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 Lance845 wrote:
What the hell is this thing?

I just thought it was a Warrior with a fancy head from one of the editions.

Really crappy merging of the images because I don't have photoshop on this computer.

 Lance845 wrote:

Looks like the profile of a ravenor to me. Low to the ground too, about the right size maybe? the other heads and shapes around it are gants, and are comparitive in size.

Hahah. You guys are always amusing.

Any special preorders / custom dice / dex?

I didnt see pictures in the OP - might be the PC I'm on

 Stevefamine wrote:
Any special preorders / custom dice / dex?

I didnt see pictures in the OP - might be the PC I'm on

Wouldn't surprise me, but we haven't seen anything yet. They're previewing Eldar stuff now, after that's done they'll start talking Tyranids.

Expect the first official Tyranid articles on the 29th - a week before pre-orders. We *might* see some more WD stuff leak first though.

Expect the cries of power creep and that the Tyranids are the most OP codex ever on the 30th.

 adamsouza wrote:
Expect the cries of power creep and that the Tyranids are the most OP codex ever on the 30th.

I can feel the sarcasm radiating from the screen.

Preparing myself for massive disappointment. The ongoing chorus of "let things settle out" from the more tunnel visioned Guard players will be fun at least.

 adamsouza wrote:
Expect the cries of power creep and that the Tyranids are the most OP codex ever on the 30th.

Clearly all nonsense as always. When has GW ever released anything but perfectly balanced books where every conceivable list from every available book is meticulously balanced with everything else to mathematical perfection?

 Carnikang wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
What the hell is this thing?

Ravenor

The head's the right shape, has the mandibles, and the dorsal vents.

That is not how I imagine Ravenor's hover chair to look, but to each his own I guess.

 Lance845 wrote:
What the hell is this thing?

New Dominatrix sitting on the toilet?
But the seriously I hope that they will not go the lazy way and give nids the Swarmy as the only LoW choice and that there really is a new/old gargantuan for the codex (even if that pic is not it).

The thought of nids receiving a top tier book is amusing.

Edition after edition I'm used to trying the new book in the hopes that more than 1 build is a viable option.
This sadly hasn't been the case since my favourite create-a-nid codex from time past.

I don't want an overly powerful book that dominates tournaments though.
Just one that offers multiple builds that are actually viable to use.

I'd love to see warriors become useful again rather than a point sink.


As a side note, I'd like my GMCs to actually have a use too.
Last edition or the one before didn't treat them great and they were a joke.

 Jackal wrote:
The thought of nids receiving a top tier book is amusing.

Edition after edition I'm used to trying the new book in the hopes that more than 1 build is a viable option.
This sadly hasn't been the case since my favourite create-a-nid codex from time past.

I don't want an overly powerful book that dominates tournaments though.
Just one that offers multiple builds that are actually viable to use.

I'd love to see warriors become useful again rather than a point sink.


As a side note, I'd like my GMCs to actually have a use too.
Last edition or the one before didn't treat them great and they were a joke.

I keep hoping for similar improvements for Tyranid Warriors. I feel as if they are better in this edition due to Instant Death being removed and the fact that S6 and S7 weapons are only wounding on a 3+ now; however, they still feel so... mediocre. I still can't help but wonder why they're not Psykers... they really should be. I might even suggest the idea that all Tyranid units with Synapse should be Psykers. This might make Warriors better and more viable and it would also make the Trygon Prime much more interesting.

Since we're sort of wish-listing, I might as well add my thoughts:

1) All units with Synapse become Psykers.
Sounds like fun to me. I'm sure the codex will re-introduce powers like Psychic Scream or Dominion. I'm hoping there are some viable alternatives to Catalyst. Some powers to whip Tyranid units into an agitated feeding frenzy would be cool. Maybe something that increases their WS, S or A attributes on the charge or something?

2) A new Termagant and Hormagaunt kit.
The kits have been around since the Tyranids were re-released for 3rd edition. The options for all of the Termagant bio-weapons would be pretty cool. I miss having Spike Rifles and Stranglewebs. However, considering how awful the weapons are now, GW would have to substantially re-imagine their niche and attributes to become viable because, frankly, they might be the worst weapons ever. Hormagaunt kits are just bad. I wish they could make a quality kit of dynamic Hormagaunts that would actually not fall over every time the table shakes.

3) A new Carnifex kit.
Just port over the FW Stone Crusher Carnifex bio-weapons. Please. FW prices + international shipping charges are so scary that my wallet actually weeps when I think about ordering something.

4) A flying support unit.
I imagine it's because I've been playing a lot of SC2 lately, but I wish Tyranids had a unit like the Zerg Viper; a monstrous creature that flies, has some supporting abilities to reduce the range of enemy ranged weapons and/or could use some crazy tentacles to abduct enemy characters in an attempt to drag them closer to be mulched by other Tyranid units. They could even call it something like a Tyranid Siren to keep up with their flying monstrous creature naming convention. Crone, harpy, siren. Sounds fun to me.

5) Living ammunition and cool biomorphs.
Imagine a Fleshborer Hive with Living Ammunition? It might actually be worth taking. I want to utilize all of these biomorph bits I have laying around. So many different Carnifex and Genestealer heads just begging to be used again. Does anyone remember Voltage Fields from the 2nd edition Tyranid codex? It was awesome. Bring back Thorax weapons and change tail weapons to be optional instead of having to devote a mandatory attack to them.

6) Hive fleet traits and stratagems.
I'm sure the new codex will follow the lead of other codices, but I would love something unique. I'm not sure what, but I'd like to not have a copy pasta from the other 8th edition books. I'm not saying that they're not good (they obviously are), but I don't want Tyranids to be like "every other army". Surely being apex predators from beyond the universe is worth something other than a handful of re-named traits and stratagems.

7) Make Lictors great again!
I haven't used Lictors since 2nd edition. They were wicked fighters, brutal in close combat and generally way scarier than they are now. Turn them back into the assassin bugs they were meant to be.

8) Fix Tyranid flyers.
Getting rid of the minimum movement requirement and giving them Hard To Hit would be a good start. However, I feel like Crones and Harpies still need more work; their middling BS, WS and armor save hurts pretty badly.

9) Adaptability and customization.
3rd and 4th edition Tyranids epitomized this and those were the best times to be a Tyranid player. Ever since 5th edition, Tyranids have been woefully inadequate at doing anything particularly well and that trend has carried over into every new edition since then. Cool looking models sell well but good rules can sell more.

It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.

I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

It's the platform it comes on. Fleshborer sits on an expensive tyrannofex that needs to stand still with a short ranged weapon to get any real value out of it. Nobody will get that close to let it do it's thing without just charging it to deny it from shooting all together.

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.

Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..

edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.

Part of me would love some new gaunt kits; but another part kind of wants them to stay visually the same - if just because building swarms takes time and having them visually the same fits with the idea of Tyranid swarms.

I think a triple gaunt kit would require some serious adjustments to how they appear right now in order to carry it off in a practical manner as basically you'd require 3 different body shapes for each gaunt in the box.


What I would like to see is an upgrades kit with the various other guns for your basic gaunt to have access too (as things like spike rifles haven't existed since gaunts were made of metal). However I suspect that GW will simply remove those weapon choices from the codex rather than doing an upgrade sprue or new gaunt sprue. A shame to lose some diversity, but a good move if we are not going to get a proper weapon model for them. (though considering how many upgrade packs there are just for space marine shoulder pads I can't believe GW couldn't make a small upgrade sprue or two for tyranids = gaunt guns and tryanid warrior wings - heck throw rippers into the gaunt guns sprue to help generate sales for them

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.

I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.

If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.

 xttz wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.

Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..

edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.

If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.

Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..

edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.

If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

What a load of codswallop.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.

They have the same statline,

A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.

Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..

edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.

If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

I see what you mean but its not a good line of thinking.
Certainly armies as a whole have to have weak and strong points; but if you give an army a weapon which is essentially useless or very underpowered then people won't use it. That weapon choice is then a waste of a choice because it would never see play and to take it would be to take a handicap.
The ideal is weapon choices which are diverse and yet each has its own niche. Of course competitive metas will generally isolate a few choices as being the most efficient; but balance (good balance) is about having a very small window of variation between good and bad.
When there's a large window its a problem as you get super underpowered and/or super overpowered choices. That cuts down on army variety.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:


If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.

 xttz wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:


If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.

Units should be balanced within armies not just alone; so its no surprise that some units might have a similar role/stat line to others in a different army and yet have a very different points value. The idea being that whilst they are different one to the other; they fill a different niche within an army context.

This is the complexity of balance; units can't just be done against each other it has to be done within army context.

 Overread wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:


If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.

But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.

Units should be balanced within armies not just alone; so its no surprise that some units might have a similar role/stat line to others in a different army and yet have a very different points value. The idea being that whilst they are different one to the other; they fill a different niche within an army context.

This is the complexity of balance; units can't just be done against each other it has to be done within army context.

.


Essentially this is my point. If I see across the table you took a similar weapon profile to mine but know I pay cheaper for it then you it gives me a sense of the difference in the armies. Ideally there are no similar profiles due to diversity in the rule set, but we don't have that in 40k ATM. having weapon profiles that are identical between armies with just different names is what I'm advocating against here. Prolly should shut up now as I'm not a nid player, just hopeful they get the attention they deserve as being the apocalyptic bug enable that should imo be the apex evil in 40k, rising above necrons, chaos, orks and the rest.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.

I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.

If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.

The current Hormagaunt and Termagant sprues are remarkably brilliant for their age! I’m painting up a load of them atm. I agree that they could be smaller. The current Gargoyle kit is comparatively very new (2009), and they are super crisp sculpts. It would be nice to see the Horms/Terms freshened up - similarly to the Gargoyles - with a slightly smaller size, too. Not a kit with half of the options that you don’t want. What I would like is a good DEAL for them! £15.00 for a set of twenty bugs. GW, please :( ( And Hormagaunts that don’t fall over )

As for game balance, I could hardly imagine what that entails. Although different, but not too dissimilar, Blizzard has a hard time trying to balance three races in Starcraft 2. Some of you make it sound very simple, but I should imagine that perfect game balance in something like 40k is nigh-impossible. Perhaps it is only about points cost, but I’m sure that is just the tip of the iceberg...

I find it difficult measuring the "power creep" from the simple matter of they put the points values in the back of the Codex books AND they sometimes roll the weapon into the model points cost.
I have been entering in the models and weapons into Excel to do some comparative pricing (I really need to use a OCR scanner...) and seeing some occasional points costs that seem... arbitrary.
I have all the Codex books to date, I am NOT entering in the Index stuff, I have a life to live.

In the end, it is helpful to sort the weapon capability, compare it to the relative WS/BS/S characteristics and point value.
They already change points value for the BS of the model using say a plasma gun.

I really do hope Tyranid get some new Codex love, I never collected the army but found them fun to see.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.

I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.

If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.

I agree that they should be smaller. In fiction they are described as a dog (probably big dog) sized.