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greatbigtree wrote: I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.
Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.
Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.
Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/01/05 22:48:50
greatbigtree wrote: I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.
S5 AP1 may not sound like much, but when you're rerolling all hits and wounds, plus doing mortals on the charge, they can do some not inconsiderable work. There's a reason you pay the smidgeon of points to upgrade from Crisis Suits to Crisis Bodyguards.
That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).
I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.
That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).
I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.
It's the nature of the beast. Enclaves especially rely on their strats to make up the army's inherent flaws.
Farsight *can* work, but only 4 attacks at d3 damage means you need to pick your targets carefully. Him with a fusion blade Coldstar and a vet cadre are fun to smash people with (and do lean into the style of play that 9th heavily incentivizes), but there's no margin for error. Scrag the drop and charge, and you're toasted.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/06 05:04:49
That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).
I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.
It's the nature of the beast. Enclaves especially rely on their strats to make up the army's inherent flaws.
Farsight *can* work, but only 4 attacks at d3 damage means you need to pick your targets carefully. Him with a fusion blade Coldstart and a vet cadre are fun to smash people with (and do lean into the style of play that 9th heavily incentivizes), but there's no margin for error. Scrag the drop and charge, and you're toasted.
I'm building this for my local play anyway, not looking for super competitive so will probably lean into the trio mentioned above.
greatbigtree wrote: I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.
Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.
Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.
Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.
I was referring to vetren crisis body guards with Advance targeting, i would agree fusion blades aren't good but that was not what the post was about in anyway.
It was about stacking Farsight and a vetran boadyguard unit as about the most viable beatstick Tau have. It's not ideal but it can throw a number of people off when you play your army 100% counter to how they expect.
Fundamentally the codex isn't compatible with 9th but it doesn't seem like the new one is being released soon so we have to do what we can with the codex we have.
greatbigtree wrote: I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.
Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.
Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.
Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.
I was referring to vetren crisis body guards with Advance targeting, i would agree fusion blades aren't good but that was not what the post was about in anyway.
It was about stacking Farsight and a vetran boadyguard unit as about the most viable beatstick Tau have. It's not ideal but it can throw a number of people off when you play your army 100% counter to how they expect.
Fundamentally the codex isn't compatible with 9th but it doesn't seem like the new one is being released soon so we have to do what we can with the codex we have.
Yeah thats a decent beatstick if you get forced into it (defensively in mellee its a serious CP hog, so be careful).If you use Shadowsun, her guardian drone is not sept or model type locked, so free 6+ FNP.
I was looking at something worse for fun, a greater knarloc (or 3) + kroot shaper, + 3dice charge stratagem. Considering the horrible armor saves... its not anything more than a weak glass cannon, and really hard to get the OOP model anyhow.
I kinda like 4 hammerheads (1 is longstrike) with shadowsuns guardian drone hidden behind one and out of los. 6+ FNP tanks. Its such a weak trick and easily countered if your opponent sees what you are doing, but if you survive turn 1. Also need to deploy your hammerheads behind a ruined wall (-1 to be hit) and then you can really block los to your cowering drone. It can tank in mellee a little bit.
some points changes too. Drones up to 20pts (doesn't differentiate). Piranhas down to 43pts. Devilfish down to 70pts.
Since drone cost isn't included in commander data sheets, they are now free upgrades? Really weird.
bullyboy wrote: some points changes too. Drones up to 20pts (doesn't differentiate). Piranhas down to 43pts. Devilfish down to 70pts.
Since drone cost isn't included in commander data sheets, they are now free upgrades? Really weird.
Barring an FAQ, it means drones are back in a big way. As-written (depending on your interpretation, which is why the FAQ is entirely needed), every unit that can take drones as add-ons either cannot take them, or gets to do it for free.
Not to say its not a hellacious fuckup, and that 20 point drones when its eventually fixed wont mean that drones are priced to the point of absolute uselessness, but for now, enjoy your free drones.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/07 17:46:46
Barring an FAQ, it means drones are back in a big way. As-written (depending on your interpretation, which is why the FAQ is entirely needed), every unit that can take drones as add-ons either cannot take them, or gets to do it for free.
Not to say its not a hellacious fuckup, and that 20 point drones when its eventually fixed wont mean that drones are priced to the point of absolute uselessness, but for now, enjoy your free drones.
Yeah, it's a huge cluster-feth currently, which sucks as I'm in that process of planning and buying.
All unit drones look to be free add ons, currently, which I cannot believe is correct.
Separate drone units are expensive as hell and make no sense (gun and marker up 100%)
High Outburst cannon on coldstar is now free too, but you could replace it for a regular burst cannon for +8pts, lol.
Smart Missile Systems seem to have dropped in points for most units which also gave me these point changes:
Hammerhead -15
Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle -20
Broadside w/ High Yield Missile Pod -15
Devilfish -23
All tactical drones being 20 points is pretty brutal. That is going to hurt T'au significantly.
*Edit* If the whole drone add-ons are free(which is how it is written) I think this will be a boost to drones, but I am basing my opinion of the price jump on my other opinion that they did not do that intentionally. Hopefully I am wrong about that, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 18:10:15
Huh, I see that now. Definitely encourages more attached drones than separate units, just because of points.
Yep, it looks like things like devilfish and piranha will have to add the drone cost from the bottom. Would be nice if the pdf actually told you to do that, lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 18:36:29
Why is the Riptide now base 261 points from 245 but Plasa Rifles don't appear to be an option? They were 16 points, are they included by default now?
SMS and Fusion Rifles have gone from 30 to 14 points, do these replace the 16 points Plasma Rifles, as in SMS and Fusion is cheaper or taken in addition to making it 275 total?
If the cost isn't listed it means it's free (or rather baked into the base cost of the unit).
Costs for other options are increases from there.
So the reason a Riptide has gone up 16pts is because the plasma rifles are now free and baked into the cost.
Similarly, the reason the fusion rifles have gone down 16pts is because they're now an upgrade on top, rather than an exchange.
Sazzlefrats wrote: Maybe they really do have drones baked into the cost of the vehicles.... if thats the case, why are burst cannons +8pts? They have always been che
I'm not trusting my re-read about the baked in cost. We're frelled
I don't think thry are either
Though at this point I'm also pissed that drones added to units don't count for WWSWF but combat squads and custodes going lone wolf counts aslong as 1 of them survive.
Going back the The Eight (I know, I know), if I end up using Torchstar, bravestorm and shavastos as a separate crisis team in a regular army (so not characters), it doesn't seem like a terrible use of points.
146pts total. Decent against light infantry I suppose.
Just not really wanting to magnetize, and think that starting out with The Eight would be a fairly quick way for me to get the army on the table, but then also thinking about how to utilize the sub optimal builds in the future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/09 15:15:11
I think ATS for AP-3 already feels a bit like overkill. Its probably not the worst thing if you encountering a lot of Marines, but I don't think its optimal. I think you'd prefer another plasma or flamer instead.
I think triple flamer - or 2*flamer/ATS has legs. Not exactly tournament winning - but you should get a decent number of hits easily enough as well as decent overwatch/Greater Good. At 40 points a model its not breaking the bank.
Also think triple plasma is respectable damagewise. Compared with say immortals you have a comparable number of shots at a higher point of S and AP (although 6" less range). Although I think the base BS4+, vulnerability to 3/D6 damage weapons and negligible assault capability hurts more than the soft stats of 8" move, fly and deep strike. There are some buffs you can apply to boost this - but so can the Necron player.
Crisis loadsouts are one of the big "how WYSIWIG do you want to be" kits. I'd say they are what you want them to be and if people kick off they are probably bad people.
Yeah, with the latest points, crisis suits feel decent, though I have not had a chance to test them out; I was just list building so far.
I came up with a list that might have a chance, basically my old standby of Shadowsun+2 Ghostkeels+Stealth suits to start out mid-field, with a couple units of fire warriors and breachers for bodies, and then three squads of crisis suits with different loadouts to drop in, each bringing lots of gun drones. With the assault-focused meta to grab midfield, a blob of Tau sept firepower seems like a decent option--charge me and I get a free shooting phase!
I've been running FSE for a while on TTS, and had two games since the changes.
The biggest impact is Mont'ka, and that's why Farsight is in most of my lists.
I've run Gatling burst cannons, AFPs, CIB and flamers. I think I prefer the cheaper options - flamers or AFPs who can avoid direct fire when they drop down really well.
Nu Remoras are pretty good too for 60pts in FSE, they can drop lots of mortal wounds in the right matchups.
So I'm in the process of building my 5 vet crisis bodyguards for FSE. Each will have 1 ATS system, one will have an airburst launcher and iridium suit, others have a missile pod. Trying to decide on 3rd weapon. A suit with missile and ATS is already 50pts, so not sure how much more I should invest in each one. Keep it cheap with a flamer, or double down with another missile pod? The airbust iridium suit will probably just get a flamer or support system since he will be taking fire.
Downside about flamers is that it seems a waste on a BS3+ unit. Maybe burst cannin better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/08 01:05:37
bullyboy wrote: So I'm in the process of building my 5 vet crisis bodyguards for FSE. Each will have 1 ATS system, one will have an airburst launcher and iridium suit, others have a missile pod. Trying to decide on 3rd weapon. A suit with missile and ATS is already 50pts, so not sure how much more I should invest in each one. Keep it cheap with a flamer, or double down with another missile pod? The airbust iridium suit will probably just get a flamer or support system since he will be taking fire.
Downside about flamers is that it seems a waste on a BS3+ unit. Maybe burst cannin better.
give em all ATS, AFP, & Missile Pods.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/11 05:27:07
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
If you're going vet then flamers are a waste as you say. They seem to work great in 3xflamer squads, 3 or 5-suit teams. Probably one of the strongest units Tau have right now for 9e. 2frag+ATS is an option too, with the relic giving you some really nice support fire (Richard Siegler was a fan of this set up when he was playing FSE at the start of 9e.)
I quite like 3 vets with ATS and gatling burst too for some spikey cheap goodness.
Basically, if there was one unit in the whole game you were gonna break out the magnets for, it would be Crisis Suits...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/14 16:43:58
OK, so I finally finished building my 2000pts Tau list. It's not perfect by any means, but barring a few drones (recon drone etc), it uses every model I own which is a huge plus for starting out.
I will probably drop the rail rifles tbh, look cool but not sure I'll use them.
Obviously I'm not going to just sit back with this list, but not sure where I'd start to make a few cuts in the future. I guess it will probably do until we see a new codex.
I posted a list in the army list section and quickly realized my understanding of Tau is not good enough for actually posting a list, yet.
As I am new to Tau and never had to play against or with them, some odd ideas circle in my head.
I already read this thread until here, so I got a fair idea of what is considered a "best chance" to give the opponents a good fight (and finally loose in the end anyway ^^).
I also read / heard on Youtube about using brecher teams (incl. 5++ drone) in devilfish - maybe accompanied by a Ethereal (Leadership, 6+++) - to capture objectives.
But when I calculate the points for this, you end up paying more than 200p.
And only to get a team on an objective during your 2nd turn.
Therefore I thought about using 5 modell units of Stealth Battlesuits for capturing those objectives instead of said breacher teams.
pros: T4
3+ armor save
-1 to hit
not blast vulnerable if taken as 5 model unit
same amount of wounds
can occupy objective from turn 1 on regardless who starts
cheaper than the breacher/devilfish setup (especially if accompanied by Ethereal)
fewer models = not as vulnerable to morale tests (unless Ethereal along breachers)
-1 Ap possible and still cheaper
4++ possible (but expensive!)
cons: no cheap 5++
vulnerable to damage 2+ at less models
no obsec
less models for determing objective against non obsec units
no dakka from devilfish
breacher = more dakka at close range/ overwatch
no grenades
less strategem options
Did I forget anything?
This way the following lists have come to my mind (after some corrections thanks to replies on my previously posted army list *ehem*):
1. take the center objectives via their Infiltrator ability with the Stealth Battle Suits .
2 hope to hold those objectives longer (2 rounds maybe?) than any Fire Warrior unit could, as now opponents hit me there as bad as I hit them with my BS4+ *grin*
3. Coldstar Commanders with crazy movement + Ghostkeel via Infiltrator take aim in first turn for tough things or units generally left in the back, forcing the opponent to divide his attention between Stealth Battle Suits on objectives and the hard hitting nuisance in his back.
4. both Coldstar Commanders have a certain protection for staying power: one 5++ ...the other has a 4++
5. Ghostkeel should have a certain resitance with his -1 to hit and 4++ to keep him alive for a round or two, too?
6. Crisis Battle Suits and the two Pulse Carbine Fire Warriors (really fearsome, I know...) move in as 2nd liners, giving support to the Stealth Battle Suits.
7. The Tetras and the Marker Drones distribute some marker and try to negate deep striking in inconvenient spots.
8. The Pulse Rifle Fire Warrior unit holds the objective in my deployment area.
9. The Broadsides do what they probably always do: stay back and give fire support.
- Tau sept should help to discourage charges with weaker units .
- Tau sept commander has move after shoot and 5+++ (MW) instead of normal 5+++
- only 2 units of Stealth Batllesuit units
- Ghostkeel might go for objective instead of hunting heavies in opponents back, because only have 2 Stealth Battlesuit units
- Crisis Bodyguards x6 with 1 more Attack each/ +2 move and missiles instead of cyclic ion blaster to get full effect of custom sept
- one fewer Strike team
I have several questions concerning those proposed army lists and the codex in general:
1. What warlord trait are you preferring? Somehow none of them really convinces me.
2. Why are all those "reroll 1 to hit": Through Boldness Victory warlord trait, Cross-linked stabilzer jets, Aggressive Footing Farsight Abilty (kind of). Tau has at least two strategems which give markerlight counters along with all the drones etc, handing out counters as well. 1 counter = reroll "1 to hit", isn't it? So just bad codex design or any actual use?
3. How sensible is it to add drones to a strike/ breacher team, if it is not maxed out yet? Or do you only these drones if team is maxed or if you want to get a marker drone?
4. How many Markerlight shots does a Tau list need (especially marker drones)?
5. Should I remove the drones from the commanders, as they cannot keep up with them anyway?
6. Where are shield drones best added?
7. In case of above Crisis Bodyguards is it better to add third missle pod or improve AP by an additional -1 via Advanced targeting system to a total of -3?
8. Should the Stealth Battlesuits take the shield generator instead of the Advanced targeting system?
9. Another consideration due to skchsan hint is to exchange the Farsight Enclave of the first option through a custom sept upgunned/hardened warheads. I would have to kick one commander and add a 2nd Ghostkeel instead, though...but freeing points to some extent.
Maybe I should mention, that my buddy runs mostly Death Guard, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angel, Space Wolf, Genestealer Cult and Imperium. And a bit Sororitas ... and a bit Orcs...and a bit Eldar ...some Tyrannids....some AdMech too, I think ....no Drukhari so far, though. (that left me Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Necrons and now Tau as my 4th army )
Oh, and Tau caught me especially with its Battletech likeness, so I preferably use those Mech units and no Kroot or such.
Cheers,
Amaurosis
Edit: text wall gone
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/05/01 10:00:38
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