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 onlyroad wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
But a lot of the suggestions for fixes seem to go against what I have always perceived to be the fluff.

First off, hellions are wyches. Period. Succubus on skyboard? Absolutely appropriate, and MUST be added as an option. An archon on a skyboard? With custom written fluff in a narrative campaign, maybe. A haemonculus on a skyboard? No. Just no. even if it was technically possible in a previous dex, no.

One minor point on the Archon on a Skyboard. Baron Sathonyx is/was an Archon renowned for being a former Hellion. Granted, that's an edge case of a character that, to the best of my understanding, hasn't been mentioned for the greater part of nine years, but it supported by fluff in at least one case. Agreed on Haemonculus, it would be nice to have a relic that would give him some mobility but "speedy" isn't really an appropriate term for the Covens.

Not quite correct, Baron Sathonyx was a Dracon who was forced out of his Kabal by his Archon after bringing a captured Farseer into Commorragh, he then joined a Hellion gang and rose up to become the Lord Hellion. I agree with everyone about not giving Haemoculi mobility options but even if they had them I wouldn't take them myself, given that the fastest moving Coven unit goes 8" and the Haemonculus already goes 7" there's just no reason to ever use such options.

Regarding Beastmasters, you didn't need to take them in 7th or the index but it was silly not to, extremely low leadership meant without a Beastmaster in the unit a single casualty saw the unit run away last edition or lose potentially mutliple models this edition. And you had to take them in 5th, the Beast Pack rules allowed you to take X number of each type of beast per Beastmaster. The problem now is that you can only take 3 Beasts units per detachment and they don't take up slots which means we're back to the problem of pointless redundency, extra useless HQ's, Wyches you may not want or multiple Beastmasters you don't need.

 Imateria wrote:

 onlyroad wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
But a lot of the suggestions for fixes seem to go against what I have always perceived to be the fluff.

First off, hellions are wyches. Period. Succubus on skyboard? Absolutely appropriate, and MUST be added as an option. An archon on a skyboard? With custom written fluff in a narrative campaign, maybe. A haemonculus on a skyboard? No. Just no. even if it was technically possible in a previous dex, no.

One minor point on the Archon on a Skyboard. Baron Sathonyx is/was an Archon renowned for being a former Hellion. Granted, that's an edge case of a character that, to the best of my understanding, hasn't been mentioned for the greater part of nine years, but it supported by fluff in at least one case. Agreed on Haemonculus, it would be nice to have a relic that would give him some mobility but "speedy" isn't really an appropriate term for the Covens.

Not quite correct, Baron Sathonyx was a Dracon who was forced out of his Kabal by his Archon after bringing a captured Farseer into Commorragh, he then joined a Hellion gang and rose up to become the Lord Hellion. I agree with everyone about not giving Haemoculi mobility options but even if they had them I wouldn't take them myself, given that the fastest moving Coven unit goes 8" and the Haemonculus already goes 7" there's just no reason to ever use such options.

Regarding Beastmasters, you didn't need to take them in 7th or the index but it was silly not to, extremely low leadership meant without a Beastmaster in the unit a single casualty saw the unit run away last edition or lose potentially mutliple models this edition. And you had to take them in 5th, the Beast Pack rules allowed you to take X number of each type of beast per Beastmaster. The problem now is that you can only take 3 Beasts units per detachment and they don't take up slots which means we're back to the problem of pointless redundency, extra useless HQ's, Wyches you may not want or multiple Beastmasters you don't need.

My mistake, thanks for correcting me.

For beasts, yeah they got clobbered by the Codex. It's a shame, I really like the concept of them.

Haemonculi should definitely be able to take wings. The whole fluff behind scourges is that they have the money to go to haemonculi to have them surgically implanted. Why wouldn't they be able to do that for themselves?

Also, this is the Dark Eldar we're talking about here. If they have the money to do it, why wouldn't they take every advantage possible over their enemies?

No option should be left behind for any HQ.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Haemonculi should definitely be able to take wings. The whole fluff behind scourges is that they have the money to go to haemonculi to have them surgically implanted. Why wouldn't they be able to do that for themselves?

Also, this is the Dark Eldar we're talking about here. If they have the money to do it, why wouldn't they take every advantage possible over their enemies?

No option should be left behind for any HQ.

No, they would put a floating anti grav device on them like the Talos and Cronos.

I'd like at least *one* HQ to have the option for wings.

Maybe the Archon?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Haemonculi should definitely be able to take wings. The whole fluff behind scourges is that they have the money to go to haemonculi to have them surgically implanted. Why wouldn't they be able to do that for themselves?

Also, this is the Dark Eldar we're talking about here. If they have the money to do it, why wouldn't they take every advantage possible over their enemies?

No option should be left behind for any HQ.

No, they would put a floating anti grav device on them like the Talos and Cronos.

https://gfycat.com/aliveenchantedfoxterrier-baron-music


So your Heamonculs is the Baron Harkonnen?

Yes, i am making one of my Haemonculus into the Baron actually.

Thanks for all of the clarification on the fluff- especially the Incubi part. I do hope that DE get some kill team/ blackstone love. It's going to be a long time before I get to start a DE army, but when I do, I want to run it up from kill team so that it can grow organically.

Baron Harkonnen in a coven ? I like it. Yeah though, wings would be great to for an HQ option. What says, I'm rich , powerful and deserving of fear and respect like being able to fly ? Too good for that filthy ground.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Baron Harkonnen in a coven ? I like it. Yeah though, wings would be great to for an HQ option. What says, I'm rich , powerful and deserving of fear and respect like being able to fly ? Too good for that filthy ground.

Im still looking for the right model, one of the ones im looking at is the AOS nurgle characters, there is a nice fat ugly hero i like.

Looking at the new Ynarri stuff has given me some ideas. Ynarri DE can take mixed detachments without losing SfD and the Archon and Succubus auras now cross buff (so Archons can buff Wyches and Succubi can buff Kabal stuff). Yvraine also has a (melee only) doom now and there's a strat for +1 atttack and a strat for advance and charge if needed. I think that actually makes Reavers pretty good, and they can bow be taken in a battalion with Kabalites. Reavers with Adrenalight, the reroll wounds power on their target and the +1 attack strat are now hitting on 2s from T1 if you shot something to death (which you did, probably), rerolling 1s if a Succubus or Archon is nearby and have 48 attacks rerolling to wound at S4 AP -1. That's pretty deadly, particularly to something like Eldar flyers or big blobs of orks and doesn't stop you using Doom (from a craftworld Farseer) on another target to boost your shooting.

Depending on how you are using them you also have the potential of a 5++ (bike warlock for example) which really shores up their durability issue. For reavers I think that pile of bonuses is better than a double activation, they have strats to give their prior Wych cult abilities (+1 A/Advance and charge) as needed and still keep Power From Pain as well as not needing wyches as a tax.