Babylon 5 Remastered now available

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**warboss**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
Fifteen quid extra and I can only get series 1? Nah, I’ll keep watching the DVDs. The CGI isn’t as distracting as the 90s fashion anyway.

You take that back right now or I'll shoulder pad check you with my oversized double breasted jacket!

**gorgon**

Overread wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
gorgon wrote:
and this aspect of B5 is wildly overrated, BTW

Yep, its not even entirely true. I mean, sure JMS planned out the plot from the beginning, but between a number of cast departures and changes, having seasons cancelled and then restarted midway through filming at least once, studio interference mandating changes to the plot and story, etc. the end product deviates pretty dramatically from what he originally planned in quite a few ways.

The key is that at the time a lot of TV series and almost all sci-fi were based around the repeat event of the week formula. Star Trek Original Series was Alien of the week with no interconnecting elements and very limited character growth. Many many others were the same. B5 did have alien of the week themes, but there was a huge amount of interconnected elements going on through its whole series. The idea that predictions and story events setup in the very first episodes would not be resolved until the final seasons was groundbreaking for its time. Plus they were handles that were intended to be developed and thus received proper support throughout. Eg the prediction that he'd become Emperor wasn't just a throw away line in one episode; it was a key part of his characters plot that was brought up many times and developed, adjusted through the time.

Yes things changed; heck a massive change was losing the lead actor who was pinned as a major cornerstone of the series story. But the story was worked around those changes and eventualities. The reality changed the end goals somewhat, but the fact was the end goals were part of the story structure.

We honestly don't start to see story telling like that in TV again for a very long time. Even many modern series still go for the repetitive theme of the week. Drop into NCIS adn barring actor changes through the years you can pretty much get up to speed in the first few moments unless its the first or last episodes of a season. Even when characters change the "role" is filled by another. If the Director dies there's a new Director etc...

Eh, you're just talking about series vs. serials. Serial storytelling has been around for decades. Hell, Flash Gordon in the '30s/'40s. Sure, film vs. TV...but it's still not nearly as groundbreaking as JMS devotees claim. See also basically every soap opera ever made. B5 has a LOT of soap opera elements.

**warboss**

True. But I think it's understood that we're referring to sci-fi tv shows when we laud the show for paving the way rather than ignoring linked short films played in a depression era theater or a historical documentaries series about a war for example. I agree though on the soap opera influences.

Had anyone seen b5 fan films btw? I did a quick search and only found a few CGI space battle scenes.

**Backfire**

gorgon wrote:

Eh, you're just talking about series vs. serials. Serial storytelling has been around for decades. Hell, Flash Gordon in the '30s/'40s. Sure, film vs. TV...but it's still not nearly as groundbreaking as JMS devotees claim. See also basically every soap opera ever made. B5 has a LOT of soap opera elements.

I feel this is not very accurate description of what B5 brought to the table, however. Serial storytelling as such was not unique in TV shows as you said, not even adventure/scifi shows (original BSG was pretty serial, for example, and TNG had some elements too). What B5 had as Tolkienesque attention to details and depth of the story and universe building which was unmatched in previous attempts, because it was not really seen necessary. TV shows were throwaway entertainment where viewers were happy to see engaging characters, some nice dialogue and cool special effects and scenes. Plots and mythologies were just an excuse to provide these things. With B5 they took the center stage and encouraged fans to involve themselves within the framework. It was the overall level of artistic ambition which made B5 groundbreaking, rather than having some unique never-before-seen individual aspect.

**Overread**

Even today many TV series don't reference much if anything beyond the season they are in. You get very little foreshadowing of things that might be 2, 3, 4 seasons away. Often as not the end of season episode will wrap most things up neatly unless they are expecting a second season at which point they either end of a cliffhanger or they seed details then. Basically the next season isn't in the story as such until your near the end of the current.

That's a big difference to Babalon 5 where they reference multiple events that might not happen for many many seasons.

The western media seems to dislike leaving undeveloped plotlines. You really notice this when you watch anime where many might well end without resolving all the details even if it was their intended spot (a good few get so far and then complete their current main story but never fully finish- sometimes they don't get the second season etc...).

**Backfire**

TV shows tend to constantly live on the chopper's block, waiting for axe to fall, so it somewhat limits how far ahead you can plan, unless you are David Lynch. Joss Whedon said that he always tried to design the seasons so that the season finale could work as a series finale in the case the show was cancelled. Buffy did have some story arcs which were build up over multiple seasons, but usually the storylines were concentrated on single season.

Another trick is X-Files/Lost school of mythology building, where you leave everything so vague that you can add layers upon layers of new stuff depending on how many seasons get produced.

Mangas and animes based on them are often products of a single mind who has a strong vision how story proceeds. Both of the above approaches are used there too.