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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





They're using Kickstarter as a direct sale distribution method. If the KS isn't doing as well because people are waiting and buying at retail later... that's arguably a win as its growing the game outside of its KS crowd.

I backed the Riot Quest KS, mostly because there were a lot of solos that fit my factions this time around. It didn't put me out ahead by much or anything, but overall I found the bonuses and savings worthwhile. For Warcaster, I'm currently in the limbo of wishing I had backed, but realizing I probably would have backed too much and been disappointed if I had.

I think what I learned is that PPs kickstarters are definitely worth backing, and I probably will back the next one. What I don't need to do is stress about FOMO. Order kind of my base level of new stuff, get a couple nice bonuses and a small discount and whatever I learn I need later I can get later without feeling like a goofed not putting it in my initial order.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I have to say I like it as a KS approach. There's a few that I've honestly walked away from because when I add up the cost of everything I'd like to own its way more than I can back for - which then all goes up in value once it hits retail so I get a double "I can't afford it" shock/concern. Plus there's some where the stock after KS is very limited so it can be a case that you're just delaying the "FOMO" element till then


I also like that their approach means that the KS is generally closer to on-time. I'm not left with a KS that might take another 5 months or years to deliver

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

What I'm, personally, liking about their Kickstarter model is that they're using it as a way to not only keep their production and distribution from getting overtaxed but also as a way of controlling the SKUs as they come.

It sounds like Kickstarter #3 will have another kind of "Faction Starter" box coming for all 3 of the original factions, and an add-on box for Empyreans because of the Cadres being added and things of that nature.
   
Made in us
Assault Kommando





From a business perspective especially in light of current retail distribution which is basically if you are not WOTC, Asmodee, or GW we wont carry anything in volume a well managed KS approach works. You can make product available for interested retailers who know their customers rather than distributors, tracking how many customers you have and what the growth over time looks like is easier, product is not over produced so the need to spray and pray releases to see what bites goes down.

For non-corporate business structure I think Co-Vid really put on rails where the future of small to midsize hobby companies were going to need to go anyway.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






So how is Warcaster doing for everyone? Has there been a community popping up?

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

My warcaster pack arrived from the last KS. Great metals as always, nice resin marker and the rules and all.

The more I read them the more I like these rules and wish that Warmachine might pick them up for its skirmish side. I think they are ideal rules for a skirmish game to retain that skirmish feel; whlist also expanding its unit rosters to have a huge variety of options. Sideboarding during the game itself and being able to bring back fully dead units makes for a lot of tactical flexibility. Meanwhile the scoring system means that you can't just choke your opponent by spamming lots of cheap units

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Really excited about it. We have a few players that have built up armies. I'm waiting for the Empyrean release in a couple weeks and then we're hoping to play now that things have opened up.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

The only thing bad I have to say about the last KS is the Razorbat does not fit together well.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





That's too bad. I wonder if that's why a friend of mine turned it into a podracer.
   
Made in us
Pyre Troll






 Kanluwen wrote:
The only thing bad I have to say about the last KS is the Razorbat does not fit together well.


what was bad about the fit, cause marcher worlds is one of the factions i've most considered getting
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 greenskin lynn wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
The only thing bad I have to say about the last KS is the Razorbat does not fit together well.


what was bad about the fit, cause marcher worlds is one of the factions i've most considered getting

You can't really see it in the photos, but the front of the 'cockpit' is two parts. There's a bit with the feed for the pilot in metal and the main body is in resin.

There was a mold gate right on a part that joins the two, and it's made an awkward fit that I'm having to slowly resculpt because of the angle.

"does not fit together well" might be the wrong term? maybe I should say that the mold attachment points are not great?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 16:01:35


 
   
Made in no
Umber Guard







 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So how is Warcaster doing for everyone? Has there been a community popping up?


We have around 10 people locally that have bought in and show interest in playing. And perhaps 2-3 that fell off. Most of them have not played a game due to covid so far
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I'll be honest in that I am not interested in Warcaster directly, but I want it to succeed because if it doesn't PP as a whole is probably going down the drain. So I am glad to hear about it being played despite pandemia.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I also don't want PP to die and I do think that since MK3 started they've had a rough run. I'd love to see the tables turn and for them to have some either steady built success or a roaring success so they can rebuild to what they were.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/19 23:02:22


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Pyre Troll






i hope to pick up a starter for it soon, maybe see if i can get some friends to play

as for PP, it seems like MonPoc puts on a pretty steady amount of stuff these days, plus riot quest which just finished another kickstarter
   
Made in no
Umber Guard







I am pretty sure PP will not go down anytime soon.

There is still interest in WmH, just not on 2016 or release levels - the recent IKRPG KS is in the top 5 list of tabletop RPGs on Kickstarter both in terms of backers and money raised.

Monpoc seems to be doing very well (it has a Discord presence of about 1/2 of WmH, with a very active community). Warcaster also seems to have been surprisingly successfull despite the pandemic, as noted.

Riot Quest is impossible to evaluate as I have no idea whether the game's relative popularity is due to the WmH models it puts out or that it is actually popular.

It seems like non-GW or Asmodee-owned miniature games have taken a real hit lately due to the collapse of the distribution network that started back when Asmodee also began controlling its own distribution and so many boardgames moving to KS. That's the real KS culprit, really - with so much business going down the drain for the distributors, they had to cut back on a lot, and it means many are going down or getting bought (the nordic distributor of WmH and a few other games got bought by Asmodee two years ago).

The real question will be what happens when the 3d printing shift happens in miniature games. Things are moving fast now and it is not my impression that any of the large or even medium-sized companies are well prepared for it.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





One of the big advantages of being privately owned, is you're unlikely to really go bankrupt as long as you avoid taking massive risks. Plastic IS a massive risk, but it seems likely that PP did well enough during the PVC era to whether any issues with HIPs. Retreating back to metals and resin just means they've fallen back on things they have control over the production costs for. They're a smaller company than they were, but in some ways that's where a lot of their strengths lie.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 greenskin lynn wrote:
i hope to pick up a starter for it soon, maybe see if i can get some friends to play

Kickstarter #3 is supposed to launch in June. You might want to wait for that to see what's coming, and pledge a Head to Head level.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Just note that the KS prices aren't far off 3rd party store prices. Because the KS fullfills so close to stores getting retail stock, PP has been smart in not undermining their own distribution and market system by flooding things with super high kickstarter discounts. Which can be great for getting a lot of models, but can mean that your core market is fully satisfied and thus you don't get the uptake of sales from retailers that you might otherwise get.

The other bonus is it means you can get started right now if you want and not suffer regret that you didn't wait for the KS

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

That might be true in the UK and for KS#2, but it was not for KS#1.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Just pre-ordered my Empyreans which triggered a friend to by the Aeternus stuff. Looking forward to getting into this soon.
   
Made in us
Assault Kommando





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So how is Warcaster doing for everyone? Has there been a community popping up?


I am got my second box and start assembling my Empryeans in store today and doing demos!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:
One of the big advantages of being privately owned, is you're unlikely to really go bankrupt as long as you avoid taking massive risks. Plastic IS a massive risk, but it seems likely that PP did well enough during the PVC era to whether any issues with HIPs. Retreating back to metals and resin just means they've fallen back on things they have control over the production costs for. They're a smaller company than they were, but in some ways that's where a lot of their strengths lie.


And stuff they have personal experience in. I have been VERY impressed with PP metals and resins. I think it helps that they are going to a chunkier 35mm scale. God knows, my eyes and hands enjoy the change during painting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 16:40:07


 
   
Made in no
Umber Guard







Despite a lot of noise to the contrary, metal is still the best material for getting accurate detail. It flows and settles better than injection mold polystyrene and doesn’t require as much work to get crisp details as resin does. That requires vacuum and has a high failure rate.
   
Made in us
Assault Kommando





Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Despite a lot of noise to the contrary, metal is still the best material for getting accurate detail. It flows and settles better than injection mold polystyrene and doesn’t require as much work to get crisp details as resin does. That requires vacuum and has a high failure rate.


That is true, I think from a consumer end, plastic has ease of construction. Overcome with practice. Do got to say though, when I get to break out the power drill to do my pinning I do get some sort of enjoyment out of it. Just makes me feel like a bad a$$, instead of a dude just putting toys together. Power drill gate keeping!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The main issue with metals is that they're more prone to paint chipping and their weight adds up when you transport a whole bag. I'm REALLY fond a PP's mix of metal and resin personally, but I do like the lack of fear that comes from plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Totally forgot to mention that I finally got to play a game this weekend and really enjoyed it. Really unique feel to it; probably the only things vaguely similar is Relic Knights. I think the resource mechanics are the best they've done, and the general "engine" feel of fuel and fire to refuel encourages you to hold nothing back while also giving you too many places to spend it. Good stuff, looking forward to picking up my models and giving it a go soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 20:34:25


 
   
Made in no
Umber Guard







Oh yes, the I can’t be bothered factor is central to people’s preference for plastic.

On a the other note, how many of you have tried the game yet? I’ve got just short of ten rounds under my belt, most of them starter and skirmish but one full battle as well. I am not a big fan of playing miniature games online, so all of them physical. Really like this game. It flows beautifully and there always seems to be a way to victory. Also, it is very «cinematic» in its dice system even if the opposed rolls drive some people crazy. It also needs a bit more work on the scenario side.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 21:59:35


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'm a big fan of the card-style method of bringing units into the game as I think it works wonderfully for a skirmish game that, we hope, will grow to have a large unit roster of very diverse looking models.

I think the failing with Warmachine was the more models PP made the bigger people's collections got and the more models they wanted to play with; but the single list approach meant that people would only go for the best choices so the situational and fringe models got pushed out; plus army sizes kept going up. They've sort of tried to patch that by going heavy with themed forces, but those in a sense just lock you into smaller niches of the whole army.


The warcaster system also throws the concept of suicidal units into the mix and takes a chunk out of the "unit must buy back its cost in kills" concept of gaming. Because a unit that dies can come back you can start to see new and fresh strategies for using models. You can sacrifice a unit to delay the enemy; you can take losses without it destroying your game plan.

It's a neat system and it will be interesting to see how well it scales as the game, inevitably (hopefully) grows.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Can someone drop 2 or 3 lines about what kind of game this is?

darkswordminiatures.com
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Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Can someone drop 2 or 3 lines about what kind of game this is?


It's an objective driven, ranged focused game of resource management. The goal is to aggressively position models on objectives to score points and prevent your opponent from doing the same while constantly resummoning destroyed models further up the table to gain position. Combat wise, it's primarily about balancing the ARC you allocate to summoning with how much you use to boost the models you already have on the table with a bit of support combo play provided from a pretty solid pool of low combat solos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:

The warcaster system also throws the concept of suicidal units into the mix and takes a chunk out of the "unit must buy back its cost in kills" concept of gaming. Because a unit that dies can come back you can start to see new and fresh strategies for using models. You can sacrifice a unit to delay the enemy; you can take losses without it destroying your game plan.

It's a neat system and it will be interesting to see how well it scales as the game, inevitably (hopefully) grows.


Taking that a step farther, you actually really NEED to put your models in danger. If a model isn't contesting objectives, there's not a lot of incentive to kill it, particularly if it diminished in some capacity like a long squad member or something. Putting models in "safe" places is often less helpful than making sure your opponent has to kill them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Also, it is very «cinematic» in its dice system even if the opposed rolls drive some people crazy.


The weird thing about the dice system is that while the result of the rolls are very random, the result of attacks is fairly consistent. 1 damage per attack happens way more often than anything else. Probably 2:3 or better depending on the arm value. Generally speaking it seems like models hit fairly reliably unless the opponent is in cover and generally if you hit you'll get damage through unless the target is well armored and your gun is relatively weak. Boosting without cover (or with melee) only seems to land 2 damage a bit less than half the time unless you're talking a Warjack with a full load of ARC.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/25 14:18:52


 
   
Made in us
Assault Kommando





The game is definitely a momentum game. Keeping models safe or engaging reckless will change the moment in your opponents favor. You can really feel the momentum change in round 3, making the last 2 a hectic scramble or shoring up.

The Action, Boost, and Red dice system is pretty good. I have used it in RQ and MonPoc and someone at PP did the math on it.

Basically Action are supposed to swing but as you graduate into Boost and then Red dice the chances of your successes become more reliable.

 
   
 
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