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Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




I think people try to be constructive about the problems in a game. For example, regular marines are underwhelming now, and there are a bunch of threads about fixing them. And it's easy to believe GW made them this way on purpose, because they're trying to sell Primaris, so it's easy to be angry about it. Of course, none of these "constructive" comments are going to help in the end. GW is going to continue doing its thing. People are mostly going to stick with the official rules.

It's hard to decide where the line is, between a game I like with flaws or a game I actually don't like. I still like the models. I like the concept of WYSIWYG - seeing equipment on a model and having it mean something. I like rolling buckets of dice. I like IGOUGO. I like having lots of stuff on the table. I like playing a big game that lasts a few hours instead a few rounds of a smaller game.

I don't like rules that aren't represented on the table, such as the various detachment bonuses. I prefer simulation-style rules over gamey limits on things - if a Knight can adjust its shields a certain way to make them better, every knight should do that every turn regardless of how many guardsmen you brought along.

Do I have to think a game is perfect to be allowed to play it? Do I have to shut up about the negative part? I don't think I have enough posts to be the person anyone is complaining about, but I hope my answer helps with the OP's question. I can dislike half the rules and half the models and still like a game.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





What if you're over sensitivity of people's criticism is the issue? And not that they "moan" about it.

A recurring theme is that any and all negative comments about something on this site tend to be viewed as hostility. . In general even constructive criticism will ensure that person is harassed. More so if it challenges the approved narrative.

8th edition for a lot of people represents a dumbing down of the rules and massive changes. Shutting down that conversation because of peoples inability to handle constructive criticism,or vice versa is a common theme here on dakka.

Perhaps the issue is not them but human collectivism. Here's a great example of what I'm talking about.

Start a topic on 4th edition. See how positively people react to it. Than start a topic on 7th edition, see how negatively they react.

Compare both editions to 8th. I assure that there will be less hostility / negative criticism on the 4th post, and boat loads of moaning, complaining, etc on 7th post.

In the end we're just nerds that like to argue about plastic minis.

It all just seems hypocritical to me, and this coming from someone like most people, is guilty of being hypocritical.

It seems like a pretty weak sand castle to stand on. Given the place the post is (not 100% sure if that metaphor was used correctly).

It's also funny to see the negativity to 7th when similar all tho not the same issues pop up in 8th. Similar as in complaints about board game. People rag about older editions and moan about it, but than complain about people moaning over 8th.

It's almost like everyone is just being openly vocal about their preferences. Similar to music. I don't like Hip Hop. People will insult me for not liking hip hop, going as far to call me something derogatory. But than I will pop on some reggae or blues such as BB King when I'm home.

None of this behavior seems healthy to me to be so critical of criticism. "Don't worry so much you'l never make it of life alive" some random line from a movie.

In-fact after reading through the posts. I see a very troubling trend from the majority infantilism. A desperate need to police conversation that isn't approved so everything stays positive consistently, ensuring that no wrong think penetrates the community. Tho not indicative of all the posts on this thread, it does seem to be a fear of words. What's the worst that could possibly happen? Heated debate? Disagreement? Someone disrupting an echo chamber? This isn't even just a trend here. It's in almost every forum. No one wants to experience that which they don't agree with. I'm not sure if it's obsessive need to follow the group, or the rules. But it's a disturbing trend on social media as a whole.

Being comfortable with something that you don't agree with is actually a very critical life skill. But policing conversation to the point of never having to encounter what you disagree with is bordering on psychosis.

This trend did not used to exist about 6 to 10 years ago. People used to have back bone. Maybe it's the Irish in me. But I do remember people used to be less afraid of being independent. Now being independent is seen as a mortal sin.

Stabbing your neighbor in the back because they don't follow the collective seems Stalinist to me. This trend on line, honestly scares the living crap out of me. And should scare the living crap out of anyone that's studied history. This trend is a very dark road to go down, and it leads to some pretty messed up places, with a staggering body count attached to them.



This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2019/01/13 19:20:29


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





it's usually due the erroneous conflating of "I don't like game X" with "and everyone that plays it is a dunderhead"

I'm not particularly keen on 8th, but people are having fun playing it and its hard to do fun wrong and its not stopping me playing my games so Que Será

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I will sometimes complain about aspects of 40k despite not having played since 5th edtion. However, when I do complain it's never about the rules - to be honest I never played the game that much even when I did play, and I never took it very seriously. It was just a fun thing to play with friends, and it was less about X rule is bad and Y army is underpowered, and more about how "these rules are way too dense" as a whole. At the time it felt like playing an Excel Spreadsheet with most basic actions requiring you consult a table on one page and then plug in values to another table on some other page. This was something my group largely shared. If we had gotten more into it I assume we would have memorized some rules and values and it would have been less tedious, but on the whole it just felt like a slow-moving game wth needlessly complex rules that was still pretty fun, largely because the in-game universe was so engrossing.

Most of my beefs, when I have them, are with some specific aspect of any given model, and I do still assemble and paint the minis - because I do indeed still find the universe deeping interesting.

Other things I will be annoyed by is the model release schedule, or the bias I perceive towards model development for specific armies to the detriment of the ones I buy, build, and paint.

But I have no comment on the state of the game, which is a total unknown to me. I heard it had gotten better and I think I even bought the 8th edition rulebook, it's around here somewhere.

I've heard Kill Team is easy to play and fast moving, so that is another thing I think I might try picking up.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/13 19:21:10


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

Eh, no reason to gripe about an edition you don't like. Sure, you log your opinion on here once or twice, but anything past that is not doing anything except fracturing the community more than it already is. Not only that, but there may be that handful of people who want to try that older version of the game that you prefer, but they see you being a gak heel on here and they wouldn't give you the time of day. Worse yet, they could look at your attitude as indicative of ALL people who play that edition.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Just Tony wrote:
Eh, no reason to gripe about an edition you don't like. Sure, you log your opinion on here once or twice, but anything past that is not doing anything except fracturing the community more than it already is. Not only that, but there may be that handful of people who want to try that older version of the game that you prefer, but they see you being a gak heel on here and they wouldn't give you the time of day. Worse yet, they could look at your attitude as indicative of ALL people who play that edition.


see above. Case in point. Needless policing of disagreement. An individual is not responsible for issues other people have with their own emotional reaction to words. Especially with something as asinine as miniature games. This isn't even a major political or racial, or idealogical topic it's just plastic toys.

This is as I said a disturbing trend.

I don't even know where to begin with how Orwellian this sounds, or this thread as a whole.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/13 19:51:43


 
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

If your little diatribe was about what I posted, then you need to reread it.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




When are gamers finally going to seize the means of production of their plastic toys? I'm sick of being lorded over by these capitalists game designers forcing me to play whatever games are the most profitable.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





 Yodhrin wrote:
 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
For whatever it’s worth, I see far fewer people...


A lot of people see what they want to see.


I'd feel comfortable saying virtually every person, really. Negativity also tends to stand out, especially when it's repetitive and from the same person/people.

Also, agreed, the escalation to Orwellian dystopia is hilarious. Please continue.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/14 01:48:46


 
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





Oh wow... that escalated quickly
   
Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







The Allfather wrote:
Anyways you can't form a decent argument so just drop it. BUD.


Look out everybody, we got a badass over here! He's watched all the George Carlin videos on the YouTube! I'm sure Bill Hicks is coming right up, as soon as he finds another synonym for "bud" and researches some more Stalinist history to make snide and reductive allusions.

The supply does not get to make the demands. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Agamemnon2 wrote:
The Allfather wrote:
Anyways you can't form a decent argument so just drop it. BUD.


Look out everybody, we got a badass over here! He's watched all the George Carlin videos on the YouTube! I'm sure Bill Hicks is coming right up, as soon as he finds another synonym for "bud" and researches some more Stalinist history to make snide and reductive allusions.


Hicks is awesome man what are you smoking? And my argument is hardly crude. I'm just tired of seeing simpering ass wagons demanding people fall in line on every social media platform, less the herd be spooked.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/14 08:20:24


 
   
Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







I don't smoke. I've seen what it does to you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/14 08:23:01


The supply does not get to make the demands. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







After review this thread is now locked permanently.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/14 08:56:12


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
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