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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 23:19:57


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





w1zard wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.


Wolfsbane is VERY MUCH a "Must read core heresy novel" IMHO.

It addresses some intreasting points.
(as well as being our first look at Heresy Era Cawl)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 23:35:23


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

BrianDavion wrote:
w1zard wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.


Wolfsbane is VERY MUCH a "Must read core heresy novel" IMHO.

It addresses some intreasting points.
(as well as being our first look at Heresy Era Cawl)



Yep got to agree, I am about halfway through the book and it goes a long way to resolving the current mary sueness of cawl, now he is an actual character rather than what I said before

"Yeah I also think its a possibility and Cawl does indeed need to be fleshed out, at the moment he is just a plot device to hand wave things into the setting, but I am looking foward to seeing exactly how he achieved some of the things he has."
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I do know that Dorn and Malcador constantly butted heads because Dorn saw the Emperor as "perfect" and thought he could do no wrong, and thus always followed what the emperor said to the letter. Whereas Malcador saw the Emperor more like an equal and a colleague, and wasn't afraid to speak up and challenge the emperor if he believed that the emperor was making a mistake.

Ironically, the emperor had much more respect for Malcador than he ever had for any of his "sons", and was closer to him. Dorn was perplexed and somewhat jealous over this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 00:04:51


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
w1zard wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.


Wolfsbane is VERY MUCH a "Must read core heresy novel" IMHO.

It addresses some intreasting points.
(as well as being our first look at Heresy Era Cawl)



Yep got to agree, I am about halfway through the book and it goes a long way to resolving the current mary sueness of cawl, now he is an actual character rather than what I said before

"Yeah I also think its a possibility and Cawl does indeed need to be fleshed out, at the moment he is just a plot device to hand wave things into the setting, but I am looking foward to seeing exactly how he achieved some of the things he has."


Guy Haley is the same writer who wrote Dark Imperium, I suspect he's always been very cogonant of the fact that one day someone will have to explain "who is this guy, and where did he come from" and proably made sure he got the ball rolling.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
w1zard wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.


Wolfsbane is VERY MUCH a "Must read core heresy novel" IMHO.

It addresses some intreasting points.
(as well as being our first look at Heresy Era Cawl)



Yep got to agree, I am about halfway through the book and it goes a long way to resolving the current mary sueness of cawl, now he is an actual character rather than what I said before

"Yeah I also think its a possibility and Cawl does indeed need to be fleshed out, at the moment he is just a plot device to hand wave things into the setting, but I am looking foward to seeing exactly how he achieved some of the things he has."


Guy Haley is the same writer who wrote Dark Imperium, I suspect he's always been very cogonant of the fact that one day someone will have to explain "who is this guy, and where did he come from" and proably made sure he got the ball rolling.


While I dont rate guy "random plot twist" halyey normally, I have both enjoyed dark imperium and wolfbane (so far), he writes good dialogue but boring action scenes (very much he went here and did that then this happened), but to the point, its about time we got something on Cawl and more importantly, Russ actually facing the consequences of his actions with magnus and showing true regret, now I dont consider him a traitor anymore.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
w1zard wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn's worse then Russ. there's an intreasting scene in Wolfsbane where they end up talking about Nikea and Russ admits that his line on Psykers was, in retrospect, a mistake, and that Magnus should have been censors for how far he went but that Librarians where proving their worth. Dorn went off on him and they got in a huge fight because Dorn was incapable of stepping back and saying "yeah this was a mistake" and changing course.

Wow, I really need to read the new fluff. If what you are saying is true, that is a moment of introspection for Russ that I genuinely thought him incapable of. In all of the older fluff Russ was portrayed as a massive douche who saw absolutely no problem with condemning Magnus at nikea, whilst still using rune priests freely, and who took a great amount of joy in slaughtering every living thing on Prospero and never felt bad about it, even when he found out later he had been tricked by Horus into doing it. As far as I remember his attitude about the affair was "Well it sucks to be Magnus then... never liked the guy so I have no sympathy for him". He was also portrayed as illiterate and proud of the fact, it caused some friction between him and the Lion because the Lion was a scholar as well as a warrior and Russ saw that as unmanly.


Wolfsbane is VERY MUCH a "Must read core heresy novel" IMHO.

It addresses some intreasting points.
(as well as being our first look at Heresy Era Cawl)



Yep got to agree, I am about halfway through the book and it goes a long way to resolving the current mary sueness of cawl, now he is an actual character rather than what I said before

"Yeah I also think its a possibility and Cawl does indeed need to be fleshed out, at the moment he is just a plot device to hand wave things into the setting, but I am looking foward to seeing exactly how he achieved some of the things he has."


Guy Haley is the same writer who wrote Dark Imperium, I suspect he's always been very cogonant of the fact that one day someone will have to explain "who is this guy, and where did he come from" and proably made sure he got the ball rolling.


While I dont rate guy "random plot twist" halyey normally, I have both enjoyed dark imperium and wolfbane (so far), he writes good dialogue but boring action scenes (very much he went here and did that then this happened), but to the point, its about time we got something on Cawl and more importantly, Russ actually facing the consequences of his actions with magnus and showing true regret, now I dont consider him a traitor anymore.


Honestly, good dialogue is something that makes me forgive mediocre action sequences as even the well written action sequences in 40k are often pretty much the same. there's only so many ways to write "he shot the guy with his bolt gun"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Ain’t that the truth Brian, my favourite parts of the lore have always been the ground level conversations, primarchs showing very real human emotion and fears, normal people just trying to get by on an imperial world, musings on how the warp works, not bolter porn, never that.
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 Formosa wrote:

"you treat all as a game, that is why malcador sent for me, malcador cannot trust you, no one can trust you, your legion is a rabble that would brawl among themselves if you were not there to smack their heads together" Lion


OMG, are Space Wolves the Orks of the Imperium? HA!

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.

Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Mr Morden wrote:
It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.

Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.



He still is, even with his character being fleshed out, he is still a dick but he doesn’t mean to be, i and others have theorised that he is autistic, he does what he does because he just doesn’t get why people would do anything else, he is right because he is the smartest so you should listen to him, that’s basically (very basically) the lion in a nutshell.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Formosa wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.

Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.



He still is, even with his character being fleshed out, he is still a dick but he doesn’t mean to be, i and others have theorised that he is autistic, he does what he does because he just doesn’t get why people would do anything else, he is right because he is the smartest so you should listen to him, that’s basically (very basically) the lion in a nutshell.


I think you might be right


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
Ain’t that the truth Brian, my favourite parts of the lore have always been the ground level conversations, primarchs showing very real human emotion and fears, normal people just trying to get by on an imperial world, musings on how the warp works, not bolter porn, never that.


Agreed. my favorite HH novels have been ones with a buncha talking, people complained about the lack of action in Unremembered Empire but I LOVED it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 18:57:05


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.
Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.

He still is, even with his character being fleshed out, he is still a dick but he doesn’t mean to be, i and others have theorised that he is autistic, he does what he does because he just doesn’t get why people would do anything else, he is right because he is the smartest so you should listen to him, that’s basically (very basically) the lion in a nutshell.

Perturabo is that way as well. He grew up with an adoptive father that used him as a glorified battle supercomputer, and whose abilities made others in the court so fearful and jealous of him he faced nearly constant assassination attempts. He grew extremely paranoid and cynical and just preferred to be left alone with his machines and inventions.

When the emperor finally came, nothing really changed. Lo and behold, his real father now also used him as a glorified battle supercomputer. His paranoid nature and experiences with court intrigue on Olympia caused him to be very guarded with his new brothers, which they regarded as insulting so they treated him like crap in return, which caused him to become even more paranoid and withdrawn. You do things his way, because quite simply it is the best way, and he can show you the mathematical theorems that prove it. Doing anything else is just another example of "normies" being frustrating and illogical.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/28 22:09:21


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

w1zard wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.
Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.

He still is, even with his character being fleshed out, he is still a dick but he doesn’t mean to be, i and others have theorised that he is autistic, he does what he does because he just doesn’t get why people would do anything else, he is right because he is the smartest so you should listen to him, that’s basically (very basically) the lion in a nutshell.

Perturabo is that way as well. He grew up with an adoptive father that used him as a glorified battle supercomputer, and whose abilities made others in the court so fearful and jealous of him he faced nearly constant assassination attempts. He grew extremely paranoid and cynical and just preferred to be left alone with his machines and inventions.

When the emperor finally came, nothing really changed. Lo and behold, his real father now also used him as a glorified battle supercomputer. His paranoid nature and experiences with court intrigue on Olympia caused him to be very guarded with his new brothers, which they regarded as insulting so they treated him like crap in return, which caused him to become even more paranoid and withdrawn. You do things his way, because quite simply it is the best way, and he can show you the mathematical theorems that prove it. Doing anything else is just another example of "normies" being frustrating and illogical.



That’s an interesting interpretation of it, mine was different slightly and not saying your wrong just to be clear, we just took something different from the story.

Here’s my take.

Perturabos father actually did love him, he tried and tried to open up to him but the taint was already there so to speak, his entire life the “eye” was watching him and I think that subconsciously made him more paranoid, to such an extent that as you say, he isolated himself and eventually led to his nervous breakdown (awesome scene and quite uncomfortable to read about), like I said it’s just my take though and not nessesarily correct.
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Vector Strike wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

"you treat all as a game, that is why malcador sent for me, malcador cannot trust you, no one can trust you, your legion is a rabble that would brawl among themselves if you were not there to smack their heads together" Lion


OMG, are Space Wolves the Orks of the Imperium? HA!



The Orks are only looking for fights, the VI Legion were out for murder.
This is just a theory with a tad of evidence to back it but I'm guessing the VI Legion were designed to be a terror force, they were designed to spread fear of what the Emperor's forces could do, would you rather be liberated by Chapter 1 who look like ultimate warriors or go to war with Chapter 6 who look like ultimate warriors but also have sideburns, fangs and golden eyes and rumour says they turn into monsters and slaughter entire planets?
They were designed in isolation like the Alpha Legion and Salamanders and all their pre-Heresy stories are of excess brutality, they kind of mellow out after the Heresy.
If you read Lukas the Trickster he claims that the Space wolves were mellowed by the Fenrisian culture of alcohol and hero worship.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
Perturabos father actually did love him...

Not trying to be offensive but what makes you think that? When the emperor came and liberated Olympia and installed Perturabo as planetary governor, Perturabo's former "father" led an armed rebellion and fought to the bitter end because he refused to accept Perturabo's rulership. It's also kind of Perturabo's shtick that he doesn't really want to be a "weapon", he just wanted to build things and invent in a laboratory somewhere, away from everyone. He was forced into military service by his adoptive father who noticed his aptitude for analytical thinking and strategy. Once the emperor showed up he was once again forced into military service in the Great Crusade by his real father. He kind of convinced himself by saying "Ok well I don't really want to do this, but I can kind of create a great, wonderful and perfect Imperium of man by doing this so I guess it isn't so horribly intolerable, and if I'm going to do it then I'm going to do it the right way, MY way". He also had a massive superiority complex because he was so used to being so much better then all of the "normal" humans around him on Olympia and he kind of carried that attitude with him into the greater Imperium, where it wasn't exactly warranted as much.

Don't get me wrong, Perturabo had his flaws as a human being, but he was by no means an evil person at heart, just utterly pragmatic to the point that others saw him as abrasive even when there was no malicious intent behind his actions. The decimation of his own legion was a perfect example. His perfectionism rankled at that fact that his legion, was by no means "bad" but really couldn't hold a candle to the other legions. It was also a way for him to really get across the point to his men that he was in charge and they were going to do things his way, and if they didn't shape up there would be consequences. Guess what? It worked. He was just completely bewildered as to why other people (Guilliman in particular) hated him for it. Was he not simply doing his job by the most efficient means possible? The emperor actually even approved it, so why did others complain? He just didn't understand what the big deal was. It didn't help that culturally, the practice of decimation was a common and accepted practice among the warlords of Olympia so again, doubly so he was doing nothing wrong, at least in his mind.

Honestly, there was nothing predetermining him to fall to chaos like Curze or Angron (the moment the emperor teleported Angron away from Desh'elika Ridge he doomed him to fall). Other primarchs, (especially Russ) have done far worse things than Perturabo and still remained loyal and were still accepted by the Imperium. IMO Perturabo falling to chaos could have been easily avoided if the emperor actually treated him like a son instead of a weapon, and his brothers were less douchebags toward him and made allowances for his bad attitude due to the environment from which he came. It also would have helped if Perturabo would have gotten credit where it was due for his victories instead of other legions swooping in at the last moment after the battle had already been won by the Iron Warriors and intentionally trying to steal the glory *COUGH* Imperial Fists *COUGH*.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/29 07:44:32


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

w1zard wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Perturabos father actually did love him...

Not trying to be offensive but what makes you think that? When the emperor came and liberated Olympia and installed Perturabo as planetary governor, Perturabo's former "father" led an armed rebellion and fought to the bitter end because he refused to accept Perturabo's rulership. It's also kind of Perturabo's shtick that he doesn't really want to be a "weapon", he just wanted to build things and invent in a laboratory somewhere, away from everyone. He was forced into military service by his adoptive father who noticed his aptitude for analytical thinking and strategy. Once the emperor showed up he was once again forced into military service in the Great Crusade by his real father. He kind of convinced himself by saying "Ok well I don't really want to do this, but I can kind of create a great, wonderful and perfect Imperium of man by doing this so I guess it isn't so horribly intolerable, and if I'm going to do it then I'm going to do it the right way, MY way". He also had a massive superiority complex because he was so used to being so much better then all of the "normal" humans around him on Olympia and he kind of carried that attitude with him into the greater Imperium, where it wasn't exactly warranted as much.

Don't get me wrong, Perturabo had his flaws as a human being, but he was by no means an evil person at heart, just utterly pragmatic to the point that others saw him as abrasive even when there was no malicious intent behind his actions. The decimation of his own legion was a perfect example. His perfectionism rankled at that fact that his legion, was by no means "bad" but really couldn't hold a candle to the other legions. It was also a way for him to really get across the point to his men that he was in charge and they were going to do things his way, and if they didn't shape up there would be consequences. Guess what? It worked. He was just completely bewildered as to why other people (Guilliman in particular) hated him for it. Was he not simply doing his job by the most efficient means possible? The emperor actually even approved it, so why did others complain? He just didn't understand what the big deal was. It didn't help that culturally, the practice of decimation was a common and accepted practice among the warlords of Olympia so again, doubly so he was doing nothing wrong, at least in his mind.

Honestly, there was nothing predetermining him to fall to chaos like Curze or Angron (the moment the emperor teleported Angron away from Desh'elika Ridge he doomed him to fall). Other primarchs, (especially Russ) have done far worse things than Perturabo and still remained loyal and were still accepted by the Imperium. IMO Perturabo falling to chaos could have been easily avoided if the emperor actually treated him like a son instead of a weapon, and his brothers were less douchebags toward him and made allowances for his bad attitude due to the environment from which he came. It also would have helped if Perturabo would have gotten credit where it was due for his victories instead of other legions swooping in at the last moment after the battle had already been won by the Iron Warriors and intentionally trying to steal the glory *COUGH* Imperial Fists *COUGH*.



Wait... before I reply properly to this I need to check if you have read primarchs peturabo as I may be dropping spoilers a lot if you haven’t.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
Wait... before I reply properly to this I need to check if you have read primarchs peturabo as I may be dropping spoilers a lot if you haven’t.

I have not, as that is a relatively recent addition to the black library. But go ahead, I don't mind spoilers.

Most of what I know about Perturabo's background comes from older fluff like Angel Exterminatus.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

w1zard wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Wait... before I reply properly to this I need to check if you have read primarchs peturabo as I may be dropping spoilers a lot if you haven’t.

I have not, as that is a relatively recent addition to the black library. But go ahead, I don't mind spoilers.

Most of what I know about Perturabo's background comes from older fluff like Angel Exterminatus.


Coolio I will put it in a spoiler tag though.

Spoiler:
Ok, so it turns out it wasnt the tyrant of locos that started the rebellion, it was peturabos sister and it wasnt really a rebellion, I will let you read it to see what I mean, suffice to say Perty at this point is already verging on the edge of being a broken man, and the "rebellion" gives him that push, he goes back to olympia, has a little meeting and sets the Iron Warriors on the populace, some agree, some dont, he then goes to the palace and meets his sister, who is old now, odd thing is, he actually liked his sister originally, almost loved her, they have a conversation, which alone is worth the read of the entire book, and he kills her, which is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak, Peturabo has a full on nervous breakdown, he realises that his father really did love him and wasnt trying to use him and time and time again he reached out to bring in into his family properly, he realised it was him that caused issues with his brothers, not his brothers hating him, and he realises that he has murdered his sister for telling the truth, so when Forrix? IIRC finds him, he is a sobbing mess sitting with his back to the wall, its pretty heart breaking.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh caveat, I am missing out a looooooooooooooot, read the book, its really really good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 11:56:38


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wow, I really do need to read the new stuff. If what you say is true, it puts a whole new spin on Perturabo's fall. He was portrayed super sympathetically in Angel Exterminatus, and you really got a feel for why he did the things he did and acted the way he acted. You got to see how badly his brothers treated him, how uncaring the emperor was towards him, how crappy his upbringing on Olympia was, and how badly him and his legion got spit on while doing the worst of the fighting and the dying on crusade while the rest of the legions sopped up the glory. In one part, the IW are fighting a super entrenched enemy on a fortress world, they spent months carefully cracking the defenses little by little and taking massive casualties the entire time. Then right before the final assault, Dorn comes along and basically says something along the lines of "Hey Perturabo, what's taking so long with that world? It doesn't look too tough, I betcha me and my Imperial Fists boys can take it in a single day." He then proceeds to assault the fortress using Perturabo's own battle plan, and takes minimal casualties while doing it because the IW have been systematically weakening, starving and depleting the ammunition of the defenders. Dorn then turns around and says "See? What did I tell you? You really need to get it together little brother." All of the other primarchs are super impressed and shower Dorn with accolades, while Perturabo sits in the corner grinding his teeth, not being able to say anything because it would make him look even more petulant and jealous than his brothers already thought he was. TBH after I read that novel, I put the tragedy of Perturabo's fall up there with Magnus'.

But those stories were from Perturabo's perspective, and it would be interesting to see how much of that stuff was actually in his own head and how much was real.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/29 13:03:25


 
   
Made in ca
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OP is right. I mentally have a boner for Dark Angels, but Russ would never say that. Theres nothing worse than reading a book about your favourite characters when that book makes them look bad despite their name being in the title...

They were evenly matched. The author is just a schmuck.

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Made in gb
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 Formosa wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It used to be that Russ saw the futility of the fight and stopped to laugh, but the Lion punched him out anyway.

Its interesting as the Lion in the HH books has been consistently a complete and total dick from day one and the old story would fit that very well.



He still is, even with his character being fleshed out, he is still a dick but he doesn’t mean to be, i and others have theorised that he is autistic, he does what he does because he just doesn’t get why people would do anything else, he is right because he is the smartest so you should listen to him, that’s basically (very basically) the lion in a nutshell.

I always feel a little bad for the Lion. He has no idea how to interact with people but that's pretty normal for growing up alone in a forest full of chaos beasts. All things considered I think the Lion is doing fantastically.

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UK

123ply wrote:
OP is right. I mentally have a boner for Dark Angels, but Russ would never say that. Theres nothing worse than reading a book about your favourite characters when that book makes them look bad despite their name being in the title...



Agreed

I was quite irritated by the portrayal of Neferata in Lord of Undeath by C L Werner

Rather than being powerful, dangerous and manipulative she is weak and pretty much scared of her own shadow (as is the only named handmaiden) unlike of course the male vampires.....UGHH after the brilliant portrayals of her in previous BL Novels (highlighting both her good and bad points) it was really poor - hoping the new book is better.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Mr Morden wrote:
123ply wrote:
OP is right. I mentally have a boner for Dark Angels, but Russ would never say that. Theres nothing worse than reading a book about your favourite characters when that book makes them look bad despite their name being in the title...



Agreed

I was quite irritated by the portrayal of Neferata in Lord of Undeath by C L Werner

Rather than being powerful, dangerous and manipulative she is weak and pretty much scared of her own shadow (as is the only named handmaiden) unlike of course the male vampires.....UGHH after the brilliant portrayals of her in previous BL Novels (highlighting both her good and bad points) it was really poor - hoping the new book is better.


It is, don't worry. She plays everybody like the string section of an orchestra.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
123ply wrote:
OP is right. I mentally have a boner for Dark Angels, but Russ would never say that. Theres nothing worse than reading a book about your favourite characters when that book makes them look bad despite their name being in the title...



Agreed

I was quite irritated by the portrayal of Neferata in Lord of Undeath by C L Werner

Rather than being powerful, dangerous and manipulative she is weak and pretty much scared of her own shadow (as is the only named handmaiden) unlike of course the male vampires.....UGHH after the brilliant portrayals of her in previous BL Novels (highlighting both her good and bad points) it was really poor - hoping the new book is better.


It is, don't worry. She plays everybody like the string section of an orchestra.


Good I liked the short story so looking forward to this one - I didn't realise it was out yet?

I couldn't get into the early HH novels featuring the Lion I will admit.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Mr Morden wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
123ply wrote:
OP is right. I mentally have a boner for Dark Angels, but Russ would never say that. Theres nothing worse than reading a book about your favourite characters when that book makes them look bad despite their name being in the title...



Agreed

I was quite irritated by the portrayal of Neferata in Lord of Undeath by C L Werner

Rather than being powerful, dangerous and manipulative she is weak and pretty much scared of her own shadow (as is the only named handmaiden) unlike of course the male vampires.....UGHH after the brilliant portrayals of her in previous BL Novels (highlighting both her good and bad points) it was really poor - hoping the new book is better.


It is, don't worry. She plays everybody like the string section of an orchestra.


Good I liked the short story so looking forward to this one - I didn't realise it was out yet?

I couldn't get into the early HH novels featuring the Lion I will admit.


Just an answer before this goes off topic, but the ltd ed is out. I don't get them normally, but I fell hard for the cover.
   
Made in us
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Florida

Delvarus, honestly you are just coming across as extremely TRIGGERED that Russ got beat by one of his brothers.

You realize that nearly ever single HH novel slightly changes/adds/subtracts from previous lore? Do we all scream 'BIAS!' every time we find out old legends didn't happen exactly how we had always thought? No we don't.

And to quote previous 'lore' as concrete truth is a fools errand. GW changes lore with every book, codex or white dwarf that comes out.


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