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Typo wrote:
Less of a discussion, and more of stating the obvious? At least for anyone who’s read the first couple of heresy books.

Are we sure onething isn't a bot?

w1zard wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
... that he really was humanity's last, best hope and that he failed because Chaos outplayed him despite his brilliance.

Because that is pretty fething dark and depressing, even by grimdark 40k standards. I think the setting has become so grimdark recently that it has almost become a parody of itself, and I actually really like the return of Guilliman injecting a little bit of hope back into the setting and refreshing the narrative. Don't get me wrong, the setting is supposed to be dystopian... but there is only so dystopian you can get before people's suspension of disbelief is broken, or people lose interest.

For a long while it was too bloody cheerful and hopeful, with bizarre tech improvements every space marine codex, and even a few people or one person coming out of the HH novels believing that the Emperor has done nothing wrong indicates a major misplay in the presentation of the setting.
I'd just be happier if it was consistently dystopian, and the POV characters had little idea of what they lost.

The secret to 40k it was always a parody, even of itself. When people start taking it seriously it's time for a break.


---
That all said, I think the return of Guilliman is another misplay. Rather than double down on chaos breaking the galaxy in half, it should have brought some internal wrangling and factionalization of the Imperium. If Ultramar went one way and the Ecclesiarchy went another way, we'd finally have a good reason for all the Imperial-on-Imperial action that goes on. A new civil war would have been interesting and a breath of fresh air in a new direction. Instead we got the same old Nurgle goop everywhere.

Something I find weird in GW's writing in general is that it's only ever one of the four gods that does anything special at a time. It's like they take turns to launch campaigns.

pm713 wrote:
Something I find weird in GW's writing in general is that it's only ever one of the four gods that does anything special at a time. It's like they take turns to launch campaigns.

Everyone is psychically connected in the warp. I think once one God begins to gain traction it's influence begins to spread quickly in the collective gestalt of the Galaxy, especially amongst the weak minded of the Galaxy.

 Togusa wrote:

Typo wrote:
Less of a discussion, and more of stating the obvious? At least for anyone who’s read the first couple of heresy books.

Are we sure onething isn't a bot?

A bot, no, the posts are way too “human” for a bot. More like a kid who doesn’t understand forum etiquette and adopts the “I’m taking my ball and going home” mindset when people don’t just sagely nod and puff on their pipe every time he repeats himself into the ground.

pm713 wrote:
Something I find weird in GW's writing in general is that it's only ever one of the four gods that does anything special at a time. It's like they take turns to launch campaigns.

The Gods are all playing two games. One against each other and one in the material world to expand their influence there. Put to much of their vast but finite resources into either leaves them vulnerable to the other three. It's likely that when one god gets extra frisky in the materium, the other three try to jump them at the warp.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Something I find weird in GW's writing in general is that it's only ever one of the four gods that does anything special at a time. It's like they take turns to launch campaigns.

The Gods are all playing two games. One against each other and one in the material world to expand their influence there. Put to much of their vast but finite resources into either leaves them vulnerable to the other three. It's likely that when one god gets extra frisky in the materium, the other three try to jump them at the warp.

Eh there are still things like the End Times where Nurgle turns into an unstoppable horde and the others are just sort of there.

Did the Emperor want to be a god?

Don't we all?......but from the Heresy series/novels it seems that He was solely focused on the Webway Project even implying to the Khan that the entire crusade was launched to harness it and stating to the legio custodes Ra that the Webway was more important than the collapsing Imperium. So it seems the Webway was the goal rather than divinity. But with some of the things said in the novels a more appropriate question would be "Is the Emperor the last remaining Old One?"
I know it's been discussed to death but.......

Traitorius wrote:
Did the Emperor want to be a god?

Don't we all?......but from the Heresy series/novels it seems that He was solely focused on the Webway Project even implying to the Khan that the entire crusade was launched to harness it and stating to the legio custodes Ra that the Webway was more important than the collapsing Imperium. So it seems the Webway was the goal rather than divinity. But with some of the things said in the novels a more appropriate question would be "Is the Emperor the last remaining Old One?"
I know it's been discussed to death but.......

Why would you launch the crusade to take the Webway? You'd need to go as far as Mars at most for that.

Voss wrote:

For a long while it was too bloody cheerful and hopeful, with bizarre tech improvements every space marine codex, and even a few people or one person coming out of the HH novels believing that the Emperor has done nothing wrong indicates a major misplay in the presentation of the setting.
I'd just be happier if it was consistently dystopian, and the POV characters had little idea of what they lost.

The secret to 40k it was always a parody, even of itself. When people start taking it seriously it's time for a break.

Actually, I like the fact that 40k is taken seriously now as a sci-fi setting. It shows maturity. 40k may have started as a joke (WHFB in SPAAAAACE), but it has grown into something more. A setting that can be taken as seriously as star wars or star trek. Sure there is some silliness (orks), but I never understood the people who thought that 40k being a parody of itself was "charming", or that being grimdark for the sake of being grimdark even when it doesn't make sense was the way the setting was supposed to be. To me it was just childish.

I love how 40k blends dune, starship troopers (the book and the movie), star wars, and a dystopian twist with a fantasy element base to make something entirely unique.

To me what makes 40k unique is the Warp and its relationship with reality.

The Emperor did not want to be a god, no.

But he is one regardless.

Not to take the webway....to finish the golden throne project, maybe by collecting missing components or tech throughout the galaxy. It's theorized in Path of Heaven.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Typo wrote:
Less of a discussion, and more of stating the obvious? At least for anyone who’s read the first couple of heresy books.

Are we sure onething isn't a bot?

A bot, no, the posts are way too “human” for a bot. More like a kid who doesn’t understand forum etiquette and adopts the “I’m taking my ball and going home” mindset when people don’t just sagely nod and puff on their pipe every time he repeats himself into the ground.

I'm twenty years old.

w1zard wrote:

Voss wrote:

For a long while it was too bloody cheerful and hopeful, with bizarre tech improvements every space marine codex, and even a few people or one person coming out of the HH novels believing that the Emperor has done nothing wrong indicates a major misplay in the presentation of the setting.
I'd just be happier if it was consistently dystopian, and the POV characters had little idea of what they lost.

The secret to 40k it was always a parody, even of itself. When people start taking it seriously it's time for a break.

Actually, I like the fact that 40k is taken seriously now as a sci-fi setting. It shows maturity. 40k may have started as a joke (WHFB in SPAAAAACE), but it has grown into something more. A setting that can be taken as seriously as star wars or star trek. Sure there is some silliness (orks), but I never understood the people who thought that 40k being a parody of itself was "charming", or that being grimdark for the sake of being grimdark even when it doesn't make sense was the way the setting was supposed to be. To me it was just childish.

That wasn't what I meant. I don't mean take it seriously as a 'legit' sci-fi setting. That'd be silly, as it hasn't grown into anything more.

I meant take the parody seriously as material for legitimate philosophical or thematic discussions- people are wrong to do so. Overanalyzing the Imperium isn't going to increase your knowledge of real-world governments or religions, and it would be downright offensive (and criminal) to try to apply 40k principles to the real world. In the 40k setting it is completely rational to eradicate marginalized groups, kill people for religious beliefs. and commit genocide. That isn't something to take seriously. It is VERY important to understand that it is parody/satire/dark humor all the way down.

I love how 40k blends dune, starship troopers (the book and the movie), star wars, and a dystopian twist with a fantasy element base to make something entirely unique.

That, definitionally, is not unique.
Mostly because none of it is blended together. It doesn't matter how much 'Aliens' sauce you drizzle on the hard chunks of Dune and 2000 AD, all those bits are still entirely recognizable as what they were pulled from, nothing exists to metaphorically heat it up and tie it together.

Onething123456 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Typo wrote:
Less of a discussion, and more of stating the obvious? At least for anyone who’s read the first couple of heresy books.

Are we sure onething isn't a bot?

A bot, no, the posts are way too “human” for a bot. More like a kid who doesn’t understand forum etiquette and adopts the “I’m taking my ball and going home” mindset when people don’t just sagely nod and puff on their pipe every time he repeats himself into the ground.

I'm twenty years old.

Quite sophisticated there, AI that doesn't know it's AI. Just like in the film of the same name.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Typo wrote:
Less of a discussion, and more of stating the obvious? At least for anyone who’s read the first couple of heresy books.

Are we sure onething isn't a bot?

A bot, no, the posts are way too “human” for a bot. More like a kid who doesn’t understand forum etiquette and adopts the “I’m taking my ball and going home” mindset when people don’t just sagely nod and puff on their pipe every time he repeats himself into the ground.

I'm twenty years old.

Quite sophisticated there, AI that doesn't know it's AI. Just like in the film of the same name.

Alright. Bye.

Some people feel the emperor didn't care about anyone, but I'm not sure if that's true. I think he may have cared about the primarchs almost too much.

It was like he could not kill one even when common sense was p[ractically screaming at him to do so, as in Angron's case.

He couldn't seem to kill angron, he seemed to want to save Curze, his first meeting with him showed great compassion for him, he had to discipline lorgar but again didn't kill him.

I mean finally he sent russ to kill magnus but onl;y after magnus FUBARed his greatest work.

Lastly, he did obliterate horus when hors pleaded with him to, but the lore suggests it may have been an act of compassion to spare horus the fate the chaos gods would impose on him. Or it could have been a practical act to keep him from returning, the lore leaves both possibilities as valid ones.

The 40k universe is a very tough place, keeping humanity alive and undominated by aliens or chaos was a hard job, the emperor had to make hard choices that hurt a lot of people. I don't think that means he didn;t care, he did it maybe because he cared.

I think he cared about the primarchs, possibly a little too much.