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 BaconCatBug wrote:
They have different datasheets.

Can you show that to a TO? No, you cannot. You would end up showing the same datasheet twice. It's on the same page of the same codex with the same <Chapter tactic> keyword.
You selected it, THEN changed the keyword.

I am not arguing that they aren't treated differently and come with different rules AFTER you swap their <Chapter tactic>
But they did share the SAME datasheet when selected, which is all the Rule of 3 cares about

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 Excommunicatus wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Lest you still not see plain logic, this from the Rulebook FAQ:

Q1) Some units, like Carnifexes and Leman Russ Battle Tanks, can contain up to 3 models each, but after they are set up on the battlefield, they each become individual units. How many of these models can I include in my army if I’m using the Organised Events guidelines for, say, a 2,000 point game? A1) You can include up to 3 units in a 2,000 point game, meaning you could include up to 9 of these models.

Given Russes have <REGIMENT> that is functionally identical to <CRAFTWORLD> we have clear guidance, and proof Exvommunucatis and Baconcatbug are wrong. RAW.

You are going to hurt yourself stretching like that without a proper warmup.

That question and answer does not speak to this situation. Keywords are not mentioned or considered.

It most certainly does speak to this situation. The answer would not be 3 datasheets if changing the regiment would have it count as a different datasheet. Denial isn't only a river in Egypt.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Let's use a better example: Space Marines.
There are about 1,000 SM chapters per the fluff. 3 have their own Codex and the "vanilla" Codex have 7 others.
The other 990 can still be played, but subbing out <Chapter Tactic> with the appropriate Chapter name. This is allowed in the Marine Codex

Are you actually reading the rule of 3 as saying that Marines can have 3,000 of the "same" datasheet just by replacing the <Chapter Tactic>?
Because that's ridiculous. The RIGHT answer is that datasheets are selected FIRST, then <keywords> can be swapped.
Rule of 3 prevents SELECTING the same datasheet more than 3 times.

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White Scars Terminators are not the same as Ultramarines Terminators, both in keywords and rules. They have different datasheets. By arguing they don't, that means I can use an Ultramarines Captain to buff White Scars.

Which page handles the Chapter Tactics rules? It's not the Datasheet. They're both following the same rules around regarding choosing another rule. So no bueno there.
They use the same rules for swapping the mutable <CHAPTER> Keyword, but start with the same Datasheet. So again, sorry, you're not a winner.
White Scars Terminators are not the same as Ultramarines Terminators, you're right, due to additional special rules... but they use the same Datasheet to allow us to play them.

Honestly, I'm beginning to run out of new ways to say "this Datasheet that is the same is the same Datasheet", a concept that somehow apparently needs an FAQ. I despair a little!

 JohnnyHell wrote:


Honestly, I'm beginning to run out of new ways to say "this Datasheet that is the same is the same Datasheet", a concept that somehow apparently needs an FAQ. I despair a little!

I think the problem is not that people aren't understanding you, it's that they disagree with you. "This Datasheet that is the same is the same Datasheet" does not equate to "This Datasheet that is different because the rules say to change the datasheet is not the same Datasheet."

 Octopoid wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


Honestly, I'm beginning to run out of new ways to say "this Datasheet that is the same is the same Datasheet", a concept that somehow apparently needs an FAQ. I despair a little!

I think the problem is not that people aren't understanding you, it's that they disagree with you. "This Datasheet that is the same is the same Datasheet" does not equate to "This Datasheet that is different because the rules say to change the datasheet is not the same Datasheet."

I get that, however I've also posted proof they are incorrect, which was ridiculed instead of addressed. It disproves their hot take. I've seen nothing in support of their position, and one of them is even incorrect about basics around the mutable Regiment/Craftworld/etc. Keywords. When you're arguing with two people and one is starting from incorrect rules and both are ignoring actual proof you can understand it's a touch tiresome.

If your position is "you can take infinite Leman Russes because they're not the same Datasheet" and GW's FAQ categorically says "you can take 3 x 3 Leman Russes max", it's kinda silly to stick to your guns.

I think this has gone around in circles for long enough. Time to move on.