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Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




 Shadenuat wrote:
Now to the divinations:
why banshees? it would be more reasonable to do Spiders, Spears i.e oldest aspects. I can just guess, ie maybe because they're a more canonical, face of eldar aspects; or because they need better rules more.
Phoenix Lords? At that point I am not sure anymore. Can get models, can stay Finecast, can even go into Legends.
How many more? My guess every faction will get some, so it can be just Banshees, or maybe them and 1 more aspect or something.

But then trailer has a hint on Eldar in the very end, so there is hope for more.


I guess he banshee are not selling so much and they decided to fix that with new kit. It will be cool if they fix their rules a little.
I have wild speculations, that mainly females will awaken and become pshycers - sisters, banshees... and they will probably give Necron and Tao the psychic protection they need.

Weapon choices aren't just weapon choices for Aspects- it's right in the fluff. The limited choice of weapons is the aceticism and the aesthetic of the monastic order.

The weapon is a part of the "religion" or path or Aspect.

You can give the weapon better rules, or make it work better in Aspect Warrior's hands than the hands of any other Eldar. But changing them breaks both the aesthetic and the fluff that has existed for 4 decades.

That doesn't mean they won't do it (Primaris broke both), but I personally would prefer they did not.


Exarch have extra wound and more weapons because of the fluff, he/she is totally lost on that path and is wearing the special armor. For instance banshee could leave and become avenger or dark reapers.

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

If they don't make these dual-kits, lets cross our fingers in hopes that each box includes options to make the Phoenix Lord associated with that Aspect.
It would be unprecedented (to my knowledge), but for each box to include 4 regular aspects + 1 Exarch/PL would be great stuff.

-

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






There is not a chance in hell they include a Phoenix Lord with those kits. If they get new "upgraded" rules, each Phoenix Lord would become a $45-50 single sprue plastic kit...that's waaaaay too much money for GW to pass up on.

I'd imagine the kit will be a single aspect (which is fine, I would only accept dual kits if absolutely necessary), 10 models (or 8-9 just to piss people off), and $55-60 a box.

 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

feth dual kits, I want every aspect have completely unique look and their own JoJo poses.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Dual kits were a sacrifice Eldar players were willing to make when we were just brainstorming how we could possibly get plastic Aspect Warriors...it's absolutely not the preferred method (other than Galef). Dual kits would involve a number of design sacrifices. Also, GW isn't particularly keen on loads of spare bits/sprues with new/modern kits. I do expect a weapon option or two for the aspects (Fire Dragons may have a flamer as an option to the meltagun, etc.) - and I'd imagine a couple weapon options for the Exarchs, but yeah dual kits are extremely unlikely.

 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

Flamers would be awesome but also would kinda make other aspects like Banshees who are ok at killing infantry in cover redundant. Since against infantry you could take Fire Dragons, and against vehicles... also Fire Dragons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/29 17:36:33


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Oh I agree, it's not something I'm personally interested in - I just think it'll happen.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Can't wait to see more Aspects in plastics. It will be hard not to buy them. I don't even play Eldar.

Man, If GW redid the Phoenix Lords, there's a ton of potential for some gorgeous models.

Though I hope they don't super-size them like they did with Abaddon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 17:50:37


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Phoenix Lords are, sadly, worse than even normal Aspect Warriors at this point (a couple are "okay"). Toughness 4 models with 2+ armour and no-invulnerable simply don't last on the tabletop, particularly when so many are armed for close combat and can no longer hide with the proliferation of anti-character units/snipers/missiles/rules flooding the game.

They are shockingly iconic models/characters though and would have potential to be superb looking.

PS: oh you can bet your ass they'll be supersized, lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 17:51:19


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






The Ynnead ones aren't bigger than the normal Eldar that I can tell, so there's hope.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






What's your bet on the size of a new proper Avatar?

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Elbows wrote:
What's your bet on the size of a new proper Avatar?

If/when we ever see one? About 60% of the way between the current one and the FW one.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






The FW Avatar was too big, imo.

However, the original Avatar matched the size of the Greater Daemons because it's an Eldar Greater Daemon. . . So, in light of that, I'd say it would be at a stature comparable with the GD plastics. Which means pretty much the size of the FW one, iirc.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

It depends on the rules. For current rules, that little dwarf with 5 attacks is quite fitting actually. The FW Avatar, for a non-targetable buffer unit is too big.

So yeah, better proportions and slightly taller would be just fine. The way current GW plays it though, we might just see some 270 pts plastic chunk monstrosity for more of those sweet $$$.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 18:13:13


 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

I’m pretty sure it will be 5 models for $60, with options to make one model an exarch.

The last dual kit I remember was the Tau fire warriors/breachers. I don’t expect we’ll see dual kits for aspects, which is a shame.

It also suspect we’ll only see one clampacked Phoenix Lord, and I suspect it will be Jain Zar, as she’s the only one that I’m aware of that has been mentioned in a long while (Dawn of War III, at that).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dysartes wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
What's your bet on the size of a new proper Avatar?

If/when we ever see one? About 60% of the way between the current one and the FW one.


Honestly, I thought the Ynarri Visarch was GW’s attempt to fix/reissue the Avatar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 18:19:03


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






The current Avatar is limited because it never did get a larger model (we're not counting the "meh" FW one). It used to be on par with Greater Daemons and rightfully so. They got bigger models, the Avatar didn't. Character targeting rules made this into a bit of a boon, but yeah if they give it a bigger model its stat line will have to change.

 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 fraser1191 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah the new Shrike has a useless pretty boy vibe. If I wanted that, I'd be a fan of Blood Angels.

Luckily I still have a useable Shrike stand-in. I'm just gonna glue a pistol to the base before I get the thing painted.



chances are if he's not got a option to put his helmet on him, then it'll be an easy mod to make


If his helmet can go on normally then I'll probably pick him up


GW's been pretty good about putting helmet or no helmet opions on their marine chars of late

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

I'm completely over the moon to see this. A new plastic kit that keeps the aesthetic that Jes Goodwin perfected with his 4th edition concepts. It looks exactly how a Howling Banshee should look, although I very much also have a soft spot for the 3rd edition version and have 20 of them. It's not a Ynnari-style reimagining like I feared. It's not a slow fade into obscurity without ever getting a new kit, like I also feared. This is pretty much exactly what I wanted.

I don't need more Banshees, but I'll be buying some. Because how can I resist? And also I'd love these to sell well to send a message that there's a market for updated Aspects. I'll get at least a squad of 10. If there's alternative loadouts, maybe I'll get more than that.

Re: Alternative Weapons
I feel fairly sure that GW will include alternative weapons for the squad, for these and also for the other aspects. It gives players a reason to buy more squads, and gives the diehard Swordwind collectors like myself more of a reason to buy the new models rather than just sticking with our old ones. Like I said above, if there's more loadouts, I'll buy more models. I'm fond of the traditional weapon loadouts, but as has been said in the thread already each aspect is more about a method of waging war than it is about the specific weapons that they use.

I hope that if they do introduce alternative weapons, they stick with the current pattern - you make one weapon choice for all of the models in the squad and have the option to give something special to the Exarch. To me in many ways that's more integral to the Eldar style than the exact weapons themselves. I also hope that the traditional Exarch weapons stay exclusive to the Exarchs. While it would certainly boost the aspects if every model could take the Exarch weapons, I'd rather boost them by improving the power swords, fusion guns, lasblasters etc. and keeping Executioners, Firepikes, Hawk's Talons etc. in the hands of the Exarchs. It just makes the Exarchs that much cooler that they get access to this gear that nobody else can use. And if they want to power up, say the fusion guns, well, they can power up the firepike even more and make the Exarch suitably awesome.

Re:Single or Dual Kits
I'm pretty certain these aren't a dual kit. For one thing, there's a Howling Banshee rune sculpted on the right thigh. To me the ideal situation is single kits, so long as we get all of the aspects. I feel that dual kits was only ever a compromise idea because most of us thought that doing a plastic kit for each type of aspect was an unlikely number of separate kits. Although there are pairings that could work as dual kits (and have been discussed to death), I don't like that there would have to be some compromises made (however small) on the armour design to make that happen. They'd also probably use the fact that there was more stuff on the sprues to jack up the price. And while it would be possible to kitbash the spare parts onto guardians, it's not something I would do because it would always feel like a compromise to me, and even a good kitbash job wouldn't be nearly as good as the proper aspect warriors. Where aspect warriors are involved, no compromises!

Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Nithaniel wrote:
Could this herald a new Craftworlds codex 8.5?

Nah. It'll probably be their own spin-off codex.

That's usually how they do it when the update dated elite choices from a book into a new range (e.g. Plague Marines, Harlequins, Rubric Marines, etc..).

Those units were always ripe for expansion out into something separate from the Codexes that originally hosted them, but Aspect Warriors are at the core of what Craftworlds are. To use the Eldar example there - Harlequins are an entirely separate group that often visit the Craftworlds and might fight alongside them from time to time. Back in the day it made sense to stick them in the Craftworlds Codex, but they always felt like something a bit different and it made sense that they got their own Codex. Ripping Aspect Warriors out of the Craftworlds Codex and putting them into their own book makes no thematic sense whatsoever.

 Elbows wrote:
The current Avatar is limited because it never did get a larger model (we're not counting the "meh" FW one). It used to be on par with Greater Daemons and rightfully so. They got bigger models, the Avatar didn't. Character targeting rules made this into a bit of a boon, but yeah if they give it a bigger model its stat line will have to change.

You wash your mouth out with soap! The FW Avatar with sword is one of the finest models they've ever done! It's absolutely the centrepiece of my collection.

 Argive wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
I don't know, they still look ugly to me. Guess it's just the Craftworlds design that doesn't suit my tastes with so many... curves.

If you prefer things more flat there are always new SoB.

Ah nice one

No I think it's just the soulstones everywhere making them look like they have the bubonic plague, and the shape of all shuriken weapons looks ridiculous to me.


To be fair its a pretty ridiculous weapon. It catapults shurikens…
I think the stones are interesting. But some models just have soo many its a nightmare to paint. Theres one Guardian back piece that is literly covered in stones and is ridiculous.

Man It feels nice to have something to look forward to from GW.

Not every 'lump' on an Eldar model is a gemstone. I think it was our overlord Jes himself that said only the ones which have an obvious setting (a rim around them) are actually supposed to be stones. The rest are just part of the eldar armour/technology design - little sensor pods and other similar stuff. I'm surprised at the folks who paint every little bump like it's a gemstone, because even if they do them well I think the overall effect of a model covered in so many gemstones looks pretty pants. They look much better painted the same colour as the rest of the model.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






BrianDavion wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah the new Shrike has a useless pretty boy vibe. If I wanted that, I'd be a fan of Blood Angels.

Luckily I still have a useable Shrike stand-in. I'm just gonna glue a pistol to the base before I get the thing painted.



chances are if he's not got a option to put his helmet on him, then it'll be an easy mod to make


If his helmet can go on normally then I'll probably pick him up


GW's been pretty good about putting helmet or no helmet opions on their marine chars of late


Did Khan have a helmet? Tigurius doesn't have one because space magic (at least I'm better at painting faces now). So I don't have a lot of faith in this guy having a helmet or body guards either for that matter. Granted they say he's the first ever beaky, I don't know if that means we'll see future beakys or not. I really want to see body guards for this guy though, plus he's a chapter master unlike the khan. I just like seeing new models in general lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 21:55:05


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Bellerophon wrote:
Spoiler:
 Argive wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
I don't know, they still look ugly to me. Guess it's just the Craftworlds design that doesn't suit my tastes with so many... curves.

If you prefer things more flat there are always new SoB.

Ah nice one

No I think it's just the soulstones everywhere making them look like they have the bubonic plague, and the shape of all shuriken weapons looks ridiculous to me.


To be fair its a pretty ridiculous weapon. It catapults shurikens…
I think the stones are interesting. But some models just have soo many its a nightmare to paint. Theres one Guardian back piece that is literly covered in stones and is ridiculous.

Man It feels nice to have something to look forward to from GW.

Not every 'lump' on an Eldar model is a gemstone. I think it was our overlord Jes himself that said only the ones which have an obvious setting (a rim around them) are actually supposed to be stones. The rest are just part of the eldar armour/technology design - little sensor pods and other similar stuff. I'm surprised at the folks who paint every little bump like it's a gemstone, because even if they do them well I think the overall effect of a model covered in so many gemstones looks pretty pants. They look much better painted the same colour as the rest of the model.

That's interesting to hear, Bellerophon - do you know when he said that?

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Spoiler:
 Bellerophon wrote:
I'm completely over the moon to see this. A new plastic kit that keeps the aesthetic that Jes Goodwin perfected with his 4th edition concepts. It looks exactly how a Howling Banshee should look, although I very much also have a soft spot for the 3rd edition version and have 20 of them. It's not a Ynnari-style reimagining like I feared. It's not a slow fade into obscurity without ever getting a new kit, like I also feared. This is pretty much exactly what I wanted.

I don't need more Banshees, but I'll be buying some. Because how can I resist? And also I'd love these to sell well to send a message that there's a market for updated Aspects. I'll get at least a squad of 10. If there's alternative loadouts, maybe I'll get more than that.

Re: Alternative Weapons
I feel fairly sure that GW will include alternative weapons for the squad, for these and also for the other aspects. It gives players a reason to buy more squads, and gives the diehard Swordwind collectors like myself more of a reason to buy the new models rather than just sticking with our old ones. Like I said above, if there's more loadouts, I'll buy more models. I'm fond of the traditional weapon loadouts, but as has been said in the thread already each aspect is more about a method of waging war than it is about the specific weapons that they use.

I hope that if they do introduce alternative weapons, they stick with the current pattern - you make one weapon choice for all of the models in the squad and have the option to give something special to the Exarch. To me in many ways that's more integral to the Eldar style than the exact weapons themselves. I also hope that the traditional Exarch weapons stay exclusive to the Exarchs. While it would certainly boost the aspects if every model could take the Exarch weapons, I'd rather boost them by improving the power swords, fusion guns, lasblasters etc. and keeping Executioners, Firepikes, Hawk's Talons etc. in the hands of the Exarchs. It just makes the Exarchs that much cooler that they get access to this gear that nobody else can use. And if they want to power up, say the fusion guns, well, they can power up the firepike even more and make the Exarch suitably awesome.

Re:Single or Dual Kits
I'm pretty certain these aren't a dual kit. For one thing, there's a Howling Banshee rune sculpted on the right thigh. To me the ideal situation is single kits, so long as we get all of the aspects. I feel that dual kits was only ever a compromise idea because most of us thought that doing a plastic kit for each type of aspect was an unlikely number of separate kits. Although there are pairings that could work as dual kits (and have been discussed to death), I don't like that there would have to be some compromises made (however small) on the armour design to make that happen. They'd also probably use the fact that there was more stuff on the sprues to jack up the price. And while it would be possible to kitbash the spare parts onto guardians, it's not something I would do because it would always feel like a compromise to me, and even a good kitbash job wouldn't be nearly as good as the proper aspect warriors. Where aspect warriors are involved, no compromises!

Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Nithaniel wrote:
Could this herald a new Craftworlds codex 8.5?

Nah. It'll probably be their own spin-off codex.

That's usually how they do it when the update dated elite choices from a book into a new range (e.g. Plague Marines, Harlequins, Rubric Marines, etc..).

Those units were always ripe for expansion out into something separate from the Codexes that originally hosted them, but Aspect Warriors are at the core of what Craftworlds are. To use the Eldar example there - Harlequins are an entirely separate group that often visit the Craftworlds and might fight alongside them from time to time. Back in the day it made sense to stick them in the Craftworlds Codex, but they always felt like something a bit different and it made sense that they got their own Codex. Ripping Aspect Warriors out of the Craftworlds Codex and putting them into their own book makes no thematic sense whatsoever.

 Elbows wrote:
The current Avatar is limited because it never did get a larger model (we're not counting the "meh" FW one). It used to be on par with Greater Daemons and rightfully so. They got bigger models, the Avatar didn't. Character targeting rules made this into a bit of a boon, but yeah if they give it a bigger model its stat line will have to change.

You wash your mouth out with soap! The FW Avatar with sword is one of the finest models they've ever done! It's absolutely the centrepiece of my collection.

 Argive wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
I don't know, they still look ugly to me. Guess it's just the Craftworlds design that doesn't suit my tastes with so many... curves.

If you prefer things more flat there are always new SoB.

Ah nice one

No I think it's just the soulstones everywhere making them look like they have the bubonic plague, and the shape of all shuriken weapons looks ridiculous to me.


To be fair its a pretty ridiculous weapon. It catapults shurikens…
I think the stones are interesting. But some models just have soo many its a nightmare to paint. Theres one Guardian back piece that is literly covered in stones and is ridiculous.

Man It feels nice to have something to look forward to from GW.

Not every 'lump' on an Eldar model is a gemstone. I think it was our overlord Jes himself that said only the ones which have an obvious setting (a rim around them) are actually supposed to be stones. The rest are just part of the eldar armour/technology design - little sensor pods and other similar stuff. I'm surprised at the folks who paint every little bump like it's a gemstone, because even if they do them well I think the overall effect of a model covered in so many gemstones looks pretty pants. They look much better painted the same colour as the rest of the model.


Fair point. If you look at the DOW 3 models everything seems to be gems so maybe that's where this idea came from?
I agree with you that you have to pick your battles with the gems! lol

All in all It seems most people are in agreement,and this hit the spot just right. They didint mess with the aesthetic of the unit, or the identity of it. It looks like CWE are getting the CSM treatement rather than the Primaris treatement (which would likely mean ynarrification for us..) and I am glad for it. I get some people were clamoring for "Bigger, badder, more ynarri and unique" but for me, if it ain't broke, dont fix it! And the current banshees weren't broken, they were garbage fine cast. For any relative new comers with incomplete Eldar armies this is very good.

Re: the pricing I think people should epxpect squad of 5 for a bit more than the DAs. The DA kit went from 10 models to 5 models and price stayed the same so they know what they can get away with. I don't think its realistic to expect 10 man squads (because if you can field a min of 5.. why would GW sell you more than 5?).

But to be honest this is a bit of a non-issue for me. As someone who does not have an old collection filled with previous gen banshees, I'm really thrilled to finally have something to look forward to with my army, and quite frankly, they can take their sweet time doing it as long as they do it and let us know they are doing it. Maybe its a sign of things to come, and a change to their philosophy.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






It's long been a facet of Eldar design, dating back to the original WD articles, etc. I think there are scribbled notes in Jes Goodwin's limited Eldar books as well. In short, yes, a bunch of the raised portions on Eldar armour are sensors, small storage compartments, or components of the armour, etc.

A normal Eldar warrior only has one 'soul stone', the rest which are painted as gems are simply control gems...or...buttons basically.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 22:04:53


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

 Dysartes wrote:
 Bellerophon wrote:
Spoiler:
 Argive wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
I don't know, they still look ugly to me. Guess it's just the Craftworlds design that doesn't suit my tastes with so many... curves.

If you prefer things more flat there are always new SoB.

Ah nice one

No I think it's just the soulstones everywhere making them look like they have the bubonic plague, and the shape of all shuriken weapons looks ridiculous to me.


To be fair its a pretty ridiculous weapon. It catapults shurikens…
I think the stones are interesting. But some models just have soo many its a nightmare to paint. Theres one Guardian back piece that is literly covered in stones and is ridiculous.

Man It feels nice to have something to look forward to from GW.

Not every 'lump' on an Eldar model is a gemstone. I think it was our overlord Jes himself that said only the ones which have an obvious setting (a rim around them) are actually supposed to be stones. The rest are just part of the eldar armour/technology design - little sensor pods and other similar stuff. I'm surprised at the folks who paint every little bump like it's a gemstone, because even if they do them well I think the overall effect of a model covered in so many gemstones looks pretty pants. They look much better painted the same colour as the rest of the model.

That's interesting to hear, Bellerophon - do you know when he said that?

I could remember seeing it somewhere, tried to find it again a couple of times and for the life of me couldn't quite remember where I saw it.. but today I found it again!

Warhammer Community Link

Specifically, this bit:

The gemstones on Eldar models have become an integral part of the look of the race, tied to the Fall, the birth of Slaanesh and how they cheat death.

Not all the bumps and lumps on Eldar technology is, in fact, a gemstone though. Some are simply blisters of electronics and hardware, as Jes Goodwin explains: “Every blip on an Eldar model doesn’t have to be painted like a gem – they’re not all gems. If it’s got a setting around it, it’s a gem. If it’s hasn’t, it’s a blip.” But painters who adore a challenge fret not, “It’s not a hard and fast rule.”

The studio clearly agrees with that position - see the models in the Codex and on the webstore - the 'Eavy Metal paintjobs on just about every model paint most of the bumps the same colour as the rest of the armour, and only do the ones in a setting as gems. There's one or two exceptions, like a couple of blips on the Wraithlord that they paint as gems, but mostly they stick to the blips being painted the same as the armour.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






100% delighted about this. Going to be digging out my old Guardians to get these added to.
   
Made in gb
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos





 Elbows wrote:
Phoenix Lords are, sadly, worse than even normal Aspect Warriors at this point (a couple are "okay"). Toughness 4 models with 2+ armour and no-invulnerable simply don't last on the tabletop, particularly when so many are armed for close combat and can no longer hide with the proliferation of anti-character units/snipers/missiles/rules flooding the game.

They are shockingly iconic models/characters though and would have potential to be superb looking.

PS: oh you can bet your ass they'll be supersized, lol.

They need to be T5 again, or even T6.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Daba wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Phoenix Lords are, sadly, worse than even normal Aspect Warriors at this point (a couple are "okay"). Toughness 4 models with 2+ armour and no-invulnerable simply don't last on the tabletop, particularly when so many are armed for close combat and can no longer hide with the proliferation of anti-character units/snipers/missiles/rules flooding the game.

They are shockingly iconic models/characters though and would have potential to be superb looking.

PS: oh you can bet your ass they'll be supersized, lol.

They need to be T5 again, or even T6.


That was back in 2nd, before the statlines got flattened by 3rd. Most marine characters were also T5 back then as well. I’d like to see them be more survivable, but a T boost is the wrong way to do it IMHO.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in gb
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos





True enough, but I think for what they are (basically living armour) T5 or 6 isn't off the mark considering Primarchs are similar and by background they really take the position as Eldar Primarchs.

Exarch fluff has been diluted so we don't know what they are anymore, but the original, real fluff for an Exarch would fit the current Phoenix Lord statline.

 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Yeah. The Exarchs and Phoenix Lords should be much more powerful that they currently are. I loved how in the 2nd edition they truly felt like mythic heroes.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

And in other editions they sucked even if they had "mythic" stats.

In this edition at least they are cheap enough you can field them for less that 200 pts. Cheap specialized HQs with cool rules are easier to balance and easier to run in the army, because even if they're kinda underwhelming, they don't take that many points away.
In the Craftworlds army, whenever you take an HQ, you always compare it to Farseer; if it's more expensive than a Farseer, it should do something very different, otherwise you're better with another Farseer, cheap Autarch or warlock/spiritseer.

And 2+ save isn't even that bad imo.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/31 18:56:14


 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Shadenuat wrote:

In this edition at least they are cheap enough you can field them for less that 200 pts. Cheap specialized HQs with cool rules are easier to balance and easier to run in the army, because even if they're kinda underwhelming, they don't take that many points away.

I really don't care. I want the Phoenix Lords to be utterly terrifying primarch-level mythic heroes, and if that means that they need to be Lords of War and cost over three hundred points, so be it!

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
 
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