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Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





Texas

 Da Boss wrote:
Is Texas not a democratic state? I mean this in the general sense. Do the citizens of Texas not elect their leaders?
If in a democracy we are poorly lead, we bear some responsibility for that. Of course, you can say that the system is not very democratic really and so on, but ultimately changing the system is also in the hands of the people so this only slightly dilutes the responsibility.


Maybe I am severely ignorant, but I consider myself fairly affluent and knowledgeable in politics and current affairs. However, I do not know the specific energy policy of every single person I voted for or those that sit on those committees.

I guess I am dumb and you know every stance from every angle of every elected official in your location...

While not piling on you specifically, many posters on here seem to take the same view, so I would question their knowledge of every person sitting in the position to make these kinds of choices. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

Am I alone here in calling bull???

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 Laughing Man wrote:
Voss wrote:
To minimize adverse environmental impacts, this Order limits operation of dispatched units to the times and within the parameters determined by ERCOT for reliability purposes.

Dispatched units (work teams?) aren't going to be sent out unless they meet ERCOT's 'reliability standards' (whatever those are), and we're disguising this under a concern for 'environmental impacts.' The referenced to 'the times' probably sets limits on their working hours. (easily excused here because working at night or in poor weather might require generators that would cause additional environmental impacts.

Consistent with good utility practice, ERCOT shall exhaust all reasonably and practically available resources, including available imports, demand response, and identified behind-the-meter generation resources selected to minimize an increase in emissions, to the extent that such resources provide support to maintain grid reliability, prior to dispatching the Specified Resources.

Basically we'll use whatever means necessary, so long as the end result looks reliable and low-emissions on paper. But the wording (prior to dispatching) allows for any delays they see fit and (exhaust all) suggests they can cost whatever the market will bear as long as the excuse is 'low-emissions' and 'reliable.' Given what's happening with ridiculous bills, I assume this is what's being used to 'justify' hitting consumers with ridiculous bills.

ERCOT shall provide a daily notification to the Department reporting each generating unit that has been designated to use the allowance and operated in reliance on the allowances contained in this Order."

This one is relatively easy: the Department (texas state department of energy, I assume) will get daily reports on generating units (ERCOT's various energy facilities) if and only if they're using the 'allowances' (resources) this Order covers. Otherwise the state government can back the feth off.


To me this sounds like a company trying to justify poor service and delays in restoring service by blaming environmental laws. The fact that its written pretty much exclusively in weasel words certainly doesn't lower my suspicions.

That's not what it says though. This is the Federal Department of Energy authorizing ERCOT to exceed federal emissions standards to meet reliability requirements, which means consistent uptime for customers. As long as they're doing so, they need to make reports to the feds on how they're doing so (the last paragraph) on how they're doing so. The second paragraph says that even though they're allowed to exceed those emissions standards, they need to do their damnedest to make sure they don't violate them by exhausting all reasonable measures beforehand (which also have to be reported in the daily updates).

You aren't actually disagreeing with me here in any real regard. You're just not taking the logical next step with how companies like this tend to consistently exploit this sort of legislation- I care a lot less about their technical requirements than how I expect them to behave while 'technically' adhering to those requirements. I've been in a position to observe too many government contracts and what contractors can get away with while still being 'in compliance.'

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/23 18:38:01


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Laughing Man wrote:
Voss wrote:
To minimize adverse environmental impacts, this Order limits operation of dispatched units to the times and within the parameters determined by ERCOT for reliability purposes.

Dispatched units (work teams?) aren't going to be sent out unless they meet ERCOT's 'reliability standards' (whatever those are), and we're disguising this under a concern for 'environmental impacts.' The referenced to 'the times' probably sets limits on their working hours. (easily excused here because working at night or in poor weather might require generators that would cause additional environmental impacts.

Consistent with good utility practice, ERCOT shall exhaust all reasonably and practically available resources, including available imports, demand response, and identified behind-the-meter generation resources selected to minimize an increase in emissions, to the extent that such resources provide support to maintain grid reliability, prior to dispatching the Specified Resources.

Basically we'll use whatever means necessary, so long as the end result looks reliable and low-emissions on paper. But the wording (prior to dispatching) allows for any delays they see fit and (exhaust all) suggests they can cost whatever the market will bear as long as the excuse is 'low-emissions' and 'reliable.' Given what's happening with ridiculous bills, I assume this is what's being used to 'justify' hitting consumers with ridiculous bills.

ERCOT shall provide a daily notification to the Department reporting each generating unit that has been designated to use the allowance and operated in reliance on the allowances contained in this Order."

This one is relatively easy: the Department (texas state department of energy, I assume) will get daily reports on generating units (ERCOT's various energy facilities) if and only if they're using the 'allowances' (resources) this Order covers. Otherwise the state government can back the feth off.


To me this sounds like a company trying to justify poor service and delays in restoring service by blaming environmental laws. The fact that its written pretty much exclusively in weasel words certainly doesn't lower my suspicions.

That's not what it says though. This is the Federal Department of Energy authorizing ERCOT to exceed federal emissions standards to meet reliability requirements, which means consistent uptime for customers. As long as they're doing so, they need to make reports to the feds on how they're doing so (the last paragraph) on how they're doing so. The second paragraph says that even though they're allowed to exceed those emissions standards, they need to do their damnedest to make sure they don't violate them by exhausting all reasonable measures beforehand (which also have to be reported in the daily updates).

Understand something about energy policy in Texas.

When it comes to where the energy comes from - solar, wind, nuclear, coal, oil - the Federal government decides how it gets prioritized, not the state. Texas may have it's own grid, but they need permission from the Department of Energy to turn on a reactor.

The first electrons delivered to consumers always come from renewable resources. It's about 10% of the supply. From there, they make decisions about reliable sources of energy based on what's available. January - March is usually when maintenance is happening because consumption is down. You can't just turn a reactor on when the weather gets bad, and winterization isn't something to be taken lightly. It's not a matter of insulating a bunch of pipes, it's a matter of making sure they also work when it's 120 degrees.

I listen to people talking about winterizing and elected officials in Texas and the need for reform and really wish the discussion was informed by actual energy policy. Easy to point fingers, hard to deal with reality.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 MDSW wrote:
I am with Frazzled just outside of Austin - the absolute worst part was no TV or internet and I slipped on the ice going out to repair a leaking valve and cracked my wrist. But, all good and while not getting into politics or blame, it was a total cluster f@#k...

I think the DFW area gets a bit colder, so may have been slightly better prepared, but I have been in the Austin area for over 20 years and this one was a real shocker. We did get weather reports saying it was coming for almost a week or more.

Seven inches of snow is unbelievable, literally unbelievable here. Del Rio, on the border with Mexico, got 11 inches during the last of the five storms.

On the flipside, I had to kick on the AC for a few minutes upstairs yesterday as it was pushing 80 inside. Thats what we're used to.





-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 MDSW wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Is Texas not a democratic state? I mean this in the general sense. Do the citizens of Texas not elect their leaders?
If in a democracy we are poorly lead, we bear some responsibility for that. Of course, you can say that the system is not very democratic really and so on, but ultimately changing the system is also in the hands of the people so this only slightly dilutes the responsibility.


Maybe I am severely ignorant, but I consider myself fairly affluent and knowledgeable in politics and current affairs. However, I do not know the specific energy policy of every single person I voted for or those that sit on those committees.

I guess I am dumb and you know every stance from every angle of every elected official in your location...

While not piling on you specifically, many posters on here seem to take the same view, so I would question their knowledge of every person sitting in the position to make these kinds of choices. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

Am I alone here in calling bull???
Uhh, I DEFINITELY research the positions of people I vote for. Obviously a lot of people don't do that, which is what leads to problems in the first place. Which is the point.
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.

Btw, I am only really responding to the point about only the officials being responsible. Obviously the storm is an unprecedented event.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/23 20:42:11


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.



ERCOT is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by existing members.
Texas Public Utility Commission is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by the Governor and Legislature.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.

Btw, I am only really responding to the point about only the officials being responsible. Obviously the storm is an unprecedented event.



I will only blame voters if they continue to support the same folks AFTER something like this happens without those responsible being held accountable in anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/23 21:30:47


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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Frazzled wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.



ERCOT is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by existing members.
Texas Public Utility Commission is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by the Governor and Legislature.
How does one become Governor or part of the Legislature in Texas? Do those simply fall out of the sky or are they elected? If those people are elected into these positions by the population of Texas then you may be correct on a technicality but it's an useless distinction, especially if it leads to people freezing to death.

People vote for politicians because they approve of their policies and one should at least have an idea where these people stand when one's voting for/against them. Adults don't get to say "I didn't know" when they vote for incompetent fools.
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Some phenomenal gak takes in here fellas. Something bad has happened, and a lot of Texans are in a really rough spot atm because of a whole slew of issues, brought to a head by a rare weather event. This sucks. People have been absolutely floored by unforseen expenses in terms of house damage, energy prices, and indeed, deaths. Bagging on them for * hurr durr, their fault for not voting like I would have, a big brain smart guy * is fething NASTY. And it's like, there's a large enough population in TX that easily hundreds of thousands of people DIDN'T vote for the current government, and even those who did, like many many others, didn't forsee this particular kind of disaster happening - because that's the very nature of disasters.

It's perfectly possible to vote for a candidate in good faith, and then have them make a policy decision that you personally don't agree with in a way that is done behind closed doors, or reactively - like, would you demand every American poster defends the intervention in Iraq? Every British poster defends the continued selling of arms for use in Yemen?

Fun fact, every poster here has a little flag next to their name, and every single state that those flags represent has done something reprehensible and gakky during whatever current political administration it's under. That's just the cold fething reality of how nation states work, and no-one has ever asked to be a citizen of the place they were born under. You wanna get real edgy? The relationship between states and their subjects is never consensual, and it's totally a protection racket and we're all victims of it.

Just because your government does stupid gakky things doesn't mean that you are a stupid gakky person, nor do you deserve the consequences of reactive policy decisions made beyond your direct control, especially in this case, with an act of god. Double especially because people have had their homes ruined, and even died. Get off your fething high horses, and maybe try to figure out why a bit of humanity is so hard to dredge up for you.

Anyway, politics, sorry mods, sorry Matt Swain, not sorry to the creeps who think that civilians should be blamed for a policy mis-step that has cost lives, absolute garbage take.

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Made in us
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Mario wrote:

People vote for politicians because they approve of their policies and one should at least have an idea where these people stand when one's voting for/against them. Adults don't get to say "I didn't know" when they vote for incompetent fools.


Is this true though? To me it looks completely backwards; people get told by the politician why they should support their policies. The rest is just optics and how your lizard brain perceives them.

I also don't think anyone would have given the slightest bit of attention to x politician's energy grid policies.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I think this line of conversation is getting increasingly political, so probably best to leave it be.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Mario wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.



ERCOT is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by existing members.
Texas Public Utility Commission is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by the Governor and Legislature.
How does one become Governor or part of the Legislature in Texas? Do those simply fall out of the sky or are they elected? If those people are elected into these positions by the population of Texas then you may be correct on a technicality but it's an useless distinction, especially if it leads to people freezing to death.

People vote for politicians because they approve of their policies and one should at least have an idea where these people stand when one's voting for/against them. Adults don't get to say "I didn't know" when they vote for incompetent fools.


Your argument lacks merit.
ERCOT IS CHOSEN BY ITS OWN MEMBERS.

PUC is chosen in staggered terms by the Governor and legislature. The governor is elected. This is a second level appointment.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Ok, the argument that wind turbines must fail in cold weather is false. They work in near arctic conditions quite well if operated and equipped properly.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, the argument that wind turbines must fail in cold weather is false. They work in near arctic conditions quite well if operated and equipped properly.


They work in literal antarctic conditions if operated and equipped properly.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Frazzled wrote:
Spoiler:
Mario wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.



ERCOT is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by existing members.
Texas Public Utility Commission is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by the Governor and Legislature.
How does one become Governor or part of the Legislature in Texas? Do those simply fall out of the sky or are they elected? If those people are elected into these positions by the population of Texas then you may be correct on a technicality but it's an useless distinction, especially if it leads to people freezing to death.

People vote for politicians because they approve of their policies and one should at least have an idea where these people stand when one's voting for/against them. Adults don't get to say "I didn't know" when they vote for incompetent fools.


Your argument lacks merit.
ERCOT IS CHOSEN BY ITS OWN MEMBERS.

PUC is chosen in staggered terms by the Governor and legislature. The governor is elected. This is a second level appointment.

So I started reading about about ERCOT and found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Reliability_Council_of_Texas#2011_blackouts

In early February 2011, a major winter storm impacted Texas; freezing and extreme cold at natural gas pipelines and wells, as well as generating units (such as coal-fired power plants and wind turbines) caused power outages across Texas affecting 3.2 million customers. ERCOT and its regulator, the Public Utility Commission of Texas, failed to adopt a mandatory standard for preparing electricity infrastructure for such occurrences (winterization), despite recommendations from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC). Texas's failure to prepare left the state vulnerable to winter-storm blackouts, including the major disaster that occurred ten years later in February 2021.[21]
So how does that work? Can somebody explain this? I don't even care anymore if my argument has merit with how much of a mess this is. They just exist, did nothing when they should have a decade ago, then for some reason nobody can affect them, somehow nobody's responsible, and everybody just shrugs their shoulders every X years when things freeze and people die. That doesn't make anything better even if it explains that somehow the government that was voted into power isn't directly responsible.

I don't know where this falls on the "free market <-> government agency" spectrum but it feels like they are not exactly accountable to anybody and somehow that's accepted in Texas. WTF? All of this reads like an actual Kafkaesque mess.

What can actually be done here? It happened before and this time it's apparently even worse but the best defence for this system is "nobody voted for them (directly)". How are things even allowed to be like this? Why do people accept this for so long? If somebody lost family members in this catastrophe, who is held accountable?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






In the long term, voting. No matter the position, there is a trail of authority eventually leading to an elected official.

In the short term, contact local figures of authority (the governor seems a good place to start) directly and voice complaint. A hundred thousand messages reading the same thing gets attention.
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






So much for watching out for fellow gamers in this thread.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Mario wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Spoiler:
Mario wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The officials obviously also bear responsibility. More than the voters. But I would never completely absolve voters of responsibility in a democracy. It's infantilizing them to do so, I would perceive it as a kind of insult.



ERCOT is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by existing members.
Texas Public Utility Commission is not elected by the Texas citizenry. They are appointed by the Governor and Legislature.
How does one become Governor or part of the Legislature in Texas? Do those simply fall out of the sky or are they elected? If those people are elected into these positions by the population of Texas then you may be correct on a technicality but it's an useless distinction, especially if it leads to people freezing to death.

People vote for politicians because they approve of their policies and one should at least have an idea where these people stand when one's voting for/against them. Adults don't get to say "I didn't know" when they vote for incompetent fools.


Your argument lacks merit.
ERCOT IS CHOSEN BY ITS OWN MEMBERS.

PUC is chosen in staggered terms by the Governor and legislature. The governor is elected. This is a second level appointment.

So I started reading about about ERCOT and found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Reliability_Council_of_Texas#2011_blackouts

In early February 2011, a major winter storm impacted Texas; freezing and extreme cold at natural gas pipelines and wells, as well as generating units (such as coal-fired power plants and wind turbines) caused power outages across Texas affecting 3.2 million customers. ERCOT and its regulator, the Public Utility Commission of Texas, failed to adopt a mandatory standard for preparing electricity infrastructure for such occurrences (winterization), despite recommendations from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC). Texas's failure to prepare left the state vulnerable to winter-storm blackouts, including the major disaster that occurred ten years later in February 2021.[21]
So how does that work?

Welcome to the United States. Federal recommendations are just that, recommendations. Unless its passed into law, the 50 states (let alone independent bodies that operate various pieces of infrastructure and programs, have no obligation to actually accept that recommendation. And the US tends to walk softly around the divide between the 'federal gov't recommends to the states and the federal gov't mandates to the states,' for various historical & political reasons. There are a very tools and levers that get employed (Ie, 'you won't get federal highway money unless you do X' to influence states to accept recommendations, but the federal/state system just isn't set up to operate in the fashion you seem to expect. No one is legally responsible for not winterizing because no one was legally required to actually do it. They had the legal ability to say 'no, we don't need to adopt a mandatory standard' (Note- that's an important distinction. They didn't fail to do something mandatory, they decided against the recommendation to make it mandatory)

It should also be noted that most of the ERCOT board lives out of state, and most of them have resigned in the last week or so, which currently we for some reason accept as 'My bad, but you can't sue me if I just nope out of here.'

Now, the morality of the system and the rest of your questions are really beyond the scope of gaming forum with a no politics rule.
Can somebody explain this? I don't even care anymore if my argument has merit with how much of a mess this is. They just exist, did nothing when they should have a decade ago, then for some reason nobody can affect them, somehow nobody's responsible, and everybody just shrugs their shoulders every X years when things freeze and people die. That doesn't make anything better even if it explains that somehow the government that was voted into power isn't directly responsible.

I don't know where this falls on the "free market <-> government agency" spectrum but it feels like they are not exactly accountable to anybody and somehow that's accepted in Texas. WTF? All of this reads like an actual Kafkaesque mess.

What can actually be done here? It happened before and this time it's apparently even worse but the best defence for this system is "nobody voted for them (directly)". How are things even allowed to be like this? Why do people accept this for so long? If somebody lost family members in this catastrophe, who is held accountable?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/25 01:51:35


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

Voss wrote:
Welcome to the United States. Federal recommendations are just that, recommendations. Unless its passed into law, the 50 states (let alone independent bodies that operate various pieces of infrastructure and programs, have no obligation to actually accept that recommendation. And the US tends to walk softly around the divide between the 'federal gov't recommends to the states and the federal gov't mandates to the states,' for various historical & political reasons. There are a very tools and levers that get employed (Ie, 'you won't get federal highway money unless you do X' to influence states to accept recommendations, but the federal/state system just isn't set up to operate in the fashion you seem to expect. No one is legally responsible for not winterizing because no one was legally required to actually do it. They had the legal ability to say 'no, we don't need to adopt a mandatory standard' (Note- that's an important distinction. They didn't fail to do something mandatory, they decided against the recommendation to make it mandatory)

It should also be noted that most of the ERCOT board lives out of state, and most of them have resigned in the last week or so, which currently we for some reason accept as 'My bad, but you can't sue me if I just nope out of here.'

Now, the morality of the system and the rest of your questions are really beyond the scope of gaming forum with a no politics rule.

Less that the feds want to tread lightly, more that ERCOT was purposefully carved off from the rest of the US power grid in order to avoid the Interstate Commerce clause, and thus prevent the federal government from being able to regulate the ERCOT grid. Thus, the feds aren't legally allowed to enforce their weatherization standards that would have prevented both the 2011 disaster and this one. There's a few ways the feds can bypass that (as you mentioned, they can withhold funding, offer grants, or regulate externalities that effect other states), but for the most part the Texas grid is free to do whatever it wants.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Laughing Man wrote:
Voss wrote:
Welcome to the United States. Federal recommendations are just that, recommendations. Unless its passed into law, the 50 states (let alone independent bodies that operate various pieces of infrastructure and programs, have no obligation to actually accept that recommendation. And the US tends to walk softly around the divide between the 'federal gov't recommends to the states and the federal gov't mandates to the states,' for various historical & political reasons. There are a very tools and levers that get employed (Ie, 'you won't get federal highway money unless you do X' to influence states to accept recommendations, but the federal/state system just isn't set up to operate in the fashion you seem to expect. No one is legally responsible for not winterizing because no one was legally required to actually do it. They had the legal ability to say 'no, we don't need to adopt a mandatory standard' (Note- that's an important distinction. They didn't fail to do something mandatory, they decided against the recommendation to make it mandatory)

It should also be noted that most of the ERCOT board lives out of state, and most of them have resigned in the last week or so, which currently we for some reason accept as 'My bad, but you can't sue me if I just nope out of here.'

Now, the morality of the system and the rest of your questions are really beyond the scope of gaming forum with a no politics rule.

Less that the feds want to tread lightly, more that ERCOT was purposefully carved off from the rest of the US power grid in order to avoid the Interstate Commerce clause, and thus prevent the federal government from being able to regulate the ERCOT grid. Thus, the feds aren't legally allowed to enforce their weatherization standards that would have prevented both the 2011 disaster and this one. There's a few ways the feds can bypass that (as you mentioned, they can withhold funding, offer grants, or regulate externalities that effect other states), but for the most part the Texas grid is free to do whatever it wants.


As he says, welcome to the United States. Profit uber alles.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I think you people need to learn to accept a disaster for a disaster. If you applied this kind of cold politically rhetorical idealism to everything.

You'd condeem NYC for being unprepared for hurricanes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Sandy_in_New_York

OFC - who would do such a thing as build underground railroads that move people around when the whole city can flood. Keep in mind this is one city! 50ish people died from drowning!

There isn't a city planner on city plan concept that doesn't plan around average weather. My best friend is a plumber. You wouldn't believe the amount of extra work/ money that has to go into northern plumbing compared to plumbing in the south. It is just accepted that rare weather events will cause issues and they do.

IDK...maybe this is a problem. Wait...
https://nationalhomeless.org/tag/hypothermia/#:~:text=NCH's%20Winter%20Services%20report%20found,annually%20in%20the%20United%20States.

Just imagine what would happen if this kind of storm hit california. You think theyd have 100% power capacity? They cant even meet energy demands during normal weather conditions. With that homeless population too? Thousands would probably die. I wouldn't blame the state policy though...because disasters happen and that's why we call them disasters. They are rare unforeseen events.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Xenomancers wrote:
I think you people need to learn to accept a disaster for a disaster. If you applied this kind of cold politically rhetorical idealism to everything.

You'd condeem NYC for being unprepared for hurricanes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Sandy_in_New_York

OFC - who would do such a thing as build underground railroads that move people around when the whole city can flood. Keep in mind this is one city! 50ish people died from drowning!

There isn't a city planner on city plan concept that doesn't plan around average weather. My best friend is a plumber. You wouldn't believe the amount of extra work/ money that has to go into northern plumbing compared to plumbing in the south. It is just accepted that rare weather events will cause issues and they do.

IDK...maybe this is a problem. Wait...
https://nationalhomeless.org/tag/hypothermia/#:~:text=NCH's%20Winter%20Services%20report%20found,annually%20in%20the%20United%20States.

Just imagine what would happen if this kind of storm hit california. You think theyd have 100% power capacity? They cant even meet energy demands during normal weather conditions. With that homeless population too? Thousands would probably die. I wouldn't blame the state policy though...because disasters happen and that's why we call them disasters. They are rare unforeseen events.


New york does not cut itself off from a national power grid and sharing system just to give the finger to 'so'schlism" and to defy any efforts at federal standards to ensure power stability. Former new york governors do not go on tv and say that the people of new york should accept power outages and a few dozen deaths from cold and lack of power as a fair price to avoid 'fedrul gubmint reg joo lay shuns". New york does not give the finger to the rest of america then expect FEMA aid and bailouts when their own policies cause disasters.

See the differences?

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

I'm going to end this particular thread here.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
 
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