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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion 779789 10559914 wrote:

Just because you think the lore is "total garbage" does not make that "the literal truth" so quit trying to pass off your opinions as fact.

when primaris came out people took the 1 paragraph of text we got for them and screamed it was abd lore. others held off until we got more info. and TBH... in the 2 years GW's had to develop the lore? I actually LIKE what I've seen. there's room for improvement but it's not the flaming dumpster fire the reactionary hate brigade makes them out to be

Are there any good primaris books to read, only one I read was spears of the emperor and was horrible?
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 jeff white wrote:
If Sly Marbo was Sylvester Stallone's Rambo,
the new Shrike is Jared Leto's Punisher.

Wait, there is another Rambo? And what's that Jared Leto's Punisher???

Feminism is good. Racism is bad.
Sabbat-pattern helmets best helmets.
If you believe that marines aren't powerful enough on the tabletop to match the fluff, remember that Custodes got rules but Planetary Defense Force don't. 
   
Made in gb
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard




Nottingham

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Where have you been? Most people have hated on the Primaris model lines since they were first created. It was a 2W model with meh shooting and zero melee ability.
And that's still largely unchanged on the standard profile. The only changes have really been that the auto and stalker bolt rifles got a bit of a buff and the Sergeants can take thunder hammers and power fists. They're still not drastically changed from their first incarnation, which wasn't even too different from the standard Space Marine (in fact, they had more melee ability, due to the extra attack).
Jump cut to 1-2 years later, and now there are all new "rules" for the primaris
Why the quotation marks? They got new units, and those unit got new rules.

the literal truth that their lore is complete garbage
Incorrect. That's not a "literal truth" by any stretch of the imagination. There's nothing wrong with owning up to hating Primaris because of your own biases and preferences, but don't try and pretend it's a "literal truth".
NO one loved the lore these idiots came from. No one. Oh, Cawl was hiding over 100k soldiers in a bunker, while TERRA was being attacked? K. No, wait, QUE?
Again, demonstrably false.
If you want to make a compelling argument about something and expect people to take it seriously, try to avoid hyperbole and just flat out lying.

These are MODERN or Post Modern even level sci-fi marines, while the entire rest of the lore universe is using fossil fuel vehicles, batteries, and pure chaos. They just don't belong. They stick out like sore thumbs, and it's obvious.
They really don't. If you've actually read any of the lore about the Primaris in recent books, you'll be happy to note that they fit in just fine with the setting. They're no more broken than anything else that's come before.

Karol wrote:Are there any good primaris books to read, only one I read was spears of the emperor and was horrible?
Spears was pretty good, imo. Aside from that, I can recommend Knights of Macragge (the Primaris plot isn't the main focus of it, but it does tackle the division between the First-Born and Primaris, and it especially good in the second half of the book), or Apocalypse.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
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DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Khornate25 wrote:
I hate and wouldn't want to be another one of ''those guys''


Well I suppose. I wouldn't want to be one of those guys either!

 Khornate25 wrote:
I am not here to argue about your tastes.


Oh thank goodness. I tire of the complaints of updates to the setting that I enjoy.

 Khornate25 wrote:
Bt this clearly told me that it was the end. There is nothing remotely W40k about this model in my eyes. It's just some emo dude wearing a vanilla powered suit that could have been seen in an Avengers movie.


Okay. . . I mean like a hundred people already cried about that model in its own thread so you made a new one?

 Khornate25 wrote:
Since GW clearly wants to make pre-8ed marines and the overall grimdark fade in the background,


Hmm that's yet to be determined. They even gave lots of updates rules to old marines in the newest codex. I don't doubt that Primaris is the way forward from here, but I suspect sometime down the road we'll get some more gothic looking veteran or dark angels units that have all kinds of bits and bobs and stuff for those who refuse to add them themselves.

 Khornate25 wrote:
I sincerely think about just scrapping it all up. I might wait to see how the sisters of battle will be (since they seem to still fit the old vibe), but besides that, w40k seriously dropped in my list of favorite game (setting-wise).


That's a shame. But I have to ask: are you actually reading any of the recent fluff? I can assure you the setting is as grim and dark as ever. Or is it just the look of primaris space marines that bugs you? They're still releasing lots of other stuff that's plenty grimdark like chaos marines, death guard, knights, chaos knights, Mechanicum and of course the upcoming sisters of battle you mentioned.

 Khornate25 wrote:
What's your take on the subject ?


I honestly doubt you care beyond venting your frustrations on the internet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 22:59:36


 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Karol wrote:

Are there any good primaris books to read, only one I read was spears of the emperor and was horrible?

Unlikely. Space Marines make terrible protagonists for a novel, and making them Primaris does not make them any more interesting.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sgt_Smudge wrote:


Spears was pretty good, imo. Aside from that, I can recommend Knights of Macragge (the Primaris plot isn't the main focus of it, but it does tackle the division between the First-Born and Primaris, and it especially good in the second half of the book), or Apocalypse.


I will look around for those two, thank you . Although it is kind of a scary if Spears is a good book.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






If you want actually good books tie-in novels for toy soldiers might be the wrong category to begin with...

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
Karol wrote:

Are there any good primaris books to read, only one I read was spears of the emperor and was horrible?

Unlikely. Space Marines make terrible protagonists for a novel, and making them Primaris does not make them any more interesting.

I didn't read many books from GW, but I did read two that were about space marines. One was about space wolfs, don't remember the name of it though, and the other was about a Night Lord raptor. Both were okey in their own way. Spears was strange to read to be honest, some parts of it I didn't understand at all. And I don't mean a languge barrier.
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Good books set post Gathering Storm:

Dark Imperium
Dark Imperium 2: Plague War
Devastation of Baal
Spears of the Emperor
Knights of Macragge

People who think the Primaris are bad lore haven't read many or any of the BL books that involve them. Many of them are excellent, and Primaris add an extra layer of drama in regards to the place the classic Astartes have.
Some of the best 40k fiction has been written in the post gathering storm setting.

Dark Imperium 1,2 and Devastation of Ball are essential lore for the current 40k setting. If you've not read them you can't comment on what is or isn't good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 00:04:46


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






No. The essential lore should be in the rulebooks and codices. Tie-in fiction is purely optional.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Ishagu wrote:
Dark Imperium 1,2 and Devastation of Ball are essential lore for the current 40k setting. If you've not read them you can't comment on what is or isn't good.
Silly.

Feminism is good. Racism is bad.
Sabbat-pattern helmets best helmets.
If you believe that marines aren't powerful enough on the tabletop to match the fluff, remember that Custodes got rules but Planetary Defense Force don't. 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

There is nothing offensive about the lore in the new Astartes Codex.

So what exactly is your complaint again?

Sounds like some people don't know what they're talking about. If you're limiting yourself to the brief outlines of plot points in a codex or rulebook then clearly you don't care much for the lore in the first place, and thus have no ground to stand on and complain.

"Oh the lore is so crap. I don't actually care enough to look into it but I'll complain about things I don't understand" - typical complainer

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/09/04 00:40:55


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dark Imperium was ok but suffered heavily from the shoe horned drama that Primaris marines represent. You could have told the exact same story without marines 2.0 (the money grab) and had the essentially the same tale.

Devastion of Baal was boring to me and felt like a retread of lets wipe out a founding chapter to next to nothing, something that has happened to the blood angels multiple times over the years.

Also can you please stop saying that anyone who doesn't like Primaris haven't read up on them. Many of us have and dislike that they, along with some of Cawl's other nonsense is changing the fundamental tone of the setting and that is a valid reason to dislike them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 00:25:17


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

As long as you admit that your dislike is a subjective opinion and not one based on any objective problem that is all well and good.

Lots of whingers who don't make that distinction

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






BL books rarely improve the lore. They're one of the main sources of inanity for the setting. There of course are some decent books as well.

The codex lore is good, or at least as good as it can be in this butchered post-gathering-storm version of the setting. Showing how the primaris fit in the chapters is quite nicely done.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

You've not read many, by your own admission, so you have no valid opinion on the matter.

In my opinion, based on reading many BL books, some serve to greatly improve my outlook on the lore and enhance my understanding.

Some are bad (Some novels are not worth reading at all), but the general quality of the current team is solid.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/04 00:39:13


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ishagu wrote:
As long as you admit that your dislike is a subjective opinion and not one based on any objective problem that is all well and good.

Lots of whingers who don't make that distinction


I love your intensity for the game and the current background.

I love less how you tend to just not be able to accept people can not like primaris background for legitimate reasons. Your love of them is subjective opinion as much as anyone who hates them in the background. At their very birth onto the scene they came in as super miracle babies to save the imperium from the edge of darkness, that alone is a reason to kind of dislike their roll out.

No one is wrong for loving them, or hating them, they are both opinions. Unless you can tell me how its a fact that everyone should love them, if you can I'd love to hear it. If you can't, it's ok to accept people may dislike them and feel they detract from the setting.

It's a setting we all love, but we don't all have to love how it changes or new inclusions to it. In fact I think it'd be pretty boring if we all agreed all the time. That's just me though.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





gonna agree with Ishagu here, the fact is Primaris Marines are in their infancy, and a LOT of the development for them is being done in the novels


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AngryAngel80 wrote:


No one is wrong for loving them, or hating them, they are both opinions. Unless you can tell me how its a fact that everyone should love them, if you can I'd love to hear it. If you can't, it's ok to accept people may dislike them and feel they detract from the setting.



yeah except some people ARE wrong in how they express that dislike dude. Let's examine an actual quote on this very thread.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:



But all of that has been completely over shadowed by the literal truth that their lore is complete garbage, and they were shoe-horned into a dead lore to sell new models. NO one loved the lore these idiots came from. No one
. Oh, Cawl was hiding over 100k soldiers in a bunker, while TERRA was being attacked? K. No, wait, QUE?
.


that's not an opinion that is a completely incorrect non factual statement. an attempt to present personal opinion as fact. a degeneration of those who actually dolike Primaris (for the record, as GW fleshes out their background I actually am warming to even the lore for Primaris)

So no it's not just Ishuga coming in and putting down anyone who dislikes Primaris. it's the anti-Primaris Hate train saying everyone hates them (which is an outright lie and they know it) in an attempt to shout down those who like them.

If he gets short well... how often can you correct the same ill informed statement time and time again from people who basicly say absurd stuff like they've not read any of the lore but that they know the "real story" of primaris marines and that it's crap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 07:17:42


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ishagu wrote:
You've not read many, by your own admission, so you have no valid opinion on the matter.

In my opinion, based on reading many BL books, some serve to greatly improve my outlook on the lore and enhance my understanding.

Some are bad (Some novels are not worth reading at all), but the general quality of the current team is solid.


well I read spears of the emperor and it was bad, and this night I read devastation of baal, because it was the only one I could find. And devastation has a horrible ending, they kill of all blood angels and replace them with primaris, it is just like the white scare supplement. Almost all marines get killed off, and replaced with primaris.

I will maybe try to read some non imperial stuff, or maybe not marine stuff. Because if the two books are considered good, I don't know what is a bad w40k one.

   
Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

In my opinion the best toy solder books are the Horus Heresy books.

Cypher | Craftworlds | Drukhari | Dark Angels | Necrons | Emperor's Children(30k/40k) | Tyranids | Orks | Death Guard

Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals | Flesh-Eater Courts
 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Some of them are very good, yes. Some are pretty rubbish too.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Karol wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
You've not read many, by your own admission, so you have no valid opinion on the matter.

In my opinion, based on reading many BL books, some serve to greatly improve my outlook on the lore and enhance my understanding.

Some are bad (Some novels are not worth reading at all), but the general quality of the current team is solid.


well I read spears of the emperor and it was bad, and this night I read devastation of baal, because it was the only one I could find. And devastation has a horrible ending, they kill of all blood angels and replace them with primaris, it is just like the white scare supplement. Almost all marines get killed off, and replaced with primaris.

I will maybe try to read some non imperial stuff, or maybe not marine stuff. Because if the two books are considered good, I don't know what is a bad w40k one.



if your entire issue with devestation of Baal is "OMHG! THEY REPLACE BLOOD ANGELS WITH PRIAMRIS" then yeah.. you're not going to have a good time with any post GS marine books. seriously if you judge a book bad because it has primaris marines you're basicly a lost cause

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Juggernaut






Okay, since the pro-primaris are kinda spiteful and childhish (ironic since they are the ones calling other people immature and lost causes), I think this thread needs to stop. Visibly this subject is too sensitive for some people around here.

 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Getting upset because people disagree with your negative outlook?

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion 779789 10560296 wrote:
if your entire issue with devestation of Baal is "OMHG! THEY REPLACE BLOOD ANGELS WITH PRIAMRIS" then yeah.. you're not going to have a good time with any post GS marine books. seriously if you judge a book bad because it has primaris marines you're basicly a lost cause

No not really, I don't understand why they didn't kill off all the BA. Then it would at least make sense to replace them. The way the book ends and how easy the tyranids are beaten by the primaris, makes the whole fight that happen before make no sense at all. It is as if you tried to dig a ditch for 2 days, did 2 meters, and your step brother comes with an excavator does the whole 40m in 30 min. Makes whole your work pointless. Same with devastation of baal. Now if primaris came in to baal, because to make neew primaris you would need parts of the old BA. And they came too late or when there was not much of any genetic material to harvest. The it would at least have been tragic. A big opportunity lost. But we get a deus ex machina ending where khorn demon and gulliman wipe out a tyranid fleet, in like last few pages of the book.

Am readin what I think is a SoS or SoB book right now, called Faith and Fire, seems to be a lot better then the spears and baal book. Stuff in it makes more sense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 13:53:55


 
   
Made in us
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






 Ishagu wrote:
Getting upset because people disagree with your negative outlook?


Opinion =/= negative outlook

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Dark Imperium 1,2 and Devastation of Ball are essential lore for the current 40k setting. If you've not read them you can't comment on what is or isn't good.
Silly.


He’s right. U should really be a bit more tolerant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 19:04:56


 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Across the Rubicon

 Khornate25 wrote:
Okay, since the pro-primaris are kinda spiteful and childhish (ironic since they are the ones calling other people immature and lost causes), I think this thread needs to stop. Visibly this subject is too sensitive for some people around here.


Given your original post, this quoted statement feel very biased toward those you call spiteful and childish. Strange, how often it is the opposing view is the one that is in the wrong.

I like Primaris models. Well most of them. I can understand others not liking them. I certainly don't like all the models or even all the factions in 40k. But you don't see me, or I doubt anyone, going into the new Eldar (or Sisters of Battle) thread and raising the same kind of ruckus that that model is bad and not an aspect warrior or whatever. How many months would you like your army to be literally be called out for not being what it is? There are people of Dakka Dakka that have stated with no mirth that Primaris are not space marines and they don't even aesthetically look like space marines rather are from Halo or Infinity.

I can agree that Primaris are like the Tau in that a very vocal group like to bag on them at every opportunity. And like the Tau, their biggest crime seems to be they didn't exist since the beginning of 3rd edition. And bagging has gone on way too long to be considered gentle ribbing of someone's favorite faction. To me, if very much feels that the anti-Primaris are being spiteful. Not that they don't have some cause as Primaris have locked up a large number of the new 40k models releases and have called into question the continued existence of non-Primaris space marines among other issues. I don't know how much concern I would put into those issues. Even without Primaris, there would be no guarantee GW would put out models these players would have wanted, and GW has going well out of their way to not remove feasibility of non-Primaris space marines in both terms of model releases and codex rules. However, I don't really have an old space marine army in which to worry about said things. I have a few Dark Angels painted as fallen that would work well enough as CSM (which is usually how they get used anyways). I suppose that lack interchangeability of parts could be a fair criticism of Primaris, but I don't have much of bits collection anyways and don't bother too much with it. I can see how that would be an irritation though.

Even the fairly recent non-scientific poll here on Dakka revealed that fewer people would bother replacing their old models with new ones last time I saw the results. Honestly, that surprised me since it was anonymous, it is easy enough say yes when you aren't actually spending the money and I suspect the average Dakkanaut spends more on 40k models than the average 40k player. That definitely suggests that 'true scale' marines wouldn't have sold as well as Primaris. It certainly angered some people with this introduction, but I really do think those people should step back and take a look at their metal state if this kind of thing is eliciting that strong of emotions. And it is merely internet hyperbole, perhaps refrain from such strong language such as hate or even reconsider giving your opinion if all it really is going to be is negative or a thread crap post.

I am fine with other not liking my Primaris army. There are literally more than a dozen factions to pick from and nothing is stopping a person from playing space marines without them. Yeah, a space marine army is going to be weaker without Primaris. Just like a Primaris army is going to be weaker without non-Primaris marine units. I play 40k for the spectacle of miniatures gaming and to have fun. I always try my best to win with the army I have even if it isn't the best, but I certainly don't have to win to have fun. If I did, I would have given up miniatures wargaming long ago since even at by best I was an okay player and have become a much worst player since then.

No one has to like the direction that GW is going. They don't even need to be quite about it. However, I do think it is important for anti-Primaris posters to remember there are people like me that have put a pretty penny into buying my collection and a couple of minutes building and painting them. I certainly don't appreciate the vitriol toward that. Doubly so as I really like Phobos armor which seems to be the biggest target. I have must explained half-a-dozen times or more their feet look like fantasy bucket boots (doubly so after looking at a fair number of GW fantasy models after the fact) and they look like sci-fi version of fantasy light armor to me like what you would see a ranger/rouge wear. They certainly don't look like crocs and Bermuda shorts to me having only a slight passing resemblance in my opinion. So my replies are less about spite and more about bewildered confusion as many of the criticisms. Primaris don't look like space marines? Primaris aren't real space marines because they lack weapon flexibilty? Primaris don't look grimdark/gothic? Primaris look cartoonish compared to real space marines? Primaris vehicles don't look like space marine vehicles? The assault of strange and sometime seemingly outlandish critiisms of Primaris often look like someone is taking a molehill and turning it into a mountain.

Others can have these criticisms. I doubt I am going to change their minds since they have had two years to grapple with it. At the same time, I find in no way Primaris not be superior in terms of their technical aspects and proportions compared to the old model style. As mentioned, I never found the interchangeability of parts a highly valued aspect of the old models to outweigh the new kits improved over all appearance. However, that I could see someone lamenting as a valid concern. Just not one I share.

Simply put you are not going to find me dumping on non-Primaris space marines. I certainly won't be slinging the same kinda of negativity about them that I see in nearly every thread mentioning Primaris. I don't doubt for a minute that this will be the end of bagging on Primaris on Dakka. I am sure every new release or even mention of Primaris will have the same old vitriol, that is becoming cliche at this point, leveled at them. But I guess I am the one being spiteful and childish.

   
Made in us
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This is the Dakka forums. In the year of Trump/Boris/Balanaro. If you are not solidly in one binary camp, you are instantly turned into a subject for mockery until you delete your comments.

Seriously, it's Dakka. Everyone here is, or has at one time been, hyperbolic and irrational. It's the nature of the internet through a pair of binoculars under a microscope. It's pure distilled internet here, on the Dakka forums.

We went through 20 or so pages of this with the RAW/RAI mess that was the Rule of 3 thread.

Or the Guardsmen should cost X thread.

Or the Primaris Repulsor is trash thread.

Or the X is Y thread. It's just Dakka. Right now it's The Primaris Goods vs. The Primaris Bads. I'm gonna go see if OTB will take bets on who'll win.
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander




Halifax

I think if you're not into Primaris the easiest thing is to just not talk about them. It's okay not to talk about them. Let other people enjoy them and move on. For the most part I'm not into them (lovely models, just not interested in their fluff/owning them/talking about them) and I think it improves my quality of life to let the people that enjoy them get on with enjoying them.

Of course, it's hard not to point out that you don't like something. There's even a meme about it. I think it's just another bad habit to break. I advise finding something you like to talk about (and I should take that advise too).
   
 
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