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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




ccs 794986 11019028 wrote:
I understand what you're saying. But no, you are wrong about it being better to be unhappy vs looking foolish concerning a hobby. Because you still look (and worse, are) foolish - for persisting in making yourself unhappy. Why? Why would you want to be unhappy? That's the opposite of what these hobbies are for!


Being unhappy seems to the natural state to be in. In general people tend to be happy for a short time, and some never. Don't think it is a case of wanting to be unhappy, people just are unhappy and that is all.

Just to pick up on this one as well... Look foolish to who?

to myself mostly, but there is also parents, specialy my stepdad or my sister. Now it is better, because I don't go to school with the guys that convinced me to start w40k, because schools are closed, but in 8th getting laugh on daily was not fun. And did not make me feel smart. Plus it is useful, with the army I can go out, and my mom can think I see people and have friends, and I don't have to visit doctors besides. Although this year it wouldn't matter anyway, because doctors stopped seeing people face to face.

It's a hobby that you do for fun. It's not a prison sentence. If it's not fun, stop. You may lose out slightly if you can't sell your stuff for what it cost you - but if that is a sum of money that you can't afford to lose, then you couldn't really afford to take up Warhammer in the first place.

I have big problems with stopping to do stuff, when I fall in to a patern it just stays. I still have to eat my food the way, I learned to eat it at like 7. It is stupid, but I found out the hard way, that even trying to change the behaviour just ends with me being sick and needing to take more meds. Ain't worth it in the long run.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Crispy78 wrote:
...It's a hobby that you do for fun. It's not a prison sentence. If it's not fun, stop. You may lose out slightly if you can't sell your stuff for what it cost you - but if that is a sum of money that you can't afford to lose, then you couldn't really afford to take up Warhammer in the first place...


You got a way to give people the time back that they feel like they wasted spending it on 40k?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267 
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





 AnomanderRake wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
...It's a hobby that you do for fun. It's not a prison sentence. If it's not fun, stop. You may lose out slightly if you can't sell your stuff for what it cost you - but if that is a sum of money that you can't afford to lose, then you couldn't really afford to take up Warhammer in the first place...


You got a way to give people the time back that they feel like they wasted spending it on 40k?


if you do, don't post it. It's a trillion-dollar idea lol

I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect


I think the root point here is that a lot of the people who did like 40k at one point feel that it's been yoinked out from under them. This does vary by community, but plenty of places (here on Dakka, at least one FLGS community near me) have decided that tournament-standard 9th needs to replace all of wargaming and if you don't like it you can just pike off, because 9th is an improvement over 8th (and don't even mention the horror that was 7th), or because they'd love to try homebrew content/oldhammer/other wargames but there's no point because nobody else would ever play, or because all of the screwed-up things GW does to their customer base are obviously the industry standard/best way to run a game, or because 9th is obviously the best way forward for wargaming and there's no way anyone could possibly disagree because (tournament winrate statistics). It's exhausting, frustrating, depressing, and pretty dehumanizing to be constantly told that your hobby has been objectively improved by mutating into something you dislike.

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

You'll notice further up the page when I gave my personal response to the OP's question I didn't say "I'd tell my younger self to find a better hobby", I said "I'd tell my younger self to recognize that GW's rules are never going to improve and start doing his own earlier". I think there's still value and fun to be had out of the hobby, even if I do dislike 9th. I do, however, understand the people who think that they'd have been better off not getting emotionally invested into what's turned into a source of pain/frustration.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Yes, I would get into 40k again if I had it to do over again. Although I've had problems with every edition I've played (been playing since 3rd), I've always had fun. Nothing is perfect, and I'll continue to complain about problems I see with the game, but I don't plan to stop playing because of them.
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




Southampton, UK

 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect


I think the root point here is that a lot of the people who did like 40k at one point feel that it's been yoinked out from under them. This does vary by community, but plenty of places (here on Dakka, at least one FLGS community near me) have decided that tournament-standard 9th needs to replace all of wargaming and if you don't like it you can just pike off, because 9th is an improvement over 8th (and don't even mention the horror that was 7th), or because they'd love to try homebrew content/oldhammer/other wargames but there's no point because nobody else would ever play, or because all of the screwed-up things GW does to their customer base are obviously the industry standard/best way to run a game, or because 9th is obviously the best way forward for wargaming and there's no way anyone could possibly disagree because (tournament winrate statistics). It's exhausting, frustrating, depressing, and pretty dehumanizing to be constantly told that your hobby has been objectively improved by mutating into something you dislike.

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

You'll notice further up the page when I gave my personal response to the OP's question I didn't say "I'd tell my younger self to find a better hobby", I said "I'd tell my younger self to recognize that GW's rules are never going to improve and start doing his own earlier". I think there's still value and fun to be had out of the hobby, even if I do dislike 9th. I do, however, understand the people who think that they'd have been better off not getting emotionally invested into what's turned into a source of pain/frustration.


Yeah I can see that being a bad situation, and to a long-term hobbyist it may sound flippant to say 'hey if you don't like it any more then quit'.

My response was really aimed specifically at Karol, who, as I understand it from previous posts:
- has only played since 8th edition
- is young and not wealthy, so buying in was a big investment of a one-off lump sum
- was more or less conned into buying a second hand Grey Knights army which was at the very bottom of the barrel strength-wise
- plays in what sounds like the most toxic WAAC alpha-male environment imaginable
- overall, has been unhappy with 40k basically since starting

Personally I don't play in stores or competitions, just with a small group of friends. And while we've kept pace with releases and are now invested in 9th, I'm sure at any point we could have agreed to stick on a certain edition if we had wanted to.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





In all honesty, from reading his, Karols, last post, I don't think any that are going to respond to him here will help him. It seems like his issues go pretty deep and being conned into buying Grey Knights is just one of a number of things. I don't think any of us can or would make him happy with the hobby or the choice or even leaving it behind. It's one of the toughest things to learn in life, but sometimes you can't help someone, even if you'd like to.

I hope things get better for him generally and in 40k more exactly but change comes from within and only really if someone wants to improve their current state. I mean when someone says that life is generally just un happy I don't think some words on the net will bring light into that dark night.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Yeah.

If anything, I'd tell my younger self to not get distracted by haters into shittier, far inferior games like Infinity, Warmachine and all that crap and just stick with 40K.


I heard about Warmachine on this thread and it seems that it came and fizzled away


They had a poorly-executed launch for the 3rd edition that involved big nerfs to a lot of popular tournament lists and an ill-organized theme force system right around the same time 8e 40k came out. The competitive community that had left 40k for Warmachine decided to give 40k another chance, and never really came back. PP (the makers of Warmachine) has been bleeding design people (there's a whole ex-PP people studio now called Atomic Mass Games) and the game's barely treading water.


Which was a shame because Warmachine was the first thing to come along that challenged GW's status as the 400 lb gorilla in the room and I suspect some of the impetus for the stuff I think is an improvement in 8th and 9th came from having real competition.

Whatever else 40k has going for it the designers have never entirely got past the game's rpg roots and you can see it in the focus on narrative play and rules writing that presumes you'll figure out what they meant. Warmachine carved it's market share out by having a diametrically opposed focus, it was aimed squarely at competitive play, hence avoiding codex creep by releasing new units for every army at once and the Caster Kill mechanic that meant you could be down on points and losing on attrition and still win the game if you could engineer an assassination run, and I liked that.

Unfortunately PP bungled Mk 3 and now if you want to reliably show up at your LGS and get a pick-up game going 40k is your only option in a lot of places again, and GW will go back to not giving a [censored] about competitive balance or at least having missions that reward good play and not just good list building.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 11:35:51


   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect


I think the root point here is that a lot of the people who did like 40k at one point feel that it's been yoinked out from under them. This does vary by community, but plenty of places (here on Dakka, at least one FLGS community near me) have decided that tournament-standard 9th needs to replace all of wargaming and if you don't like it you can just pike off, because 9th is an improvement over 8th (and don't even mention the horror that was 7th), or because they'd love to try homebrew content/oldhammer/other wargames but there's no point because nobody else would ever play, or because all of the screwed-up things GW does to their customer base are obviously the industry standard/best way to run a game, or because 9th is obviously the best way forward for wargaming and there's no way anyone could possibly disagree because (tournament winrate statistics). It's exhausting, frustrating, depressing, and pretty dehumanizing to be constantly told that your hobby has been objectively improved by mutating into something you dislike.

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

You'll notice further up the page when I gave my personal response to the OP's question I didn't say "I'd tell my younger self to find a better hobby", I said "I'd tell my younger self to recognize that GW's rules are never going to improve and start doing his own earlier". I think there's still value and fun to be had out of the hobby, even if I do dislike 9th. I do, however, understand the people who think that they'd have been better off not getting emotionally invested into what's turned into a source of pain/frustration.


that's not what I was saying at all lol

I said that if he had fun then his time in the hobby wasn't wasted. But if he never had any fun, then life is too short to continue doing something that brings no joy, especially if it's just a hobby. Not sure why the whole tangent came about. 40K will never be perfect and it will always have its issues. Like the guy below said if you just focus on the stuff you like, the negatives will just be irrelevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
In all honesty, from reading his, Karols, last post, I don't think any that are going to respond to him here will help him. It seems like his issues go pretty deep and being conned into buying Grey Knights is just one of a number of things. I don't think any of us can or would make him happy with the hobby or the choice or even leaving it behind. It's one of the toughest things to learn in life, but sometimes you can't help someone, even if you'd like to.

I hope things get better for him generally and in 40k more exactly but change comes from within and only really if someone wants to improve their current state. I mean when someone says that life is generally just un happy I don't think some words on the net will bring light into that dark night.


true, there seem to be more things going on than 40k. Whatever he has going on, I hope he can sort it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yes, I would get into 40k again if I had it to do over again. Although I've had problems with every edition I've played (been playing since 3rd), I've always had fun. Nothing is perfect, and I'll continue to complain about problems I see with the game, but I don't plan to stop playing because of them.


yeah exactly, like I know its perfect but I dont plan on quitting. Granted, if the game knew such a thing as balance, I might be willing to be more vested with more armies, but I am happy sticking with the 5 I got, which might get narrowed down to 3 in a short time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/02 13:12:27


 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Toronto, Canada

gundam wrote:
so you dont play any more at all? sold off all of your armies?


I still have my Tau, CSM, and some of the GK/DKoK. However, I haven't played in several years as I hate the direction the game is going - lack of customization in both wargear and the figures themselves (all new releases are monopose and childish). I'll probably sell half of my figures this year and just stick with building 1/350 scale warships as they interest me more.

It also doesn't help that the players at the GWs/LGS near me are just cringy, uninteresting people.

   
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 Eldarain wrote:
Probably not. If I did I'd hope I could stick to one faction.


how many factions did you end up and what keeps you from downgrading to one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gossipmeng wrote:


I haven't played in several years as I hate the direction the game is going - lack of customization in both wargear and the figures themselves (all new releases are monopose and childish). I'll probably sell half of my figures this year and just stick with building 1/350 scale warships as they interest me more.

It also doesn't help that the players at the GWs/LGS near me are just cringy, uninteresting people.


That is true, for the money, especially the bigger models should have plenty of MORE options for poses

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 23:48:45


 
   
Made in se
Member of the Malleus





No 40k regrets. Quite happy with all my 40k stuff. I once traded a baneblade for 5 metal inquisitorial stormtroopers. NO REGRETS.

His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





gundam wrote:
If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k?

I would not...not get into 40k. I would get into 40k.

...I hate questions posed as a negative.

Or what would you have done differently?

If I could do it all again, I'd probably split my attentions better between armies. Right now I have obscene amounts for two armies, more than I'll ever use in a single game. I wish I had more varied armies so I could change things up a bit more (or, more accurately, have more partially-completed armies).
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





 Cheex wrote:
gundam wrote:
If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k?

you can go for the meme of double negative or just say "I would get into 40k." like you did lol

Or what would you have done differently?

If I could do it all again, I'd probably split my attentions better between armies. Right now I have obscene amounts for two armies, more than I'll ever use in a single game. I wish I had more varied armies so I could change things up a bit more (or, more accurately, have more partially-completed armies).


thats fair, I do wish I hadnt gone with as many units for 3 armies I have. I should have capped my armies at 3-4k points each
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter





 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect


I think the root point here is that a lot of the people who did like 40k at one point feel that it's been yoinked out from under them. This does vary by community, but plenty of places (here on Dakka, at least one FLGS community near me) have decided that tournament-standard 9th needs to replace all of wargaming and if you don't like it you can just pike off, because 9th is an improvement over 8th (and don't even mention the horror that was 7th), or because they'd love to try homebrew content/oldhammer/other wargames but there's no point because nobody else would ever play, or because all of the screwed-up things GW does to their customer base are obviously the industry standard/best way to run a game, or because 9th is obviously the best way forward for wargaming and there's no way anyone could possibly disagree because (tournament winrate statistics). It's exhausting, frustrating, depressing, and pretty dehumanizing to be constantly told that your hobby has been objectively improved by mutating into something you dislike.

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

This post resonates with me so perfectly.
I loved 40k. I still love everything about 40k except the rules. But there's just no impetuous to change the game at all, and indeed I get shot down quite spectacularly for ever suggesting anything of the sort.
   
Made in fr
Stabbin' Skarboy






 kirotheavenger wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

This post resonates with me so perfectly.
I loved 40k. I still love everything about 40k except the rules. But there's just no impetuous to change the game at all, and indeed I get shot down quite spectacularly for ever suggesting anything of the sort.


I feel for you, because I was feeling the same during 6th and 7th, loving all aspects but hating the rules. Because the current ruleset is enjoying quite a lot of success, I think nothing but minor tweaks here and there will occur for the foreseeable future. At least during 6th and 7th I knew that things would not last (GW was really being challenged by xwing and warmachine/hordes, so I knew they would do something drastic). I only expect a change to secondary objectives and point balancing in 2021 (and 2022 probably). We are in for 2 years of a very "stable" (or "stagnant" depending on how much you want change to happen) 40K, IMHO.

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
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Made in ch
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I'd have grabbed more stuff from the vraksian renegade line, and also should've gotten more games in with the IA13 ruleset for them...

Other than that, no, it's a great hobby, allbeit the "game-direction" aka rules turn ever more lackluster


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 addnid wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

This post resonates with me so perfectly.
I loved 40k. I still love everything about 40k except the rules. But there's just no impetuous to change the game at all, and indeed I get shot down quite spectacularly for ever suggesting anything of the sort.


I feel for you, because I was feeling the same during 6th and 7th, loving all aspects but hating the rules. Because the current ruleset is enjoying quite a lot of success, I think nothing but minor tweaks here and there will occur for the foreseeable future. At least during 6th and 7th I knew that things would not last (GW was really being challenged by xwing and warmachine/hordes, so I knew they would do something drastic). I only expect a change to secondary objectives and point balancing in 2021 (and 2022 probably). We are in for 2 years of a very "stable" (or "stagnant" depending on how much you want change to happen) 40K, IMHO.


This, especiallly Kiro's part is something i have myself issues with, in regards to discussions of (war)game vs War(game) systems and the implications for balance it has.
Truth is, the best way to enjoy 40k is if you have a close knit group that is open for experiments and not just pickup/ tournament hammer, especially for the older guard which expects a degree of "realism" for 40k

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/04 10:44:36


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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I would, but with perfect foreboding, I would have bailed out earlier and saved myself some money and trouble.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
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gundam wrote:
If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k? Or what would you have done differently?

Despite all the frustrations I have with GW, I wouldn't change much about getting into 40k. I've made a lot of good friends over the years thanks to it and it helped me find friends when I was moving around a lot. Despite the drain financially I'd say overall it's had a positive influence on my life. I'd probably do a few little things differently like not buy a certain model at a certain time or sell a certain army (I sold a huge black templars army for $200 back in 8th and regretted it ever since) but overall I'm happy.

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Another reason I wouldn’t change it?

Lockdown. Without models to paint, topics to discuss, books to read, I’d probably go out of my tiny mind.

Instead, I’m doing video based painting sessions, which is giving me the social element I’ve been otherwise missing (not just in hobby either. Being stuck in-doors when your home has become your work place is quite the mental health challenge)

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

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I'd ultimately do it again. I do not regret my 3rd-to-early-5th career, save for buying a good number more models than I actually wound up using only to phase over to 3d printing last year. Multiple boxes of sprues and bits sit there in such overall disarray to the point that if I'm looking for a specific small part even for a mostly GW model, it's easier to just print another than find it.

I fully regret getting excited for and actually attempting to organize and play 9th over TTS. For a variety of reasons, some of which were the result of the game being in an unfinished state, and some of which were the personalities involved, it was a complete fiasco.

I would have been substantially happier just making and painting wacky Chaos marines. Those video painting sessions sound like a brilliant idea.
   
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Nuremberg

I agree with the sad feeling when the game moves away from what you would like. For me it is mostly stuff to do with rebasing and some issues with no liking the sort of Command Point based system the game seems to run on (just not really my cup of tea for a wargame). And I am also just tired of IGOUGO because it has a lot of problems and isn't a very good way to organise a mass battle game.

But 40K still acted as a gateway to miniature wargaming for me, and there are other options out there. It is daunting to go from a fully fleshed out community to doing things your own way. I will definitely admit that since I dropped out of the GW ecosystem I have had an order of magnitude fewer games. But all the games I have had have been fun and interesting. And I am slowly building up a group of interested and likeminded people to play with (but yeah, this did take literal years).

Having full creative control means I can take all the stuff I love from 40K and still use it. So I have no reason to regret getting into the game. I milldly regret a few of the decisions that GW has made in the last while, but honestly that was always the case. In 2e I wanted to play Squats, only to find out they were discontinued. In 3e I was actually mostly pretty happy I would say, but then in 4e I felt like I was waiting forever for my Orks to be updated. In 5e, I was pretty happy for most of the edition, though I disliked the introduction of Knights and Fliers as I felt they messed up the scale of the game. 6th and 7th seemed to double down on that stuff, so I stayed away.

8th/9th seems to have brought in a lot of changes that I agree with - the return of negative modifiers I think is a good thing, the use of wounds for vehicles rather than the wonky subsystem, with degrading functionality as the wounds decrease is also a good move. Lots of 8th is quite good, but fundamentally I guess I don't like the CP system and I also dislike the smaller battlefield and amplified leathality. I would give it a go, but I expect people would whinge at me for having my dudes on 25mm and I am just not gonna change that. Bit of a trivial reason to sign out of the ecosystem, but once you've already been out for two editions it is a bit harder to put up with stuff like that in my case at least.

   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






I would gladly have spent every red cent on any other thing that is consistently of better quality and more consistently enjoyable.

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so. Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/07 20:47:10



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in se
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Sweden

I would do most of it again, but i would skip out on those 3-4 finecast kits i tried. Kept buying into their lies that initial launch problems were solved. Those bastards lied to me....

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Id not get into it. Was mostly happy until the marine spam. Now Im left with a broken and barely useable army (1ksons) and no fix on the horizon.
   
Made in nl
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Would I not get into it? No never, I'd do it all over again. I hadn't played wargames in years before I found out a colleague played and invited me over to watch a few games. I fell in love again despite only playing LoTR and WHFB before I decided to start a 40k army because that's all they play here.
Only regret I have is not starting DG immediately. The game itself and GW especially has many faults but the entire social aspect draws me in. I know people now I'd call friends I would otherwise never know because I started playing again. The hobby has a very social aspect to me that I wouldn't want to give up.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Its a rhetoric question.
I've started at the beginning of the 3rd edition and the game was much more manageable as it is now.
It was rather easy to enter the tournament scene quickly.
Today, the game is too intricate. Newbies can hardly enter.
With my knowledge about the current edition, I wouldn't enter again and possibly would play golf.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Lance845 wrote:

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so.


Damn them for luring me into a hobby I've that I've enjoyed for 30+ years, met friends through, made a living off of, etc. Hate that sorta trap....

 Lance845 wrote:
Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.


Ok, I'm looking at it. What of it? All I see is a product that I don't really have any need for. Not using it doesn't interfere with me playing this game. As such I'm content to ignore it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/09 19:44:36


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





 Lance845 wrote:
I would gladly have spent every red cent on any other thing that is consistently of better quality and more consistently enjoyable.

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so. Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.


So have sold off your armies or are they collecting dust?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gitdakka wrote:
I would do most of it again, but i would skip out on those 3-4 finecast kits i tried. Kept buying into their lies that initial launch problems were solved. Those bastards lied to me....


finecast for the price is highway robbery


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Table wrote:
Id not get into it. Was mostly happy until the marine spam. Now Im left with a broken and barely useable army (1ksons) and no fix on the horizon.


Did you sell your army or are you waiting for a fix sometime before the end of time? BTW im a big 1ksons fan and its sad how GW trashes army to drive the cycles of different armies. I understand game changes but making armies unusable (ie. Tau, 1ksons etc) its a slap to the face to the people that spend thousands of hours and dollars buying and putting together their armies


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Its a rhetoric question.
I've started at the beginning of the 3rd edition and the game was much more manageable as it is now.
It was rather easy to enter the tournament scene quickly.
Today, the game is too intricate. Newbies can hardly enter.
With my knowledge about the current edition, I wouldn't enter again and possibly would play golf.


So would you live the hobby or would you stay involved at a minimum level due to all the time and money invested into it?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/10 19:40:52


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





ccs wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so.


Damn them for luring me into a hobby I've that I've enjoyed for 30+ years, met friends through, made a living off of, etc. Hate that sorta trap....

 Lance845 wrote:
Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.


Ok, I'm looking at it. What of it? All I see is a product that I don't really have any need for. Not using it doesn't interfere with me playing this game. As such I'm content to ignore it.


I can also see by yours and other responses the hobby and casual side of gaming being a rewarding experience.

But I can see the competitive side of the hobby being both a money trap and a time sink, just like this store owner said so on FB in a competitive 40k group.

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2021-01-10 at 11.41.05 AM.png]
competitive is a money trap

   
 
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