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2020/07/21 17:52:46
Subject: Re:Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
A thread on Facebook reminded me of another interesting issue, how to treat the New in names like New York. Is it a meaningful word to be translated or just a proper name whose sound is to be kept intact?
Spanish translates it and we get Nueva York but Chinese, Japanese and Arabic do not.
Other times the name is descriptive can also vary, should we translate the Park in Central Park but not the Central? Or neither? The Wall in Wall Street? The Street?
The Statue of Liberty seems to get translated in most languages (both Chinese and Japanese call it the Goddess of Liberty which is interesting) but not the Empire State Building.
What about names that are entirely descriptive, Main Street, Oak Road, Bayside Drive? Should those be translated?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just checked Arabic DOES translate Empire State building as well.
مبني المقاطعة الملكية
The Royal County Building, which I have to start using in some way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/21 17:54:52
2020/07/24 05:32:44
Subject: Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
¿Are Spanish style punctuation marks useful?
¡Yes, yes they are!
Opening and closing question and exclamation marks should be a part of any well-structured language, so convenient to preview where a sentence is going, especially when reading aloud.
I have to start putting together my specs for the perfect language.
2020/07/26 19:03:40
Subject: Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
Kid_Kyoto wrote: ¿Are Spanish style punctuation marks useful?
¡Yes, yes they are!
Opening and closing question and exclamation marks should be a part of any well-structured language, so convenient to preview where a sentence is going, especially when reading aloud.
I have to start putting together my specs for the perfect language.
Heh one issue I run into in japanese is that in japanese you often have very little idea of meaning of sentence or type until the very end Now while reading/listening I have got to stage where I'm thinking in japanese so I can understand it. Does cause spanner for trying to translate speech in real time to others though...
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/07/28 11:09:48
Subject: Re:Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
Kid_Kyoto wrote: A thread on Facebook reminded me of another interesting issue, how to treat the New in names like New York. Is it a meaningful word to be translated or just a proper name whose sound is to be kept intact?
Spanish translates it and we get Nueva York but Chinese, Japanese and Arabic do not.
Other times the name is descriptive can also vary, should we translate the Park in Central Park but not the Central? Or neither? The Wall in Wall Street? The Street?
The Statue of Liberty seems to get translated in most languages (both Chinese and Japanese call it the Goddess of Liberty which is interesting) but not the Empire State Building.
What about names that are entirely descriptive, Main Street, Oak Road, Bayside Drive? Should those be translated?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just checked Arabic DOES translate Empire State building as well.
مبني المقاطعة الملكية
The Royal County Building, which I have to start using in some way.
This is a really interesting thread!
Turkish varies a lot. New York is New York but New Zealand is Yeni Zelanda, for instance.
Hebrew also varies quite a bit. Lots of things are just transliterated (New York is New York but things for which their are biblical expressions usually translate. Street signs usually give English and Hebrew. Google maps usually only gives transliterated Hebrew, though, so makes for a nuisance for some tourists trying to find places sometimes. For instance, long street in Tel Aviv called King George Street is רחוב המלך ג'ורג (Rehov haMelech jorj) but of you don't know that melech is king and jorj-george doesn't click for you...
2020/07/28 12:04:18
Subject: Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I would imagine that in Israel which name to give which place is as much a political issue as a historical/linguistic one.
Not really, surprisingly enough. Pretty much everything that existed before 1947 retains whatever it was called then, albeit in Hebraicised versions for the Hebrew speakers. Some ancient sites found beneath places with Arabic names have reverted to their biblical names, in more or less all contexts, if they've been identified but usually the biblical name is the same as the Hebraicised Arabic name. Tel Azekah, where I work, for instance, is Tel Zakeriah in Arabic. Obviously, across the entire country, loads of Arabic placenames themselves preserve ancient Hebrew names (passing through Aramaic and Greek in between) and I think that helps ease the process of back and forth.
Obviously places that postdate the State of Israel pretty much all have Hebrew names and usually ones that are named for famous Jewish people or are tied to explicitly Jewish narratives, though. Some new streets are named for Arab citizens but its not very common in the places I spend a lot of time (though I'm not in the West bank or Arab villages very often).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 12:44:22
2020/07/28 13:01:37
Subject: Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
That's really interesting especially since names are such a political issue in Northern Ireland and they only have a 1000 years of history to cope with
2020/08/03 14:44:06
Subject: Re:Learning languages, your favorite and the most useful ones
Some videos on how English is different from other languages. They're a bit inside baseball, they talk about things other languages can do that English 'can't' which is not to say English cannot express certain ideas, but that certain things are build into the grammar of English that are not in other languages.
IE "a book, the book, books and the books" are 4 different things in English but the same thing in Japanese. A Japanese speaker can add adjectives to make these distinctions "any book, that specific book, several books, several specific books" but it's not part of the grammar there is no definite or indefinite article or plural to make those distinctions which in English are both automatic and mandatory.
(In case you're wondering Arabic has a definite article 'Al' but it also doubles as the possessive and is mandatory when starting a sentence so it's not quite the same thing...)
Similarly there's stuff baked into the grammar of other languages that are not baked into English.
So with that understanding these are worth watching.
Now while reading/listening I have got to stage where I'm thinking in japanese so I can understand it. Does cause spanner for trying to translate speech in real time to others though...