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2018/03/16 01:40:14
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Irbis wrote:
Yes, all the time. Ask yourself a simple question, if it's possible to do for a mook Chapter Master or Inquisitor who don't really have a lot of anti-daemon training/knowledge, then it can't be that hard to do and people who actually know what they are doing, like GK or some Eldar, must find it a lot easier. Occam's razor, really.
Doubly so seeing almost all your examples are from last century of M41, so unless daemons hate that number for some reason, there had to be on average similar number of deaths in all of 100 centuries of IoM existence. We just didn't hear about them as most of 40K fiction was placed in M41.
Most of those are done by unique weapons. The others are by Tzeentch, massive psychic channeling and Draigo. On top of those the only other Demon I know to die permanently was killed by Asurmen. So it's pretty rare.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/03/26 07:56:54
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Crimson wrote: Sgt_Smudge wrote:Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.
What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.
While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos. Automatically Appended Next Post:
No Lord of Change is a rival to Magnus in all likelihood.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 08:04:21
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2018/03/26 19:22:49
Subject: Re:Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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If it's a battle of purely warp-based attacks, 7th sisters of silence and 3rd ed pariahs win since they are nulls. Meaning, no matter how strong one's Empyrean based attacks are, they will have no effect on psychic nulls.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 19:23:28
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2018/03/26 21:10:42
Subject: Re:Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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skchsan wrote:If it's a battle of purely warp-based attacks, 7th sisters of silence and 3rd ed pariahs win since they are nulls. Meaning, no matter how strong one's Empyrean based attacks are, they will have no effect on psychic nulls.
I think some fluff has suggested that powerful enough Psykers can over come less powerful Blanks. Daemons, despite being composed of Warp energy, are still capable of striking them. There are also Psychic powers that you can use to manipulate physical objects as weapons (e.g. telekinetically hurl rocks at opponents). A Lord of change would have a significant advantage over a single Sister of Silence or Pariah.
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2018/03/26 22:12:56
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
Kapuskasing, ON
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Malcador seemed fully capable of using alpha level psychic powers without showing any discomfort even though surrounded by sisters of silence. Pretty sure other high end psykers are similar.
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2018/04/04 12:17:02
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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Id ague khayon can
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2018/04/04 12:46:32
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I beat him at chess, sooo...
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iGuy91 wrote:You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote:You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote:Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming? |
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2018/04/04 14:26:32
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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ProwlerPC wrote:Malcador seemed fully capable of using alpha level psychic powers without showing any discomfort even though surrounded by sisters of silence. Pretty sure other high end psykers are similar.
Take a hugely powerful null effect to even make Emparor, Magnus, Macaldor think twice about it.
Short of greater deamons or gods, there aint much more powerful.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/04/04 16:43:09
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Void__Dragon wrote:
While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos..
Yes.
Also, Void__Dragon? Wow. It's been a while since I saw you around. Blast from the past.
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I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a |
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2018/04/05 01:32:00
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Ashiraya wrote: Void__Dragon wrote:
While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos..
Yes.
Also, Void__Dragon? Wow. It's been a while since I saw you around. Blast from the past.
I was drawn back to the site by your radiant beauty.
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2018/04/05 13:49:06
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Fixture of Dakka
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"While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos."
On the tabletop? Yes, or at least currently (Ghosthelms...)
In the fluff? No. Farseers are always fighting Chaos. It's just that that fight is in the background on the tabletop. Much like IG don't roll for the common cold each round, the Farseer is constantly evading Chaos.
I would imagine that if the Farseer were only dealing with the LoC, he'd have a much better chance than if he's also worrying about Slanesh. Not sure that alone would be enough. The whole being-invisible-to-it thing might help too, but I'm not 100% that that hasn't changed.
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2018/04/05 17:14:02
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Bharring wrote:"While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos."
On the tabletop? Yes, or at least currently (Ghosthelms...)
In the fluff? No. Farseers are always fighting Chaos. It's just that that fight is in the background on the tabletop. Much like IG don't roll for the common cold each round, the Farseer is constantly evading Chaos.
I would imagine that if the Farseer were only dealing with the LoC, he'd have a much better chance than if he's also worrying about Slanesh. Not sure that alone would be enough. The whole being-invisible-to-it thing might help too, but I'm not 100% that that hasn't changed.
It is the basis of the Grey Knights' fluff that their psychic presence and powers are anathema to Daemons.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 17:17:09
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2018/04/05 17:58:44
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Fixture of Dakka
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It is the basis of the Craftworld's fluff that they are always fighting against Daemons. GK might worry only about daemons, but CWE also always worry about them.
To say that a GK are trained/equipped specifically against demons and Farseers aren't isn't accurate. I know GK are. It's not as commonly known that Farseers are also trained/equipped specifically against demons.
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2018/04/05 18:41:40
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Fixture of Dakka
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What psykers aren't fighting constantly against demons?
It's completely accurate. Farseers are trained in seeing the future and using that to help their allies and the odd thing like eldritch storm not anti-demon.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/04/06 05:29:52
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Bharring wrote:"While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos."
On the tabletop? Yes, or at least currently (Ghosthelms...)
In the fluff? No. Farseers are always fighting Chaos. It's just that that fight is in the background on the tabletop. Much like IG don't roll for the common cold each round, the Farseer is constantly evading Chaos.
I would imagine that if the Farseer were only dealing with the LoC, he'd have a much better chance than if he's also worrying about Slanesh. Not sure that alone would be enough. The whole being-invisible-to-it thing might help too, but I'm not 100% that that hasn't changed.
No, you're just wrong here, sorry.
Farseers do not dedicate nearly as much of their time fighting Chaos. They are primarily based around peering into the future to guide their race, whereas the sole function of a Grey Knight is to combat the powers of Chaos. Show me a single source stating that Farseers' psychic powers are honed to be particularly damaging to Chaos the way the Grey Knights are.
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2018/04/07 20:18:08
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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It very much depends on where the Farseer is from. A Farseer from Biel-Tan is likely more focused on reading the skein for advantages against Humans, Orks and other such beings, whereas a Farseer from Ulthwé, with their constantly battling Chaos at every turn, would naturally primarily focus on fighting Chaos.
That said, I'll throw Harlequin Shadowseers into the mix. They are dedicated Chaos hunters and extremely powerful - see Sylandri Veilwalker snapping Kairos Fateweaver's anti-primarch chains like wet tissue, or an unknown Shadowseer (but probably Veilwalker) happily taking Mephiston, possibly the most powerful Psyker in the Imperium, on a psychic road trip through Khorne's domain against his will in Devastation of Baal, or Vespasi-Hann taking on Ahriman and even coming out on top (thanks to capitalising on an unexpected outside interference, I''m compelled to add) in Atlas Infernal. They've got the power, they've got the training and experience, if anyone can do it regularly it's them IMO.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 20:18:28
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2018/04/07 23:33:13
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Void__Dragon wrote: Crimson wrote: Sgt_Smudge wrote:Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.
What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.
While true, Grey Knights' psychic powers and auras are tailored to directly negate and dispell the forces of Chaos.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
No Lord of Change is a rival to Magnus in all likelihood.
A Deamon called Shaytan beats the living snot out of Magnus with relative ease, it was early Magnus likely before he knew the full extent of his powers, but its still pretty shocking.
Deamons have the ability to be much much more powerful that primarchs and one more powerful than the Emperor, so its not much of a stretch to think a lord of change "could" become more powerful, its just not likely.
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2018/05/19 22:33:49
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Who is Shaytan? I cannot find any information on this daemon on either 40k wiki, which is surprising. Can you give some context for this supposed beatdown as well as the publication? <3
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 22:35:45
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a |
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2018/05/19 23:06:59
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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Oh, this thread. Has anyone found any lore to support Eldar being the most powerful psykers? My boy Ahriman is taking it to them in the warp. I guess that is good enough .
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2018/05/21 03:58:48
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Formosa wrote:
A Deamon called Shaytan beats the living snot out of Magnus with relative ease, it was early Magnus likely before he knew the full extent of his powers, but its still pretty shocking.
Deamons have the ability to be much much more powerful that primarchs and one more powerful than the Emperor, so its not much of a stretch to think a lord of change "could" become more powerful, its just not likely.
Shaitan? You mean that "daemon" (which was actually the combined psychic essence of an entire planet's worth of psykers that were sacrificed during the entirety of Old Night) that Magnus proceeded to literally trap in his book so all the lives comprising it could live out their own stories inside it, finally getting a shot at the life they missed? That Shaitan? Idk, I think Magnus proved he was quite a bit more powerful. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ashiraya wrote:Who is Shaytan? I cannot find any information on this daemon on either 40k wiki, which is surprising. Can you give some context for this supposed beatdown as well as the publication?
<3
It's not a daemon, and it is from the BL novel Primarchs series, Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero.
Magnus was originally being laid low by the entity when confronted with the horror of their backstory (which resonated strongly with him, given his very pro-psyker stance), but when he found his resolve, he sealed the entity in short order.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 04:02:06
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2018/05/21 16:13:21
Subject: Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
Connah's Quay, North Wales
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Robin5t wrote:It very much depends on where the Farseer is from. A Farseer from Biel-Tan is likely more focused on reading the skein for advantages against Humans, Orks and other such beings, whereas a Farseer from Ulthwé, with their constantly battling Chaos at every turn, would naturally primarily focus on fighting Chaos.
That said, I'll throw Harlequin Shadowseers into the mix. They are dedicated Chaos hunters and extremely powerful - see Sylandri Veilwalker snapping Kairos Fateweaver's anti-primarch chains like wet tissue, or an unknown Shadowseer (but probably Veilwalker) happily taking Mephiston, possibly the most powerful Psyker in the Imperium, on a psychic road trip through Khorne's domain against his will in Devastation of Baal, or Vespasi-Hann taking on Ahriman and even coming out on top (thanks to capitalising on an unexpected outside interference, I''m compelled to add) in Atlas Infernal. They've got the power, they've got the training and experience, if anyone can do it regularly it's them IMO.
IMHO Harlequins are incredibly hard to judge because in every book they show up in they are the definition of plot armour. Harlequins don't see the future like Farseers do, a Shadowseer see's the future as a cycle of recurring Eldar myths and nudges things so it occurs like they should. In this way I am 100% confident if a Shadowseer was had another role to play later on, then she'd manage to defeat or escape the Lord of change (In the latest Fabius Bile book a Shadowseer ((Veilwalker, it's always veilwalker) straight up vanished into thin air, in an area with no webway portals). However I also don't think that in a straight up psychic duel a Shadowseer holds as much psychic clout as a Farseer. In Masque the Vyle the Shadowseer in that book was unwilling to use her Witchsight in an area that might house a greater daemon lest it spot her and crush her.
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