroic, grim, or even farcical--there's room for all of them.

The primarch wankfest changes that. Now it's a continuation of the Horus Heresy, a pro-wrestling feud between superhuman manbabies. And the fluff and rules ensure this. Now Guilliman appears in person to fight almost every skirmish of the Imperium. The entire force is built around him, and the opposing force must be built to counter him. Every "reborn" or "rediscovered" primarch level character takes the game futher away from a setting about soldiers and battles, and makes it Wrestlemania with flaming swords.

Well the primarchs and named characters are fine when you are playing specific fluff missions but even before it makes no sense for creeeeeeeed to be fighting say aun'shi as they would never be near each other.

as to list building spank fests.. eh. its par for the course for the people that are into it.

 Desubot wrote:

Hankovitch wrote:
To me and others, the appeal of 40k was mostly in its "war sandbox" nature. It depicts a galaxy full of innumerable conflicts on millions of worlds. As this is a hobby game, involving the building and painting of your miniatures, this means there is always a place for "your dudes." The narrative, implied or explicit, was about their battle in some corner of the galaxy. The stories can be heroic, grim, or even farcical--there's room for all of them.

The primarch wankfest changes that. Now it's a continuation of the Horus Heresy, a pro-wrestling feud between superhuman manbabies. And the fluff and rules ensure this. Now Guilliman appears in person to fight almost every skirmish of the Imperium. The entire force is built around him, and the opposing force must be built to counter him. Every "reborn" or "rediscovered" primarch level character takes the game futher away from a setting about soldiers and battles, and makes it Wrestlemania with flaming swords.

Well the primarchs and named characters are fine when you are playing specific fluff missions but even before it makes no sense for creeeeeeeed to be fighting say aun'shi as they would never be near each other.

as to list building spank fests.. eh. its par for the course for the people that are into it.

The difference is that you can use creed for a talented general or calgar for a strong chapter master of a Ultramarine successor chapter.
Magnus or Mortarion are so above and distinctive both in models and rules that you will never find them in "count as" models.
This brings to a certain sameness.
Im kind of appreciate that now you have 1 free relic (possibly more) and choose your own warlord trait.. this helps a bit the "nobodies". .. aka "your dudes".