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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at the Imperial Assault section of their store, everything is unavailable. Problem is I don't know if that's because they've stopped making it, or just because FFG is so awful at producing adequate stock of anything.

IA has not been available through FFG's store for ages due to a licensing issue, from memory they licensed the game engine from Hasbro who then sued them over breaching it.

Edit- clarification.

That... wha... that's stupid.

Ah well, I've always been of the opinion that the biggest mistake that FFG made with their SW games was making the IA and Legion models incompatible with one another, although thinking on it now maybe that was't their choice.

One of the people hit in the layoff posted on reddit that IA and Destiny are pretty much dead and have been for a while. Probably explains why sellers on Amazon had IA for like $40 for a month last fall.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I dunno, disney's been doing other things like SW rebels and the mandalorian etc, which should give other stuff, problem is though yeah, you can't just toss in a new ship into a video game, just for example, as easily. RPGs where responsable for making up a lot of the foundations of the EU back in the day, now though they proably are a lot more restricted.

I mean, if you asked me "what would you like your Star Wars war game to be like", I'd have hoped for kits that allow me to customize my own Jedi/Sith/Mando/Imperial Intelligence/Scoundrel commander and trick out my troops with various cosmetic upgrade options. A squad of Death Troopers but they have Tanktrooper helmets and painted camo, etc.

While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Quasistellar wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Honestly, and this may come off salty, but I used to love FFG. That love has wilted in their current path they've ventured down.

Making my X wing forces useless without spending hundreds in upgrade packs or buying them all over again, killing off other games I enjoyed before they even really felt done ( Conquest ).

They just seem to put out a game, on a very short life clock and I can't trust them anymore so I have to vote with my wallet and walk away.

To put it in a way they can understand, they were supposed to bring balance to gaming, not leave it in darkness and they broke my heart.

If anything they are going down the path in my view of a more flaky GW. Which is probably why some of their IPs aren't doing as well as they once did, people can only be fleeced so much and so often or stung so many times with dying games they just up and cease to support for whatever the reason may be.

I won't touch any of their games outside of single purchase offerings I can love as one and done and I fear for anyone buying heavy into any of their current systems.

To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.

They didn't handle the transition well at all in my opinion. If you only got a few ships from Edition 1, yeah, no worries just get the upgrade things and you are good to go. I had a lot from X wing, so to get all my stuff upgraded, including huge ships and it would be close to around 250$ in upgrade packs for all of my stuff as some would need multiple upgrade packs with how they are set up and I had all the factions with a large amount of Empire for running big games which I did sometimes. For me, that wasn't a small expense and GW handled that much better with the transition to 8th ed which had me buying 50$ worth of books to use all of my models as well as no other edition I'd played in till that point needing a full rules overhaul and replacement books to keep up with it on launch.

Now FFG have been pumping up the costs and for what was once an easy sell for friends as it was cheap, they are losing that along the way and with what happened to me others really don't trust them to jump into Edition 2 around here and I don't blame them. As I said, I was once a big fan of theirs but they burned me with one too many game bailed on, and the 2nd ED rip off. For those enjoying the system, more power to them but I can't justify spending that much again. I'd rather just keep the old stuff and play it with friends who bother my ships for the games in 1st ed style.

As well, I don't like the costs being not on the cards at all, not with a company with such a bad track record for supporting games long term, at least my old X wing has points for playing still as I bought them.

 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

 silent25 wrote:
Possible the parent company is trimming down FFG to prepare for sale and make it look like a more attractive investment.

Actually, this reminds me of what Asmodee did with Mayfair and Days of Wonder. They stripped away the company down to its best-selling product, eg. Settlers of Cataan, and Small World.

Looking at that, then, I wonder how FFG made it this far. IIRC, Christian Petersen was head of Asmodee North America, so mebbe he was able to "protect" the company. Now that he's left, the company's being reduced to its best-selling products. This doesn't happen overnight, so it's taken awhile for the effects to be seen. My FFG demo guy contact (who never replied to my support requests from years back, so I'm not surprised about the FFG cutbacks) looks to also be leaving the company for the Asmodee demo coordinator. I've also heard that designers and playtesters had long hours of unpaid playtest time.

I'm surprised that Imperial Assault is ending, although I suppose it's expected since it's been around several years with plenty of released content.

I'd say the hobby industry as a whole is contracting, and was headed for a contraction before Asmodee and KS, when "cult of the new" was a term used on BGG. Essentially, it meant that boardgames were being produced so quickly that you didn't have time in your gaming group to play a boardgame more than once before the next one arrived. Then we had a supposed golden age of boardgames, further acceleration of games with KS, and Amazon selling boardgames at 50% - 70% during the holiday season. Locally, in Silicon Valley, perhaps the highest concentration of gamers with money to spend, we had a gaming flea market, and 70% off was the norm, with some sellers, including myself, giving away games for free, because we already had too many games. Consumers will still have plenty of games and new games to play, it's just that they won't have -- because they won't need -- as many as the industry is producing.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.

Phase II, released next month (maybe) along with B2 droids.

 ingtaer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.

Phase II, released next month (maybe) along with B2 droids.

Ah, nice

A private equity firm has owned Asmodee for many years now, back when they started buying up all the board game producers a few years ago. They consolidated the market, increased the share value and sold the entire company off.
To another private equity firm.

It was after this sale that these things started happening. So it’s not because Asmodee was suddenly bought by a firm, it’s just that the first firm knew the bubble they built was going to burst, so they made sure to sell it.

After several years of flooding the market with product, raising prices, and maximizing profit, it’s no wonder the company is now going through a massive contraction.

Just an FYI that the problems began as soon as Asmodee started to consolidate the market, and not last year when it was sold to a second equity firm.

Funny how all this is going down, when we were originally told in corporate PR-speak that the consolidation and MAPPs were for the good of the LGS. I wonder how LGSs will do when several large companies begin shuttering their doors to pay shareholder dividends.

Unfortunately, maximizing profits pretty much means a growth death cycle. Its being reflected in many industries right now.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.

Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

OK, there's nothing wrong with wanting that, but it's not a reasonable expectation or a fair criticism of the game/FFG I don't think. Star Wars is a lot closer to historicals stuff than it is to "Your Dudes" settings like 40K(*used to be), so when FFG put out a box of Storm Troopers they're going to be Storm Troopers, as-seen on TV, because for most people the appeal of buying Storm Troopers is that they look like Storm Troopers. There's nothing stopping you from doing your Death Troopers with Tanktrooper heads and camo armour paint idea, it's just a matter of conversions rather than being an option in the box.

Oh, and I'm willing to bet you're just slightly underestimating the number of historicals people out there. Just a wee bit.

 Ghool wrote:
After several years of flooding the market with product, raising prices, and maximizing profit, it’s no wonder the company is now going through a massive contraction.

Are you saying that Games Workshop's business model is not sustainable? That's... oh, wait. We're in the Asmodee thread...

I think boardgames as a whole are about to go into a massive contraction. Boardgames are big and expensive, so storing a dozen of these things takes up a LOT of space. Storing a hundred of them requires creating new pocket dimensions (especially if you do kickstarters). Gone are the days where gamers would have a closet with Monopoly, Checkers, and a beat up, nonworking copy of Operation missing most of its pieces.

I think we are quickly approaching the limit to how much stuff we can handle as an industry and as consumers. And I think FFG has been one of the worst offenders of it, with product lines like Imperial Assault being the very definition of "too much stuff, too much money". Then they went collectible with Destiny and, to a lesser extent, Keyforge. That they'd be the first to contract is probably to be expected.

My prediction is that compactness will be the next trend in board gaming. Stuff like the Tiny Epic games, or even card games with rotation, so that you don't need to keep binders full of cards (unless you want to). I also think board game miniatures will get smaller (we have the technology to make them look pretty good now), though ironically, the Joan of Arc kickstarter, which is just 15mm models, takes up more space than my children.

Worth noting, this is definitely an Asmodee wide things and not FFG specific. People are affected across all the companies Asmodee has been buying over the last few years.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
One of the people hit in the layoff posted on reddit that IA and Destiny are pretty much dead and have been for a while. Probably explains why sellers on Amazon had IA for like $40 for a month last fall.

Well, when you don't release new product for over a year, what did they think was going to happen?

And that's before we consider the poor balance that arose from the release of a card to support the Rebels characters, that basically broke competitive play for around a year.

IA didn't die naturally - it was murdered by its parents.

 Albertorius wrote:

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

This is why the franchise is dying.

> Are you saying that Games Workshop's business model is not sustainable? That's... oh, wait. We're in the Asmodee thread...

Well, as I understand it, GW changed its business model somewhat after the Kirby years. The contrast paints certainly show an attempt to gain more customers.

Also, unlike FFG, GW has only two "lifestyle" games. FFG has gone through several: Star Wars Legion, Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Arkham Horror LCG, Star Wars Destiny, Keyforge, L5R LCG, and, previously, Android LCG, Cthulhu LCG, and Runewars. Dunno if LotR LCG is still around.

GW's business model, then, looks to be focused on a few product lines (similar to WotC), while FFG's is, as another poster said, throwing spaghetti at a wall.

> Worth noting, this is definitely an Asmodee wide things and not FFG specific. People are affected across all the companies Asmodee has been buying over the last few years.

Yep. As I said earlier, I think it's a hobby-wide problem. Frex, CMON's having mixed results with its growth. (Speaking of CMON, FFG's "spaghetti wall" business model seems to be close to CMON's "fire and forget" one...

I'm somewhat distressed over the news about FFG's rpg division, but not panicky as regards my gaming. Having formerly worked in IT, I will always have sympathy for anyone caught up in a sudden wave of corporate-driven layoffs. That's a terrible place to be.

FFG's Star Wars rpg...I started out very skeptical of the funky dice, especially after the WFRP 3e fiasco. But a friend convinced me to give it a try, and after playing, then running it, I fell in love with the system. I'd say it's my favorite rpg game system of the 2010's, and it cured me of my fear of proprietary dice, much to the benefit of X-Wing and Modiphius's Fallout: Wasteland Warfare.

But...the Star Wars rpg line is all but complete. The career splatbooks for all three lines are out. We've got setting books for the interwar period and the Clone Wars. They're putting out collection books for both gear and starships (which is, I would argue, how they should have started the lines, but oh well). I mean, what's left? Another two-book setting set for the Old Republic? Maybe a one- or two-book setting set for the sequel trilogy?

There's not much left to do but a second edition. And for those of us who like the system, I don't think there's much a second edition needs to do beyond incorporating some errata and a few ideas from Genesys.

It's Genesys where I feel more squirrel about this news. I really like the system, I love the idea of using it as a generic engine with setting books fleshing out the concepts hinted at in the core. My main problem with the line has been how slow the books have been to release, and I doubt that going freelance will help that situation.

And that's assuming that Asmodee (or rather, their shadowy owners) aren't planning to just abandon the rpgs in hopes of flipping the company to the next private equity firm who will trim and flip again, etc, until the company is dead enough for the vulture capitalists to swoop in and pick the corpse apart.

I hope that doesn't happen, though. I really like some of FFG's stuff, even if their distribution and game-support focus leaves a lot to be desired.

 Dysartes wrote:

IA didn't die naturally - it was murdered by its parents.

Imperial Assault didn't really have anywhere to go without rebooting it to another era anyway. It had reached the point where it was a pretty full product line in spite of being crippled by a terrible system of micro expansions instead of full experiences.

The vs mode was cool but never really caught on for a bunch of reasons. Really terrible activation control balance was the big culprit, but the setup time of maps was a huge issue as well. Still, a fun game, particularly with the app.

 LunarSol wrote:

Imperial Assault didn't really have anywhere to go without rebooting it to another era anyway. It had reached the point where it was a pretty full product line in spite of being crippled by a terrible system of micro expansions instead of full experiences.

You say that, but I wouldn't have said no to an Endor expansion with some Ewoks. They could've released campaign/skirmish books (like that one they did for Descent), even mixing expansions (FFG's fear of expansion mixing release gimped Descent and Imperial Assault). They could've done more with the app as well. I think it only really did the core set and Jabba's Realm.

Imperial Assault was a mature line, but it was a successful one that was still selling rather well (based on how quickly the entire line disappeared from Miniature Market during the Black Friday sale, back when it was still active). I don't think it is a coincidence that it just stopped dead the second Legion was in production, and I wouldn't be surprised if whatever screwy thing was going on with Hasbro wasn't at least partially responsible.

One day, someone is going to make a miniature of the Ithorian heavy armor that was on Star Wars Galaxies or some sexy Mon Calamari - then and only then will I consider a Star Wars miniature line "complete".

The expansion model was just a mess. That initial glut of $100+ dollars worth of micro expansions to replace the cardboard tokens in the box put a ton of people off the game and that design really didn't get any better going forward. If they had just added variety it would be one thing, but the campaign ends in a climatic AT-ST duel that's hugely underwhelming with one AT-ST. Immediately following that up with the Boba Fett story, Boba Fett sold separately, and no real clear guide as to which of the expansions were really needed kept a ton of people away.

I'm not surprised it sold out during the sale. Its a compelling game with a lot of cool material that nickled and dimed its audience away. It's basically an entire line of "I'd want that if it was cheaper" and I've considered picking stuff up myself when I've seen it on sale, but could never find the things I really wanted.

TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.

 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.

I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.

 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.

Such a nice sentiment for the thousands of gamers that play FFG (RPG) games.
Sheesh.

OT: Asmodee USA sale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Boardgamedeals/comments/emtz2r/asmodee_usa_sale_crystal_clans_wall_expansions/

Hey, look. The Game of Thrones LCG. Add that to the list of "lifestyle" games FFG put out.

FFG's been treating their employees badly even before the Asmodee takeover. Rumormill is that they weren't paying their employees for playtesting, even those were done outside company hours.

This implosion was more when than if, and I guess I'm glad to hear my favorite FFG game designer, Nikki Valens (and Kevin Wilson?) left when they did. Their growth model, particularly "lifestyle" games, was, imo, unsustainable, and, for all I know, Asmodee's chopping block may be the alternative to bankruptcy for the company.

Unless, of course, you were all buying Star Wars RPG books left and right.

What's a "lifestyle" game?

 ced1106 wrote:
OT: Asmodee USA sale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Boardgamedeals/comments/emtz2r/asmodee_usa_sale_crystal_clans_wall_expansions/

Hey, look. The Game of Thrones LCG. Add that to the list of "lifestyle" games FFG put out.

FFG's been treating their employees badly even before the Asmodee takeover. Rumormill is that they weren't paying their employees for playtesting, even those were done outside company hours.

This implosion was more when than if, and I guess I'm glad to hear my favorite FFG game designer, Nikki Valens (and Kevin Wilson?) left when they did. Their growth model, particularly "lifestyle" games, was, imo, unsustainable, and, for all I know, Asmodee's chopping block may be the alternative to bankruptcy for the company.

Unless, of course, you were all buying Star Wars RPG books left and right.

And of course Arkham stuff isn't on sale... though I suppose that could be a good thing on that front?

Speaking of FFG and Star Wars?

What’s going on with Armada these days? Just went to browse on Element, checking the price of the SSD (too much just for display, sadly). And there doesn’t seem to be a huge amount of stuff for it?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Speaking of FFG and Star Wars?

What’s going on with Armada these days? Just went to browse on Element, checking the price of the SSD (too much just for display, sadly). And there doesn’t seem to be a huge amount of stuff for it?

The just released a Rebel and Imperial Capital Ship, and they announced Clone Wars to be eventually.

So expect the glacier slow release cycle for Armada to pick up very slightly, then die off for a while.