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However it is fair to assume that the consumption of inorganic elements will require more work and time, and is bound not be as interesting as a world of squeeshy orks or humans. Especially when said inorganic elements has the potential to send you back crying to where you came from with absurd amounts of matter desintegrating firepower. So tye choice for a tyranid hive fleet is easy to make.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
However it is fair to assume that the consumption of inorganic elements will require more work and time, and is bound not be as interesting as a world of squeeshy orks or humans. Especially when said inorganic elements has the potential to send you back crying to where you came from with absurd amounts of matter desintegrating firepower. So tye choice for a tyranid hive fleet is easy to make.

Agreed.

Iracundus wrote:
The amount of metals in the human body is relatively trace. Even one of the most common, iron, amounts to only about a nail's worth distributed across the entire body. You don't literally eat a nail, but you get the iron in all the other food consumed.

For a Tyranid hive fleet, what counts as a trace amount could still add up to many hundreds of thousands of tons, ultimately spread out among all the ships that constitute the fleet. A few tanks and bases dissolved down and absorbed is the hive fleet getting its trace elements.

Tyranids have a far greater amount of metal in their bodies than human beings. Unlike us or any other life form, Tyranids actively reinforce their bodies with metallic composites.

Take ants. Give them a hive mind and the ability to lay eggs for new types of ants the utilize genetics they have consumed to better overcome problems. Obviously the ants will take over the planet in short order, but nothing about that will make them realize the merits of sustainable farming or that re-engineering smallpox would cripple human resistance.

One snippet from the Necron codex actually mentions this.

Page 56, the writeup about Ghost Arks talks about the Charnovokh dynasty which has been besieged by Tyranids on the eastern fringe:

The Overlords of the scattered Charnovokh holdings were swift to realise that where the Tyranids consumed all living tissue, much of the mineral bounty of their prey worlds were left behind.

It goes on to say how they changed their tactics to utilize fleets of Ghost Arks to comb over old battlefields, patching together the broken remains of Necrons and putting them back into service.

Wow that excerpt manages to violate both Tyranid fluff and older Necron fluff. I'm impressed.

I mean, we know what Tyranid consumption does to a world, it not only strips any biomass of it, but also all its atmosphere, all its oceans and a notable percentage of the crust.

But also, Necron stuff comes with inbuilt teleporters to teleport back to the Tomb World in case of terminal manfuction, or in the worst cases disintegrates the Necron. It was both a plot point and a game mechanic that Necrons do not leave remains.

I've never heard of the disintegration part. I thought if you damaged a Necron enough their corpse just stayed there unless someone else moved it.

pm713 wrote:
I've never heard of the disintegration part. I thought if you damaged a Necron enough their corpse just stayed there unless someone else moved it.

They do have acces to such mechanism in order to prevent their secrets from being studied by anyone else.

Honestly I doubt it matters considering everyone elses technologies.

Didn't they self destruct if too far gone at one point in the fluff? And the Imperium were trying to develop a net that stopped communication with the teleporters. I might have misremembered but it was in an old white dwarf when the necrons were new.

pm713 wrote:
Honestly I doubt it matters considering everyone elses technologies.

Well the eldars would be very much interested in it, so ould the taus. The orks don't give a gak and the imperium lags way too far behind though.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Honestly I doubt it matters considering everyone elses technologies.

Well the eldars would be very much interested in it, so ould the taus. The orks don't give a gak and the imperium lags way too far behind though.

Eldar can't use it because all their technology is psychic and if they wanted it they would've taken it ages ago. The Tau probably have no clue how any of it works considering they're about the Imperiums tech level at the moment.

It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

pm713 wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Honestly I doubt it matters considering everyone elses technologies.

Well the eldars would be very much interested in it, so ould the taus. The orks don't give a gak and the imperium lags way too far behind though.

Eldar can't use it because all their technology is psychic and if they wanted it they would've taken it ages ago. The Tau probably have no clue how any of it works considering they're about the Imperiums tech level at the moment.

But it could still be a great way to improve counter tactics, the use of scavenging technology is not only to mimic it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I guess it depends how the pasing-out works. Is the referential point something akin to a "core" inside the Necron's body ? If that's the case, a separated limb won't get phased out. But, since Necrons are made of the so-called "living metal" which has these regenerative and overall weird abilities, can't we imagine that it is actually this metal's signature that is used as a signal for phasing-out and therefor even a torn limb will be phasing out with the main body ?

Engrenages wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I guess it depends how the pasing-out works. Is the referential point something akin to a "core" inside the Necron's body ? If that's the case, a separated limb won't get phased out. But, since Necrons are made of the so-called "living metal" which has these regenerative and overall weird abilities, can't we imagine that it is actually this metal's signature that is used as a signal for phasing-out and therefor even a torn limb will be phasing out with the main body ?

Thing is, as far as necron dephasing tech we can only assume things as the fluff, if i'm not mistaken, gives extremely tiny info about it. But your hypothesis since possible.

Whatever might be the secrets of necrn technology, it can only be useful to learn about them through scavenging, especially for their sworn enemies the eldars. On the contrary I wonder what the hive mind could make out of it. Maybe not much since "living metal" isn't to have DNA, which would be necesary for the nids to adapt: it's not like weapons and tactics where the answer is more relevantly formed troops and weapons to specifically counter a menace.

That's another hypothesis to further yours.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Honestly I doubt it matters considering everyone elses technologies.

Well the eldars would be very much interested in it, so ould the taus. The orks don't give a gak and the imperium lags way too far behind though.

Eldar can't use it because all their technology is psychic and if they wanted it they would've taken it ages ago. The Tau probably have no clue how any of it works considering they're about the Imperiums tech level at the moment.

But it could still be a great way to improve counter tactics, the use of scavenging technology is not only to mimic it.

That is a good point.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I was thinking the Necrons might be able to deliberately do it to rapidly reassemble units in the field. Maybe it's quicker if they do it that way than if they phase them back to the tomb world for repair?

As for the Tyranids leaving minerals behind, they consume a lot but then again a lot is still left so it's all relative. It's entirely possible that they can't use Necron materials and as such left them (and perhaps they would change their behaviour if the war goes on for sufficiently long and seek to break them down further with acid/whatever even if they can't absorb them).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I was thinking the Necrons might be able to deliberately do it to rapidly reassemble units in the field. Maybe it's quicker if they do it that way than if they phase them back to the tomb world for repair?

As for the Tyranids leaving minerals behind, they consume a lot but then again a lot is still left so it's all relative. It's entirely possible that they can't use Necron materials and as such left them (and perhaps they would change their behaviour if the war goes on for sufficiently long and seek to break them down further with acid/whatever even if they can't absorb them).

Straiht out of memories, phasing out is used primarly to protect the necron remains until they are teleported back to the necopole in order to be repaired. Thus it doesn't occur that they dephase if they actually are able to repair right away on the battlefield. Phase are also used by canoptek wraith so that the can operate and maintain the tomb worlds fully operationnal without having to strip it off: instaad the go directly through the walls. The sam goes for some weapons that by dephsing for very short times literrally ignore the victim's armour and retakes shape within the victim.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I was thinking the Necrons might be able to deliberately do it to rapidly reassemble units in the field. Maybe it's quicker if they do it that way than if they phase them back to the tomb world for repair?

As for the Tyranids leaving minerals behind, they consume a lot but then again a lot is still left so it's all relative. It's entirely possible that they can't use Necron materials and as such left them (and perhaps they would change their behaviour if the war goes on for sufficiently long and seek to break them down further with acid/whatever even if they can't absorb them).

Straiht out of memories, phasing out is used primarly to protect the necron remains until they are teleported back to the necopole in order to be repaired. Thus it doesn't occur that they dephase if they actually are able to repair right away on the battlefield. Phase are also used by canoptek wraith so that the can operate and maintain the tomb worlds fully operationnal without having to strip it off: instaad the go directly through the walls. The sam goes for some weapons that by dephsing for very short times literrally ignore the victim's armour and retakes shape within the victim.

I have two qestions on this phasing thing:

1) Why don't the parts just fall through the ground?
2) When phasing weapons enter a target through its armour, what happens to the displaced/replaced matter, and why does that effect not happen to the weapon?

 Selym wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's entirely possible that they are scavenging parts left behind after phase out. A necron gets its arm or leg cut off, then finished with a seperate blow and has the body phase out but leaves the limb behind. Given how much Nid weaponry is based around physically shredding opponents it isn't hard to imagine. Also afaik the extent to which phase out affects vehicles or canoptek machines (that as of newer fluff aren't Necrons proper) or even structures, deactivated tech, or turrets.

Obviously it COULD be violating fluff and would be far from the first thing, but it takes a decided unwillingness to use imagination to say so outright off such little information

I was thinking the Necrons might be able to deliberately do it to rapidly reassemble units in the field. Maybe it's quicker if they do it that way than if they phase them back to the tomb world for repair?

As for the Tyranids leaving minerals behind, they consume a lot but then again a lot is still left so it's all relative. It's entirely possible that they can't use Necron materials and as such left them (and perhaps they would change their behaviour if the war goes on for sufficiently long and seek to break them down further with acid/whatever even if they can't absorb them).

Straiht out of memories, phasing out is used primarly to protect the necron remains until they are teleported back to the necopole in order to be repaired. Thus it doesn't occur that they dephase if they actually are able to repair right away on the battlefield. Phase are also used by canoptek wraith so that the can operate and maintain the tomb worlds fully operationnal without having to strip it off: instaad the go directly through the walls. The sam goes for some weapons that by dephsing for very short times literrally ignore the victim's armour and retakes shape within the victim.

I have two qestions on this phasing thing:

1) Why don't the parts just fall through the ground?
2) When phasing weapons enter a target through its armour, what happens to the displaced/replaced matter, and why does that effect not happen to the weapon?

These are good questions. The fluff is unfortunatly very elusive about that stuff, mostly because it isn't possible in real life so far, thus they fail to provided a logical and satisfying explanation.

Maybe they don't fall through the ground because they ignore things like gravity? So if (with a weapon for example) you push them on purpose, they might, otherwise they just stay where they are. However then why don't necrons just fly about and how do they move under another force (such as the one your grip would apply)? Why don't they get stuck or mixed with the atter they might respawn into as far as the weapons are concerned? Still quite hard to tell.

Secondly, the idea with the weapons is maybe is that they kind of phase out of existence the time they need to go past the armour, and when they get back to existence they work just as usual. It is generally stated that those weapons "flicker in and out of existence". If anymatter is taken out that way, it surely is also either desintegrated, or also displaced to another dimension.

Once again the all phasing stuff is explained as what it does and why it's used for, but not in tems of "scientifc" explanations on how it works. Actually, it even has to do more with pseudo technological sorcery. But that's 40k in its most typical fashion.

Phasing is techno sorcery so there is no real world explanation of how it does what it does, or even what its limitations are.

Harlequins also use phasing in their Harlequin's caress weapon, which allows the user's hand to pass through armor and pluck out the target's heart. Somehow the Harlequin's arm still functions despite part of it being phased out and sticking through the target's armor, yet the hand has to then be able to phase back in enough to rip out the heart, then phase out to pass back out through the armor again. How does the device or Harlequin know what parts or when to trigger or not trigger phasing? No idea. Presumably through its controls, which for the Eldar are likely mental/psychic triggers. Necrons would use their own control systems obviously.

Iracundus wrote:
Phasing is techno sorcery so there is no real world explanation of how it does what it does, or even what its limitations are.

Harlequins also use phasing in their Harlequin's caress weapon, which allows the user's hand to pass through armor and pluck out the target's heart. Somehow the Harlequin's arm still functions despite part of it being phased out and sticking through the target's armor, yet the hand has to then be able to phase back in enough to rip out the heart, then phase out to pass back out through the armor again. How does the device or Harlequin know what parts or when to trigger or not trigger phasing? No idea. Presumably through its controls, which for the Eldar are likely mental/psychic triggers. Necrons would use their own control systems obviously.

Didn't know about Harlequins using it.