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Agreed. Houses are there to be lived in. If they're not being lived in, then why do you need it in the first place?

Second home, for example my parents split their time about 60/40 between their house in Ealing, west London and their cottage Beaminster, west Dorset. They bought the cottage after retiring.

I think there is merit in your idea but there are also potential problems.

For example, lots of people in the UK buy holiday cottages and let them out for half the year, while keeping a few weeks for their own holidays. These cottages are registered as businesses and pay no council tax (used to support local services like rubbish collection and road repairs.) Is seven months of occupation enough to qualify?

Due to a legal loophole, they also pay no business rates if the annual turnover is less than £12,000. Obviously this loophole is a modern peculiarity of UK law, but it illustrates the kind of things you need to think about when designing laws that need to balance the varying demands of housing, taxation and property ownership.

I would say the basic problem is the massive inequality that has built up over the past generation, which gives the top 1% the ability to buy all sorts of property while making it very difficult for the bottom 50% to buy any property at all.

Yes people do that, it's a huge problem and is decimating many rural and island communities, so tbh you'll struggle to find anyone except people who own second homes who cares if policies intended to make housing more affordable also end up making owning second homes untenable.

My point is that it isn't as easy as just saying let's have a policy to make owning second homes untenable.

My parents, for example, are "good" second home owners. They pay full council tax at both houses, and take full part in the local communities, going to church, buying things in local shops, visiting local attractions, employing local people as cleaners and plumbers and so on.

A no second homes policy will wipe them ut, but it won't affect the "bad" second home owners who've purchased their properties through company vehicles.

A policy to deal with "bad" second home owners will wipe out the private rental sector including holiday cottages, student halls of residence, and so on, unless very carefully worked out, with lots of caveats and probably loopholes.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Second home, for example my parents split their time about 60/40 between their house in Ealing, west London and their cottage Beaminster, west Dorset. They bought the cottage after retiring.

I think there is merit in your idea but there are also potential problems.

FWIW I agree with this last bit. . . Obviously if we the members of Dakka were the governing body of the planet and discussing this issue, we'd need to carefully craft any law like this such that the wrong people aren't punished.

IMHO, the "intent" behind the idea is a good one, lets prevent outside "investors" from buying up hundreds of properties at a time that then let them just sit, creating a shortage and price increase, and then swoop in all heroically while raking in the dough. I'd read an article fairly recently about how theres a neighborhood in Vancouver BC that is 90% owned by Chinese investors. At the same time as these properties are basically all owned by outsiders, apparently only 50% of them are currently occupied all while rental rates keep increasing due to "shortage".


I don't think many of us have too much issue with mom and dad having a summer cottage, or a winter cabin or whatever that they actually use for a decent part of the year. What I think many people do take umbrage at, are situations like I mentioned above, where someone buys a property purely as an investment with absolutely no intention to occupy it, and with potential aims of starving the market for a while to increase their personal profits.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Second home, for example my parents split their time about 60/40 between their house in Ealing, west London and their cottage Beaminster, west Dorset. They bought the cottage after retiring.

I think there is merit in your idea but there are also potential problems.

Obviously if we the members of Dakka were the governing body of the planet and discussing this issue, we'd need to carefully craft any law like this such that the wrong people aren't punished.

You know guys, I really think Dakka should be the governing body of the planet. We should start a world revolution and make it so.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Second home, for example my parents split their time about 60/40 between their house in Ealing, west London and their cottage Beaminster, west Dorset. They bought the cottage after retiring.

I think there is merit in your idea but there are also potential problems.

Obviously if we the members of Dakka were the governing body of the planet and discussing this issue, we'd need to carefully craft any law like this such that the wrong people aren't punished.

You know guys, I really think Dakka should be the governing body of the planet. We should start a world revolution and make it so.

Well there is some nightmare fuel for me. Dakka shouldn't govern anything...ever..

It's hard to govern if we can't talk politics...

 d-usa wrote:
It's hard to govern if we can't talk politics...

Zing!

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Second home, for example my parents split their time about 60/40 between their house in Ealing, west London and their cottage Beaminster, west Dorset. They bought the cottage after retiring.

I think there is merit in your idea but there are also potential problems.

Obviously if we the members of Dakka were the governing body of the planet and discussing this issue, we'd need to carefully craft any law like this such that the wrong people aren't punished.

You know guys, I really think Dakka should be the governing body of the planet. We should start a world revolution and make it so.

Well there is some nightmare fuel for me. Dakka shouldn't govern anything...ever..

Imagine the courts. *shudders*

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Imagine the courts. *shudders*

Why imagine if you can look…

To keep those updated on various housing expenses, I am getting the pavers around my pool cleaned and re-sealed this week. 2-3 years ago it was $700, and will prob be a little more now. This is routine maintenance. I had no idea when I got the house that you even had to reseal pavers, but even still, with all the rain we get here in summer, a lot of black mold gets in the cracks as the sand wears away and it starts looking like crap anyway.

Again, not something you think about when pricing the monthly mortgage payment.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Oh, and my neighbor who helped me replace my hot water heater was denied home insurance renewal until he replaces his roof, as its hitting close to 20 years. He has no leaks, but they want him to replace it anyway. So he is looking to get a home equity loan to do it. Sounds like a total scam.

And I know of another guy who was selling his home in Miami, and the home inspector failed the house because the roof was 20 years old. Again, no leaks. But this killed the sale, and now he has to replace the roof in order to sell the house.

My neighbors just replaced their roof. The estimates were all over the place, but they settled on a company that did it for $11k. I swear the whole crew looked like illegal immigrants.

I assume I will need to do the same soon as well. And I have never had a leak.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Further edit:

Oh dear, here we go again:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/mortgage-fraud-is-getting-worse-as-more-people-lie-about-their-income.html

I swear you can see the roots reaching out already.

So someone in my neighborhood was able to get the county to replace some of the sidewalks in front of people's houses since the oak trees that line our street are starting to lift some of them up. I have one myself and it did cause some of it to lift, but the county came by and shaved some of it off to smooth it out. Well, that wasn't good enough for a woman who lives in our neighborhood, so she got the county to come out and completely tear up the sidewalk in front of over a dozen houses, cut the roots back, and lay out a new sidewalk. Thus, I got a new sidewalk.

However, in the process of cutting back the roots, they cut right through a sprinkler line. I swear, if you've followed any of these posts you'd see its been one thing after another with my sprinkler system. I didn't have to pay for the contractor to come out and fix it, but the grass around the sidewalk looks like crap from all the action thats been going on there. I would have fixed it myself too, I am not one to make a big deal, but the pipe that needed to be replaced was UNDER the new sidewalk. So I let them dig everything out.

No cost to me, but just goes to show how things can happen.

Also, I have had planter boxes I made on my back patio for years and was all set to build new ones as the old ones were starting to rot (I like plants), but honestly I am sick of this, and this would be my third time building them. I went for pots instead. Normally I detest shopping for stuff like this, and Lowes and HP really have crap when it comes to planters, but I found a couple of local shops that sell some high end stuff. So I dropped over $800 on some really nice glazed pots that should last forever. So between the paver cleaning and sealing, and the new pots and layout, my pool area look brand new.

Also, last winter some raccoons got into my patio area, well, I leave food out for them, and tore up a little of the cushion covers of my really nice wicker sofa out there. I contacted the store I bought them from and they come special ordered from Canada. Well, they screwed up the order and sent me the wrong ones, however, I liked the new ones which were much better quality much more than I did the old ones. So knowing he wasn't going to make any money, he offered to finish off the whole couch for a discount. So for $400 I got 6 new covers. Sounds expensive but this was cheap considering the actual cost of the covers.

So the cost of redoing my pool area is 700 + 800 + 400 and I have still some more pots to buy, and I want to replace my patio table and chairs, which could run $3k.

Pricey I know, but what is the point of having a nice patio and pool if you aren't going to make it look nice. But again, you don't think about these things when you are signing the dotted line.

 KTG17 wrote:
So someone in my neighborhood was able to get the county to replace some of the sidewalks in front of people's houses since the oak trees that line our street are starting to lift some of them up. I have one myself and it did cause some of it to lift, but the county came by and shaved some of it off to smooth it out. Well, that wasn't good enough for a woman who lives in our neighborhood, so she got the county to come out and completely tear up the sidewalk in front of over a dozen houses, cut the roots back, and lay out a new sidewalk. Thus, I got a new sidewalk.

However, in the process of cutting back the roots, they cut right through a sprinkler line. I swear, if you've followed any of these posts you'd see its been one thing after another with my sprinkler system. I didn't have to pay for the contractor to come out and fix it, but the grass around the sidewalk looks like crap from all the action thats been going on there. I would have fixed it myself too, I am not one to make a big deal, but the pipe that needed to be replaced was UNDER the new sidewalk. So I let them dig everything out.

No cost to me, but just goes to show how things can happen.

I find it ironic that it's always local governments who are big on the "call before you dig" and can fine you if you hit a water line. . . yet they didn't "bother" to check for any lines on your property??

Lol yeah they marked off the gas line, but didn’t ask about the waterline.

Also turns out they did the same thing to a number of my neighbors.

Strongly related, in a few weeks, California will be polling whether to repeal the law that bans rent control. It's one of the more garbage props that I've seen come up, and is unlikely to pass.

Yes, housing is bad in California, but adding rent control will only make things worse.

Do you live in California? From what I read it sounds like a tough place to live as far as owning a home. The amount of money I read people paying makes me queasy. What is worse the materials these homes are made out of, and many are old homes, are the same as everywhere else. Wood, brick, concrete, etc. Its all the same gak. All that extra money is going to location. And then the taxes are pretty high too.

I have pretty much crossed Cali from my list of places I would be interested in living in. But now I hear Oregon and Washington are starting to have issues too.

 KTG17 wrote:

I have pretty much crossed Cali from my list of places I would be interested in living in. But now I hear Oregon and Washington are starting to have issues too.

I can speak a bit to Oregon and Washington's issues. . . So, in the case of Washington, we have a booming housing construction market. . . There's 3 new home developments being graded or actively built (graded meaning they are laying the sewer lines, prepping the lots/ground for eventual permitting/construction of homes) within 2 miles of my house that I know of, and there's signage for about half a dozen beyond that. The problem is that literally all of the new construction is "luxury" apartments or other similar buzzwords in single-family homes, and thus the majority of the prices are simply out of reach for a lot of people. Combine that with the simply higher cost of living than many other places (I think that much is getting like California). I'm also seeing that the increased pricing on new construction has been having a sort of dragging effect on older (and much older) homes in that their prices are continuing to rise as well. I went on Zillow a couple weeks ago, and there are a number of properties that I can sort of loosely describe as "former meth labs" in Tacoma proper that were 700-800 sq. ft. with a listing price of $280-500k. Now, I bought my home outside of Tacoma, it was new construction when we bought at the end of 2013 beginning of 14, our house is 2400 sq. ft. and we bought for 250k. There just isn't really a "reasonable" option around here. Even my wife's co-worker just bought a house. . . he got a double wide trailer on 2.5-3 acres (or something like that, landwise) for just a bit more than we got our "big" house on tiny land for.


On the Oregon side of the border, it appears quite different. . . Taking the largest "markets" in the state, being Salem and the Portland Metro area, and what I've seen is a zoning/permitting problem. . . In short, they've built all the houses they can based on the zoning, city limits and other legal type things. . . While at the same time, companies like Nike, HP, and others are still hiring more people, so there are still people coming in with a small amount of population growth, but there's no real new housing going in. Obviously this shortage is gonna drive prices up.

Well that means that lenders are going to have to lower their standards on what qualifies for a mortgage loan too, which is going to cause a whole host of issues down the road.

The main reason I post all the crap that gak has costed me recently is to try to drive home the point to those who want to own a home how much more expensive it is beyond the mortgage payment. It’s not like renting. You are responsible for all of it. If you buy beyond your means to save and maintain it, you will drown in debt. A home is probably the most expensive thing you will ever buy and there is a lot to consider.

This week I am off work and guess what I am doing? Repainting my house. And I am doing it myself rather than hire other peeps to do it and it will still cost me hundreds of dollars and time.