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I wonder if those replace the existing Tempestus Scions doctrine, or are in addition. (my guess is replace, but still a couple of them look pretty good)


More AM goodness on the Community page:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/the-greater-good-astra-militarum-faction-focusgw-homepage-post-4/

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's in addition to, with the Stormtroopers doctrine becoming their equivalent of a 'pure' army bonus since locking yourself into a single faction can be rough.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's in addition to, with the Stormtroopers doctrine becoming their equivalent of a 'pure' army bonus since locking yourself into a single faction can be rough.

Yeah, I certainly hope its in addition to, given how unit restricted a pure Scions detachment is. Hoping that the rules make weapon options more than just plasma guns viable for Scion squads, since I love the concept of HSVG and mass HSLG fire. Maybe a stratagem or ability to change their HSLG to assault 2 and their HSVG to assault 4? It would be cool to see them show off their shock troop role better than it is right now.

I think the HSVG is a little underrated, even if it's not quite on the level of the plasma gun- it's been indirectly buffed by reductions to the base Scion cost, making cheaper weapon options a little more useful.

With four shots, it can overcome its low S through the Tempestus order to re-roll failed wounds. It's half the price of a plasma gun, gets twice as many shots at close range and four times as many at long range, and doesn't have to worry about Gets Hot. Sure, it's got a point less of AP and it's only D1, but I'd say it's more flexible.

The main weakness is still that they're Heavy, but I think that's more of a problem if you're counting on Storm Troopers for the bonus shots on 6s. Assuming these new doctrines replace Storm Troopers, that gives some more options- the ability to move and fire Heavy without penalty is an obvious possibility, but extra hits on unmodified 6s could work too.

Also, for just 18pts more than a suicide Command Squad with four plasma guns, you can take a full ten-man squad of Scions with four HSVGs to sit on an objective and fire at full effectiveness from 24". I think the HSVG is already worth considering, but if we get some new stratagems that help it out more it'll be a solid choice.

 catbarf wrote:
I think the HSVG is a little underrated, even if it's not quite on the level of the plasma gun- it's been indirectly buffed by reductions to the base Scion cost, making cheaper weapon options a little more useful.

With four shots, it can overcome its low S through the Tempestus order to re-roll failed wounds. It's half the price of a plasma gun, gets twice as many shots at close range and four times as many at long range, and doesn't have to worry about Gets Hot. Sure, it's got a point less of AP and it's only D1, but I'd say it's more flexible.

The main weakness is still that they're Heavy, but I think that's more of a problem if you're counting on Storm Troopers for the bonus shots on 6s. Assuming these new doctrines replace Storm Troopers, that gives some more options- the ability to move and fire Heavy without penalty is an obvious possibility, but extra hits on unmodified 6s could work too.

Also, for just 18pts more than a suicide Command Squad with four plasma guns, you can take a full ten-man squad of Scions with four HSVGs to sit on an objective and fire at full effectiveness from 24". I think the HSVG is already worth considering, but if we get some new stratagems that help it out more it'll be a solid choice.

I didn't actually notice the new doctrine rules Scions are getting, so in that case with the one that lets you fire and move without penalty for heavy weapons, I think it's alright the way it is atm. I like how there's a doctrine for both deep strike style lists and mechanized ones now, because it always felt skewed to using Valkyries and their inbuilt deep strike since there was no synergy with Scions and their transports weirdly enough. I'm glad to see that's no longer the case. I kinda feel sad that the Psian Jackals have the most situational trait (though ironically still better at inflicting morale than actual Night Lords since there's no cap) but I love the fact that the Lamdan Lions AP trait also technically counts for CC, so a squad of dinky scions hit harder AP wise than Chosen or Intercessors do without power weapons, power knives go!

Ty for sharing the Scion traits, did not see them.

I love the Crack Shot trait (+6" range), that far outweighs the original ability of extra shots on 6s.

HSVG are nice (and I usually take a squad in my Tempestus Bat), but I keep finding that it's already very easy to get mass firepower from other units. Hitting on 4s when you DS is hardly the end of the world

In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

 amanita wrote:
In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

Isn't that pretty much a Centaur?

The Scion traits were only posted on Facebook, but tomorrow we get an actual article.

So, the article is up.

High-level takeaways:

-Scions are getting 14 new stratagems- 8 generic, plus one per new regiment.

-The doctrines shown yesterday are replacements for the generic Storm Troopers doctrine. No stacking, unfortunately.

-Each regiment is getting a unique Relic and Warlord Trait.

So, it seems that Scions are being treated as a standalone faction, and the different regiments are going to have more of an impact than just choice of doctrine.

I think I'm going to hold off on the theoryhammer until we see what all the unique stratagems are.

So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Schadenfreude would apply, except, i play csm and don't get them anyways...

Feelsironwarriors.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

I don't think theres a wysiwyg paint scheme thing for IG in the first place.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

I don't think theres a wysiwyg paint scheme thing for IG in the first place.

They literally show you what the scion schemes look like in their respective doctrine pages.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Schadenfreude would apply, except, i play csm and don't get them anyways...

Feelsironwarriors.

You think you're Iron Warriors feel bad how do you think my Night Lords feel knowing that there are scions that are better terror troops than them?

Joking aside, I'm glad guard got some things that make their super heavys more viable. Hope to see more baneblades and friends on the table.

 catbarf wrote:

 amanita wrote:
In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

Isn't that pretty much a Centaur?

Indeed, that is quite similar but with wheels instead of tracks and as many options.

Still hoping that Scions will get something that will incentives using something other than plasma suicide squads.

More AP would have been way more useful on standard guardsmen.

Still liking the +6" range, seems to be a no brainier.

But I am excited to see what the full release looks like. Fingers crossed for a new psychic table (I know I'm in the minority on that one)

I think if the Guard were getting access to a new discipline in TGG, it'd've been referenced in the preview.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Not quite. They are a sub-faction under the greater Astra Militarum faction umbrella, but they are removed as a different organization from the Militarum Auxillia and the Militarum Regimentos (most all of the regular guardsmen). The Militarum Tempestus organization has different in-game restrictions, and they are distinctively different in rules and lore from Auxillia, as they are specifically mentioned removed from the rules for Advisors and Auxillia units as well as they are not considered as a part of the Auxillia or as Advisors from other Imperial Organizations.

So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

 Commissar Benny wrote:
So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

IG has got 2 models(commissar Raine, Marbo), 3 if you include Eisenhorn as ally friends. And some more if you use BSF models as stand ins.
I do feel your pain, but we’re just on the down swing atm, for a long time we had a huge model collection, then there was FW support, I want to complain, but then I look at other factions(Necrons).

And Eldar are still waiting for their Aspect Warrior updates too.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think they will get their models updated first before we do.

 Commissar Benny wrote:
So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

I'm pretty sure its coming soon. Soon as in this year or next. The traitor guard models are a perfect lead-in to new kits.

As for the rules... they seem pretty solid.

Well, if we are wishing...

Cavalry for AdMech would seem to argue that there's a place for IG Cavalry. We've seen ratlings in Blackstone, and Squats in Necromunda. We've also seen all these 'repurposed' vehicles in the GSC, so:

Produce a plastic ratlings squad, available as a light/infliltrating/sniper unit.
Produce a plastic squat squad, available as a special weapons unit.
Produce a plastic cavalry unit.
Produce actual IG versions of the bikes and ATVs for IG to use.

Then, if you have to, roll out monopose Guardsmen in some Blackstone Fortress expansion and make IG players wait 6 months for a box of them. If you can do it for Traitors, do it for Loyalists.