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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
So what? I still like it better than the current writing. Which is what this thread is about, is it not? The quality of the prose, not whether it's "current".

I made no comment as to whether the novels are "correct" or not, after all.

Its better the current writing, but 1st Edition Rogue Trader is outdated, even though I love 1st Edition.

But yes. I think you are right.

Dude, we know you love Rogue Trader/1st Edition40k, whatever. You don’t have to remind us you get a lore-boner every time somebody brings either title up.

Believe it or not, this is the only thread you’ve built that is worthwhile; I say that because it sparks a legit discussion. Some of us like the way it was written, others dislike it. I for one approve of the way it was written, as it takes a noble warrior and he has to be assaulted on all fronts in order to succumb to evil, meanwhile others hate it and find it weakly done. But it’s a legit discussion. This might sound crazy, but the most detrimental poster in this thread...is YOU! You add nothing to your own thread, except telling us how much you love RT/40k 1st ed. We get it. We talk around you because the topic is worthwhile, but the topic creator’s posts are often pointless to the topic at hand. We aren’t your soundboard. We’re members of a discussion forum. We’ve told you a bunch of ways how you can interact and be a productive member, and you keep regurgitating the same garbage over and over. So thank you for becoming my replacement of Comedy Central.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Dude, we know you love Rogue Trader/1st Edition40k, whatever. You don’t have to remind us you get a lore-boner every time somebody brings either title up.

Believe it or not, this is the only thread you’ve built that is worthwhile; I say that because it sparks a legit discussion. Some of us like the way it was written, others dislike it. I for one approve of the way it was written, as it takes a noble warrior and he has to be assaulted on all fronts in order to succumb to evil, meanwhile others hate it and find it weakly done. But it’s a legit discussion. This might sound crazy, but the most detrimental poster in this thread...is YOU! You add nothing to your own thread, except telling us how much you love RT/40k 1st ed. We get it. We talk around you because the topic is worthwhile, but the topic creator’s posts are often pointless to the topic at hand. We aren’t your soundboard. We’re members of a discussion forum. We’ve told you a bunch of ways how you can interact and be a productive member, and you keep regurgitating the same garbage over and over. So thank you for becoming my replacement of Comedy Central.

I was not expressing love for 1st Edition lore, I was saying that 1st Edition Rogue Trader is outdated and should not be used.

Anyway, back the topic of this thread. Most of the Horus Heresy books are poorly written, and Horus' fall is no different.

Onething123456 wrote:
Anyway, back the topic of this thread. Most of the Horus Heresy books are poorly written, and Horus' fall is no different.

I firstly wholeheartedly agree with TimeToWaste - this might be a moment for you (OneThing) to see how a functioning discussion happens on forums and learn from it.

Secondly, saying "back to the topic" and then reiterating a point you - and others - have made several times during this thread is not bringing the discussion back on topic in a constructive way.

Yes. We know you think it is poorly written. As poorly written as Anakin. Saying it again, with no additional discussion or reasoning or rebuttals or evidence does not contribute to the discussion at all. Reading that post told me no additional information that your previous 10+ posts in this thread have.

Take a moment and learn from what TimeToWaste - and MANY others - have said to you. Really read his comment and think about what it means before you do your classic "Alright/ whatever/ bye I need to go to the bathroom" and pretend to be the one who wants to bring the discussion back to the topic. You don't care about getting back to the discussion, because you don't ever contribute to it - you're avoiding legitimate criticism on how you interact on this forum.

Take the time to read the advice people have given you, rather than copy/pasting entire chapters from HH books, which you claim are so poorly written.

 Jpogfreak886 wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
Anyway, back the topic of this thread. Most of the Horus Heresy books are poorly written, and Horus' fall is no different.

I firstly wholeheartedly agree with TimeToWaste - this might be a moment for you (OneThing) to see how a functioning discussion happens on forums and learn from it.

Secondly, saying "back to the topic" and then reiterating a point you - and others - have made several times during this thread is not bringing the discussion back on topic in a constructive way.

Yes. We know you think it is poorly written. As poorly written as Anakin. Saying it again, with no additional discussion or reasoning or rebuttals or evidence does not contribute to the discussion at all. Reading that post told me no additional information that your previous 10+ posts in this thread have.

Take a moment and learn from what TimeToWaste - and MANY others - have said to you. Really read his comment and think about what it means before you do your classic "Alright/ whatever/ bye I need to go to the bathroom" and pretend to be the one who wants to bring the discussion back to the topic. You don't care about getting back to the discussion, because you don't ever contribute to it - you're avoiding legitimate criticism on how you interact on this forum.

Take the time to read the advice people have given you, rather than copy/pasting entire chapters from HH books, which you claim are so poorly written.

That's mostly what I was doing. What I should.

They are poorly written for the most part. I hope you are not saying I am wrong.

This Reddit thread explains it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/44wlbq/spoilers_false_gods_horus_a_weak_bitch/

I have been on topic for this thread for the most part.

*deep breath*...Nobody is saying you’re wrong. By that same token, nobody is saying you’re right. Do you know why? Because stories, poems, hell, ALL WRITING is subjective. I’m telling you that as a guy who went to college to be an English teacher with a focus on literature. Writing is entirely subjective. If people like your work, then it is good TO THEM! If people hate it, then it sucks; again, TO THEM! Putting up an article from Reddit that nobody on here cares about doesn’t make it a fact that the HH was poorly written. Nor does my enjoyment of the HH make it a fact that it’s well written. It is entirely subjective, and based on opinion. That is the ONLY fact of the matter. I don’t know how any of us can get that through to you, since you only care about what you have to say, and nothing else. If you expect any respect on here, you truthfully need to understand that your opinion is not fact. Please just TRY to understand what I’m saying.

None of us are trying to ridicule you or tear you apart; we’re frustratingly trying to help you become a productive member of the community.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
*deep breath*...Nobody is saying you’re wrong. By that same token, nobody is saying you’re right. Do you know why? Because stories, poems, hell, ALL WRITING is subjective. I’m telling you that as a guy who went to college to be an English teacher with a focus on literature. Writing is entirely subjective. If people like your work, then it is good TO THEM! If people hate it, then it sucks; again, TO THEM! Putting up an article from Reddit that nobody on here cares about doesn’t make it a fact that the HH was poorly written. Nor does my enjoyment of the HH make it a fact that it’s well written. It is entirely subjective, and based on opinion. That is the ONLY fact of the matter. I don’t know how any of us can get that through to you, since you only care about what you have to say, and nothing else. If you expect any respect on here, you truthfully need to understand that your opinion is not fact. Please just TRY to understand what I’m saying.

None of us are trying to ridicule you or tear you apart; we’re frustratingly trying to help you become a productive member of the community.

Thank you for for that.

Onething123456 wrote:


That's mostly what I was doing. What I should.

They are poorly written for the most part. I hope you are not saying I am wrong.

This Reddit thread explains it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/44wlbq/spoilers_false_gods_horus_a_weak_bitch/

I have been on topic for this thread for the most part.

Two things. First, right and wrong are subjective. Writing is an art form, a creative endeavour. As such its value and quality is subjective. Sure, in some cases opinion may be overwhelmingly in one camp or another, and there are certainly elements of any artistic creation that can be analysed on an objective level, but ultimately whether something is well written or not is often undefinable. So you saying it was poorly written doesn't make it so, just as someone else saying it was well written also doesn't make it so.

So, if we extend that notion a little bit we come to the second point: the random musings of some random dude on Reddit are no more or less convincing than the opinions of anyone on this board, or any other on the internet. A thread doesn't gain some special status just because it's on Reddit. Throughout this entire thread you've consistently made simple statements of your own opinion as if they were absolute facts, while providing "evidence" from Reddit, one of the most famous hives of scum and villainy on the internet. We don't care what someone wrote on Reddit, or Facebook or anywhere else. We want to know what you actually think. That requires an explanation of why you think what you do. That explanation needs to be in your own words, not "somebody on Reddit said so". That's how a discussion works.

So... is the statement that "right and wrong are subjective" itself subjective, or it is some kind of meta-moral Truth?