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Inceptors with the sweet space suit helemts. They look good to me.

Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I don't really expect any ETB kit to exactly be great.

Neither do I, but comparing ETB Inceptors to ETB Intercessors etc, the ETB Inceptors are bad, while most of the rest are just not great.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.

Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.

Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

While it's wheel wells do share appearance with the outrider bike slightly and also the severe lack of clearance for what are supposed to be off road vehicles ..At least the Outrider has kind of chopper/drag bike appeal to it - these things in their own way are kind of cool I guess. There is nothing cool about go karts. ESP not when they are excessively wide! It looks so out of place in anything but a mario cart meme.

Centurions are a great model. They're over-the-top, which is what makes them awesome!

a_typical_hero wrote:
Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!

Spoiler:

That may well be the best looking version of that model I've seen to date. I think it's the mustaches.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.

Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

While it's wheel wells do share appearance with the outrider bike slightly and also the severe lack of clearance for what are supposed to be off road vehicles ..At least the Outrider has kind of chopper/drag bike appeal to it - these things in their own way are kind of cool I guess. There is nothing cool about go karts. ESP not when they are excessively wide! It looks so out of place in anything but a mario cart meme.

they're not excessivly wide. if they where any narrower the marines couldn't sit in them while having room for machinery.
seriously man, if you don't like them just say "I don't like them" quit with the hyperbole

BrianDavion wrote:
...they're not excessivly wide. if they where any narrower the marines couldn't sit in them while having room for machinery.
seriously man, if you don't like them just say "I don't like them" quit with the hyperbole

Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!

Spoiler:

That makes it better.

Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.

The Salt Mine wrote:

Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.

not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.

not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts

Yeah if only they didnt have all those land speeder engines sitting around collecting dust since primaris cant fit their fat behinds in them.

Floating numarine tanks are silly. This atv kart is shameful.
Not as bad as flying jump pack restartes with auto cannons, tho.

The Salt Mine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.

not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts

Yeah if only they didnt have all those land speeder engines sitting around collecting dust since primaris cant fit their fat behinds in them.

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

The Salt Mine wrote:

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.

Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.

Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.

Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.

obviously the land speeder still has a use, but so's the ATV, honestly having a non hover alternative I'm sure is something sally players are happy about

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.



Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.

Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.

Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

The Taurox is a beauty compared to that little turd on 4 wheels (and i thought it was a spit in the face to Imperial Guard). I could only imagine the corpse emperor riding that ATV, Stephen Hawkins style. It sticks out like a sore thumb and its beyond saving, only thing good on it is the gatling gun, and thats cheaper as bits or 3rd party. It really saddens me that people are buying it, because it rewards bad behavior id say.

cody.d. wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.

Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.

Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.

Can you source any of that? Are Land Speeders loud? Have they no recoil compensation? Do they need special places to land? Can a Land Speeder crew not park a Land Speeder and dismount? That looks like a lot of assumptions you're making.

A Terminator can fire an Assault Cannon. A Land Speeder has a lot more mass and momentum than a Terminator.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.

Spoiler:

“Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubber tread on the bottom, swiveling on a ball joint. As the wheel rolls, the feet plant themselves one at a time, almost glomming into one continuous tire. If you surf over a bump, the spokes contract to roll over it. If you surf over a pothole, the rubber prongs probe its asphalt depths. Either way, the shock is thereby absorbed, no thuds, smacks, vibrations, or clunks will make their way into the plank or the Converse hightops with which you tread it. The ad was right - you cannot be a professional road surfer without smartwheels.”

Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.

"Smartwheels" and "smart shocks" don't help if your vehicle's main hull is scraping the ground when the shocks are fully extended.

The fundamental problem here, though, isn't about being able to technobabble your way out of it. You can technobabble your way out of anything if you try hard enough. The problem is that we the players have some understanding of the difference between an ATV and a go-kart, and the vehicle looks like a go-kart. It looks silly because it doesn't look like it should do the job it claims to do, even if you can come up with some convoluted technobabble explaining why it actually can.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.

Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.

Spoiler:

“Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubber tread on the bottom, swiveling on a ball joint. As the wheel rolls, the feet plant themselves one at a time, almost glomming into one continuous tire. If you surf over a bump, the spokes contract to roll over it. If you surf over a pothole, the rubber prongs probe its asphalt depths. Either way, the shock is thereby absorbed, no thuds, smacks, vibrations, or clunks will make their way into the plank or the Converse hightops with which you tread it. The ad was right - you cannot be a professional road surfer without smartwheels.”

Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.

"Smartwheels" and "smart shocks" don't help if your vehicle's main hull is scraping the ground when the shocks are fully extended.

can we stop claiming every new vehicle "lacks sufficant clearance and/or suspension" when that's true of literally every tank in 40k just about?

 Insectum7 wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:

Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate

They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.

oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.

Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.

Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.

Can you source any of that? Are Land Speeders loud? Have they no recoil compensation? Do they need special places to land? Can a Land Speeder crew not park a Land Speeder and dismount? That looks like a lot of assumptions you're making.

A Terminator can fire an Assault Cannon. A Land Speeder has a lot more mass and momentum than a Terminator.

Well, you're right to an extent. I'm making assumptions based on current day technology. Those thrusters on the back do look rather loud, and it can be assumed to generate the thrust they're going to generate heat and noise.

For recoil, it's certainly possible. But we rarely associate imperial vehicles with recoil compensation as much as just brute forcing their way through it. Works for plains due to forward thrust, but they fire almost exclusively forward.

Looking at the underside of the Landspeeder those nubbly things look fairly fragile, i'm assuming it'd be pretty bad to have weight on them. And the gravplates they used to hover are usually described as being fairly fragile. You'd imagine some sorta specialized docking platform/cradle right? Like a plane without landing gear.

BrianDavion wrote:
...can we stop claiming every new vehicle "lacks sufficant clearance and/or suspension" when that's true of literally every tank in 40k just about?

We can stop claiming new vehicles lack sufficient clearance and/or suspension when GW hires a sculptor who has seen a tank before instead of having only heard them described.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
...Well, you're right to an extent. I'm making assumptions based on current day technology. Those thrusters on the back do look rather loud, and it can be assumed to generate the thrust they're going to generate heat and noise.

For recoil, it's certainly possible. But we rarely associate imperial vehicles with recoil compensation as much as just brute forcing their way through it. Works for plains due to forward thrust, but they fire almost exclusively forward.

Looking at the underside of the Landspeeder those nubbly things look fairly fragile, i'm assuming it'd be pretty bad to have weight on them. And the gravplates they used to hover are usually described as being fairly fragile. You'd imagine some sorta specialized docking platform/cradle right? Like a plane without landing gear.

In animated sources (DoW, the Ultramarines movie, that kind of thing) Land Speeders at rest are still hovering, kind of like Star Wars landspeeders that are still a few feet off the ground when parked.

The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.

 Cybtroll wrote:
The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.

I don't see them flooding the secondary market unless/until they're in a boxed set. People are either buying them for themselves because they like the army, or they're not buying them at all. They're not a Flavor Of The Month at this point. The Onslaught version isn't bad but basic SM Bikes will outpace it quickly, Erads already outpace the MM version. So the new Army every month competitive players aren't going to churn through them I suspect.