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Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

well, our main source of energy is to boil water and use the expansion of the gas to move something

even the most efficient solar power plants are used that way (to heat up a liquid and power a turbine)

while we understand how most things work, we still don't know how to use it

and assuming that other also don't know and just use heat up liquids to power a turbine with 60-80% loss of energy to generate electricity (or that they use electricity at all) at the same time they should be able to travel thru space is naive at best

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/17 20:30:21


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Whatever tech aliens have will work within physical laws. There's no plausible reason we couldn't understand it.

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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Actually I can see a point in even our own technology where we will exceed our practical limitations.

Which isn't to say we wouldn't be able to comprehend a theory of how something might work, but that the actual knowledge would rely on so much advanced detail in several fields at once that we'd end up with machines where each "part" is understood by one person, but not the others in the team. Building to a point where we could have technologies and machines that rely on machines themselves to comprehend the whole.

At least when you factor in the finite amount of learning time the average human has and their capacity to learn.




Of course we might well see a rise of technologies that allow us to expand our capacity to learn, store and access information which could then not only speed our learning but vastly extend our capacity to process data.

Imagine it you could just download kung fu on a whim

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Whatever tech aliens have will work within physical laws. There's no plausible reason we couldn't understand it.


as someone from acient greece already had enough knowledge of physics to understand a steam engine and electricity

but showing him a nuclear power plant from afar, would he be able to figure out how it works and what it is supposed to do?


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Whatever tech aliens have will work within physical laws. There's no plausible reason we couldn't understand it.


We can't explain where most of the universe is, cannot explain what electricity is, precisely how gravity works and great swathes of stuff connected to black holes, just for starters.

On a cosmic level we are a dumb species and making assumptions about how much we'd understand of a society that might have millennia of advancement on us is just nuts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/17 21:50:03


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







You're definitely moving the goalpost there but we already live in a time where we discover new forms of matter and energy that are beyond our natural senses because math says they have to be there.

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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I don't really see how, in response to an assertion that we'd understand something constructed by a more advanced society, pointing out a few of the long list of "known unknowns" we're aware of, let alone the many thing we're yet to discover we have no idea about, is moving the goalposts?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Whatever tech aliens have will work within physical laws. There's no plausible reason we couldn't understand it.

Didn't a wise man once say that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic?

For all our scientific progress to get to our current state of understanding very little about the universe around us, there is absolutely no reason to expect that we would have the slightest chance of understanding the technology of an alien race even a century or two ahead of us.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 John Prins wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
A Dyson sphere as a monument? Around a star that will eventually destroy itself and likely the sphere along with it?


Not all stars go nova.
Can you elaborate? I'm missing the connection between what I said and your comment. Are you expressing agreement?
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
A Dyson sphere as a monument? Around a star that will eventually destroy itself and likely the sphere along with it?


Not all stars go nova.
Can you elaborate? I'm missing the connection between what I said and your comment. Are you expressing agreement?


Stars don't necessarily destroy themselves. Or at least not in a way that would destroy the surrounding material. Small stars like ours become red giants, then white dwarfs, then brown dwarfs as they cool down. This would leave a Dyson Swarm around it intact if it was built at the appropriate distance, and this process would take a long, long, long time. Nothing's forever, but if you wanted to leave a monument to your existence that other starfaring races could find, there are stars that will last long enough for this purpose.

If you really want a long-haul monument, you park it on an Iron Star (yes, on it, as Iron Stars are basically inert stellar cores of iron), and it'll last until some alien species decides to use the iron to feed their black hole farms long after the stellar formation period of the universe.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Or you instead build a Penrose sphere, basically a Dyson Sphere but around a Black Hole instead. Black Holes are going to last a heck of a lot longer than stars. Yes, technically they are different things, but close enough for comparison sake.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

but if you to that we won't be able to see that sphere from earth as we cannot detect the energy difference between visible light and infared light

which makes the whole point why such a sphere is important for us obsolete

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 John Prins wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
A Dyson sphere as a monument? Around a star that will eventually destroy itself and likely the sphere along with it?


Not all stars go nova.
Can you elaborate? I'm missing the connection between what I said and your comment. Are you expressing agreement?


Stars don't necessarily destroy themselves. Or at least not in a way that would destroy the surrounding material. Small stars like ours become red giants, then white dwarfs, then brown dwarfs as they cool down. This would leave a Dyson Swarm around it intact if it was built at the appropriate distance, and this process would take a long, long, long time. Nothing's forever, but if you wanted to leave a monument to your existence that other starfaring races could find, there are stars that will last long enough for this purpose.

If you really want a long-haul monument, you park it on an Iron Star (yes, on it, as Iron Stars are basically inert stellar cores of iron), and it'll last until some alien species decides to use the iron to feed their black hole farms long after the stellar formation period of the universe.
Well I said the dyson sphere was likely to be destroyed, not guaranteed. Going up to red giant status would certainly do it, unless the sphere was built outside venus' orbit. And the point is all stars die, one way or another.

And we're still completely ignoring how much material it would take to build such a sphere. Having a whole sector cleared out of solid planets would probably be more visible than the sphere itself.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Only if someone bothered to actually survey each and every system so they could go "Hey, why are there no planets in this area?", in which case they probably already found the dyson sphere just through stumbling upon it.

You can only detect planets around a distant star if their orbit happens to come between the observer and the star at the moment they are observing it, and the planet is of a certain size. So not detecting planets around a distant star is perfectly normal. Heck, we don't even know how common planets actually are outside of our own solar system.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Hm, what about rearranging stars into a giant symbol? Like a smiley face or middle finger. 'HEY! Other galaxy! Yeah! We rearrange stars! Suck it!'
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Haha.. imagine if the grandest achievement and parting shot of the human species was a giant McDonald arches or Amazon arrow logo. Other sentient species puzzling over what it could possibly mean for the next billion years.

I liked the Peter F Hamilton idea in his Judas Unchained novel; the sphere is there not to protect or preserve something, but to keep something inside!

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