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I'm not a huge fan of unique units outside of characters.

Victrix honour guard is one I can get behind, unique but not super powerful cause they're unique. They can also be recreated more or less too since they just have power swords and storm shields. That being said seeing a chapter master release with some honour guard is what I'd love to see from GW for Shrike or Lysander

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't even want DIY for Chaos, considering the stratagems that CSM have it is better TO NOT implement DIY there, (Purge trait +Slaanesh anyone?)

Or doctrines, it's imo high time that SM get something like that. I just doubt the balance of some of these, heavily.

What pisses me off is the blatant cashgrab that changed nothing for CSM that was the dex 2.0.
No additional units for the basic legions to diversify them from one another. (like seriously, you could've easily given AL saboteur squads, WB get crusaders,etc. NOT that difficult) yet GW couldn't even be bothered to propperly fix the traits?

This will also lead to a spread of more mini marine factions. Fine, but why do the nuns finally get a update that si still swamped with marines?
Why didn't Orkz get new and improved ladz?
Why the feth could i go in a bar and drink with the sculpts of aspect warriors?
And yet GW didn't even release a bunch of eliminators as a box.....





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Hasn't it been almost half a year since the chaos book? It was in March right?

5 months but with the fact that the traits were mirrored and that each book probably has 6 months in advance, atleast, do you think it would not have been possible or decent to do so?

claiming Chaos got no additional units in their new codex is... wrong, very very very wrong. and demanding unique units for each legion is... a bit of a strange request. outside of characters I can only think of one army that did that, and I don't think we should really count crusader squads, considering

Like what?
Lord discordant, MoP, venomcrawler and greater possesed.
That's it.
Add of these what was truly unique or new?
Lord discordant and the venomcrawler.
And reminds me, where do most of these come from?
Shadowspear?

 Peregrine wrote:
JFC the rules bloat is insane. 16 ing stratagems. More special army-wide rules. More special unit rules. Could someone at GW please stop masturbating over their favorite faction and learn how to write elegant rules?

But Peregrine, how can GW possibly demonstrate how special and awsome SMs are without giving them 200 unique rules?

And on top of that, how could they possibly demonstrate how extra-special and super-awsome Ultramarines are without giving them 200 extra unique rules?

There's just no other way.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Yeah, not a fan of all the extra rules. I could do with a couple and then let it lie, maybe just using some generic stratagems that all factions had access to.

The worst part is the salt in the wound this must be to the CSM players, having their recent update compared to this must leave a particularly foul taste in their mouth. Word Bearers players must be tearing their eyes out. I guess they really want life to imitate art and make CSM players feel bitter over the loyalists. The Long War for updates continues...

Maybe if we apologize for all the bad stuff they'll let us back in?

We did still get lots of excellent updates. CSM will be fine.

BrianDavion wrote:


claiming Chaos got no additional units in their new codex is... wrong, very very very wrong. and demanding unique units for each legion is... a bit of a strange request. outside of characters I can only think of one army that did that, and I don't think we should really count crusader squads, considering

I'm getting lost? Are we talking BT Crusaders, AM Crusaders, or some sort of Chaos unit called Crusaders? If we're talking about Loyalist unique units (Like BT Crusaders) and Chaos not getting them - I was distracted by the Plaguemarines, Rubric Marines Noise Marines, and Berzerkers. And Yes, Loyalists get more than Crusaders. Tyranic War Veterans, Honor Guard, Deathwing, Ravenwing, Death Company, Baal Preds and the like.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Yeah, not a fan of all the extra rules. I could do with a couple and then let it lie, maybe just using some generic stratagems that all factions had access to.

The worst part is the salt in the wound this must be to the CSM players, having their recent update compared to this must leave a particularly foul taste in their mouth. Word Bearers players must be tearing their eyes out. I guess they really want life to imitate art and make CSM players feel bitter over the loyalists. The Long War for updates continues...

Maybe if we apologize for all the bad stuff they'll let us back in?

We did still get lots of excellent updates. CSM will be fine.

Yeah but only if you aren't playing the stupid snowflake legions.....

Edit: Don't get me wrong, differentiating the legions is all fine and dandy, especially for the cult legions.
But i am personally annoyed that it is just cult legions and BL that get all the love, while the rest can basically sit idly by and turning thumbs.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of unique units outside of characters.

Victrix honour guard is one I can get behind, unique but not super powerful cause they're unique. They can also be recreated more or less too since they just have power swords and storm shields. That being said seeing a chapter master release with some honour guard is what I'd love to see from GW for Shrike or Lysander

Um when you say unique do you mean limit 1? The nice thing about Victrix is their wound intercepting is worded correctly. The downside is they're expensive for it. But not that bad. In fact, now I'm thinking about how much fun multiple detach'es of them could be.

Just popped into see if people are past denial stage and into acceptance... Nope. Looks like some are still in denial stage.

I think I'm going to model my Rocket Pod on my Redemptor now. It wasn't worth the points before as it was always moving and I found it to be way to many times where I was trying to roll 5+ to hit, but now I can reliably be at 2+ or 4+, Its getting put on.

Breton wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of unique units outside of characters.

Victrix honour guard is one I can get behind, unique but not super powerful cause they're unique. They can also be recreated more or less too since they just have power swords and storm shields. That being said seeing a chapter master release with some honour guard is what I'd love to see from GW for Shrike or Lysander

Um when you say unique do you mean limit 1? The nice thing about Victrix is their wound intercepting is worded correctly. The downside is they're expensive for it. But not that bad. In fact, now I'm thinking about how much fun multiple detach'es of them could be.

No I mean units like the librarian dreadnought. Not a huge stretch for other factions to have it but it's unique to BA. Victrix guard can be pretty much be created with company vets (I think they have the body guard rule) but I can't just make a librarian dread if I'm UM or white scars for instance.

And what do you mean Victrix guards rule is worded correctly?

As an Ultramarine Primaris player, looks like buffs all the way down for me. My army will just be better when I wake up next Saturday.

I already run 2x Victrix Honor Guard as a wound battery for Roboute. 64 points to keep him on the board longer is worth every point.

Intercessors and Aggressors are top notch scoot and shoot units with Scions of Guilliman and Bolter Discipline, w/ re-roll everything and Assault Doctrine. Oh and they can fallback and shoot, so have fun pinning them down.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Breton wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of unique units outside of characters.

Victrix honour guard is one I can get behind, unique but not super powerful cause they're unique. They can also be recreated more or less too since they just have power swords and storm shields. That being said seeing a chapter master release with some honour guard is what I'd love to see from GW for Shrike or Lysander

Um when you say unique do you mean limit 1? The nice thing about Victrix is their wound intercepting is worded correctly. The downside is they're expensive for it. But not that bad. In fact, now I'm thinking about how much fun multiple detach'es of them could be.

No I mean units like the librarian dreadnought. Not a huge stretch for other factions to have it but it's unique to BA. Victrix guard can be pretty much be created with company vets (I think they have the body guard rule) but I can't just make a librarian dread if I'm UM or white scars for instance.

And what do you mean Victrix guards rule is worded correctly?

Company Vets - depending on how literally your group plays, doesn't intercept all the wounds on the hit, even though it intercepts the hit because on Company Vets wound(s) isnt plural, but on Victrix Guard it is.

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Oh nice the new psychic power is like Mind War but better in every single way. Lovely.

Being cast by a better eldrad

2d6+2 is 9 which is same as most Ld on characters out there, so same 50/50 as Mind War, but Mind War takes character's own Ld into consideration and Eldar have way more rules to lower enemy Ld so I wouldn't say it's that much better. And then there's Cult Mind War which while nerfed a bit is still way more powerful.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Oh nice the new psychic power is like Mind War but better in every single way. Lovely.

Being cast by a better eldrad

2d6+2 is 9 which is same as most Ld on characters out there, so same 50/50 as Mind War, but Mind War takes character's own Ld into consideration and Eldar have way more rules to lower enemy Ld so I wouldn't say it's that much better. And then there's Cult Mind War which while nerfed a bit is still way more powerful.

He's an Ultramarine, he's Ld 10 when you take him right.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Oh nice the new psychic power is like Mind War but better in every single way. Lovely.

Being cast by a better eldrad

2d6+2 is 9 which is same as most Ld on characters out there, so same 50/50 as Mind War, but Mind War takes character's own Ld into consideration and Eldar have way more rules to lower enemy Ld so I wouldn't say it's that much better. And then there's Cult Mind War which while nerfed a bit is still way more powerful.

I meant more like he has a +1 to cast off the bat and doesnt tie your detatcjement into playing a crappy fnp. I dont know what cwe have to lower ld apart from shadow specters...

 Argive wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Oh nice the new psychic power is like Mind War but better in every single way. Lovely.

Being cast by a better eldrad

2d6+2 is 9 which is same as most Ld on characters out there, so same 50/50 as Mind War, but Mind War takes character's own Ld into consideration and Eldar have way more rules to lower enemy Ld so I wouldn't say it's that much better. And then there's Cult Mind War which while nerfed a bit is still way more powerful.

I meant more like he has a +1 to cast off the bat and doesnt tie your detatcjement into playing a crappy fnp. I dont know what cwe have to lower ld apart from shadow specters...

There's a Warlock power and the Hemlock but considering that you can use Tiggy to blow holes in any unit not just characters I don't really see how Mind War is comparable.

pm713 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Oh nice the new psychic power is like Mind War but better in every single way. Lovely.

Being cast by a better eldrad

2d6+2 is 9 which is same as most Ld on characters out there, so same 50/50 as Mind War, but Mind War takes character's own Ld into consideration and Eldar have way more rules to lower enemy Ld so I wouldn't say it's that much better. And then there's Cult Mind War which while nerfed a bit is still way more powerful.

I meant more like he has a +1 to cast off the bat and doesnt tie your detatcjement into playing a crappy fnp. I dont know what cwe have to lower ld apart from shadow specters...

There's a Warlock power and the Hemlock but considering that you can use Tiggy to blow holes in any unit not just characters I don't really see how Mind War is comparable.

Ohh yeah derp. I dont use them so forgot lol.

There are all the other eldar factions too, like Harlies.
I don't see why compare it to MW either though. IMO Executioner is a better power to throw around on moment to moment basis.

So Ultrarines have a relic melee weapon that can replace a combat blade. Why oh why could that have not been a generic relic? Now the Ultras are the only chapter which can have Reiver Lieutenants hat can actually fight... I'm sure many of the more close combat oriented chapters would have loved that.

So I see guillimans aura got nerfed to only rerolling wounds rolls of one. Probably for the best. At least he's only 350pts now.

 Shadenuat wrote:
There are all the other eldar factions too, like Harlies.
I don't see why compare it to MW either though. IMO Executioner is a better power to throw around on moment to moment basis.

Mind War is the power that compares to LD so that's the power that's now just a worse version of the smurf power.

 DoomMouse wrote:
So I see guillimans aura got nerfed to only rerolling wounds rolls of one. Probably for the best. At least he's only 350pts now.

As I think Xenos pointed out he's now mechanically redundant for the most part but I think Breton pointed out that Gulliman would be better for just spreading out reroll 1s to hit since his aura is still 12" I think he's most likely only good for apocalypse now

 fraser1191 wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
So I see guillimans aura got nerfed to only rerolling wounds rolls of one. Probably for the best. At least he's only 350pts now.

As I think Xenos pointed out he's now mechanically redundant for the most part but I think Breton pointed out that Gulliman would be better for just spreading out reroll 1s to hit since his aura is still 12" I think he's most likely only good for apocalypse now

Which is a good thing - Primarchs etc. shouldn't turn up to every skirmish...

 Crimson wrote:
So Ultrarines have a relic melee weapon that can replace a combat blade. Why oh why could that have not been a generic relic? Now the Ultras are the only chapter which can have Reiver Lieutenants hat can actually fight... I'm sure many of the more close combat oriented chapters would have loved that.

Might be best to just wait and see what others get.

Gulliman doesn't get his chapter tactics eaither assuming you take him in a super heavy auxillery.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
So I see guillimans aura got nerfed to only rerolling wounds rolls of one. Probably for the best. At least he's only 350pts now.

As I think Xenos pointed out he's now mechanically redundant for the most part but I think Breton pointed out that Gulliman would be better for just spreading out reroll 1s to hit since his aura is still 12" I think he's most likely only good for apocalypse now

Oh I'd disagree with that. He's still buffing 400-ish points of Aura. 2 Captains, a Chapter Master, and a Lieutenant, plus being a beast in CCW. The reasons I took Calgar+LT over Guillian weren't about his aura - Calgar+LT was cheaper, fit in a transport, and could be healed. IF GW pops it's head out of it's... well if they wise up and allow Apothecary's to heal Guilliman, I'd probably field him some of the time. As it is I probably still will field him some of the time as he's even cheaper.

My money is on the Seal of Oath being our best relic. The ability to let a cheap character essentially pick a Knight or something else for death and letting all units with 6" of that character reroll hits and wounds against it means it's going to die.

Guilliman was hit too hard. His aura can be replicated for cheaper, but the real issue is the fact that he's a LoW and not A HQ. It means you still need multiple other characters in the list, and suddenly you find yourself with an even smaller, more elite army that hasn't gained much offensive capabilities.

 The Forgemaster wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
So I see guillimans aura got nerfed to only rerolling wounds rolls of one. Probably for the best. At least he's only 350pts now.

As I think Xenos pointed out he's now mechanically redundant for the most part but I think Breton pointed out that Gulliman would be better for just spreading out reroll 1s to hit since his aura is still 12" I think he's most likely only good for apocalypse now

Which is a good thing - Primarchs etc. shouldn't turn up to every skirmish...

Yeah okay...we get it - you don't like gman. We are talking about competitive builds. People bring the best stuff. Like every imperial list having 3 blood angels captains or 3 custodian captains is any better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
Guilliman was hit too hard. His aura can be replicated for cheaper, but the real issue is the fact that he's a LoW and not A HQ. It means you still need multiple other characters in the list, and suddenly you find yourself with an even smaller, more elite army that hasn't gained much offensive capabilities.

Yep - he should have dropped to 300 points or gained a 12" reroll all hits aura for ultras. Instead. If you include him you basically have to play exacly as you did before but dont get nearly the benifit you did before - ergo - you shoudlnt take him. Unless you are running an gaurd and knights army - he got a lot better for doing that. I've actually won 3 torunaments doing exacty that. I'm happy with the buff.

 Ishagu wrote:
Guilliman was hit too hard. His aura can be replicated for cheaper, but the real issue is the fact that he's a LoW and not A HQ. It means you still need multiple other characters in the list, and suddenly you find yourself with an even smaller, more elite army that hasn't gained much offensive capabilities.

Repeating the same falsehood after it's been debunked doesn't make it true. A 12 inch Reroll1's, 6" reroll all hits, 6" reroll 1's to wound requires 3 Captains - one upgraded to a Chapter Master, and a Lieutenant to get close to, but still less than the area covered by the 12 inch aura Guilliman has. I know you play at the highest level of the highest tournaments, but the lowest level of the lowest geometry student can find the area of a circle on the internet by googling Area Calculator. 3 Base Captains and 1 Lieutenant plus a Chapter Master Strategem costs 291, -3 CP. If you make them base Primaris it's 320 -3CP. If you make at least one Cap Gravis or Phobos Primaris it goes up higher (This could also go down in the new Codex). Guilliman costs 350 and +3CP. And you're still behind on Aura size. And you haven't added the Charge/Advance component of the Aura which can't be done with points and IF it can be done will require a Strategem costing more CP - the far more costly part of your claim when you've already swung 6CP in an Army lucky to pull down 11.

The aura size really isn't as big a deal as you're making out Breton. Guilliman was primarily used as a parking lot anyway, and I have no issue keeping my Dark Angels gunline in 6" of Azrael and a lieutenant.