Switch Theme:

Could Lelith Hesperax defeat a custodes in melee?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Matt Swain wrote:
Hmm, Ok. Since celest has her guards, bigfoot brings a couple of her best followers to engage them.
During the fight it seems that lilly is winnin and celest in down, when lilly is struck from behind by one of her henchmen who brags will will claim hesperax was killed by celestine, then he killed the monkeigh and become a great champion.

While he's doing his bond villain reveal, the spirits of the fallen gemini infuse Celestine with their power and she strikes down the villain in mid maniacal laugh.

Lilly, wounded badly, summons her skyboard and grabs onto it as celestine steps in the deliver the killing blow, flying off vowing "Another day, Mon keigh!"

Celestine then mourns her fallen gemini and buries their bodies in a pair of deep depressions made in the ground by lelith's feet.

Umm...so Lelith would've killed Celestine in your scenario if not for that DE wannabe? Huh, interesting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 02:06:12


 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Void__Dragon wrote:
She shouldn't be able to block an attack from even an average Custodian and would have to dodge everything, because he is unironically probably somewhere in the ballpark of dozens of times more physically powerful than her. He could literally explode her skull with a single jab.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/eumqrb/could_anyone_send_me_an_excerpt_of_the_battle/
Well, a harlequin was able to trade blows with an average one, and that included blocking as it stated "trading parries and ripostes like for like". Perhaps the Custodian wasn't using his guardian spear when fighting the harlequin intruder, but still, I don't see blocking a blow from an average custodian being an issue. Although, that page from "The Beast Rises" wasn't initially intended to be a fight between custodes and harlequins, but the thing got printed and as far as I recall, remains canon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 03:02:19


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Right, an experienced and talented fighter can use glancing blows to "deflect" the attack, but still essentially block it. It's what made fencing a deadly form of swordsmanship. Take Brianne of Tarth vs Stabby Girl from game of thrones. A bastard sword vs a bastard's much smaller epee. The Epee wins because she's not using a lot of her strength in every single attack, and then is winded after 4 swings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 11:53:07


 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Well, if cultist chan can destroy an angry marine land raider with a thrown rock i guess Lelith can take down a custodes.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Matt Swain wrote:
Well, if cultist chan can destroy an angry marine land raider with a thrown rock i guess Lelith can take down a custodes.

Screw that comic and flick-the-thief, 40k fanfics and fan arts are the worst. But seriously though, how do you think the fight would go? Does it depend on the custodian guard or do you think the standard ones would best her alone. ((Besides the “muh, 40k lore is inconsistent as hell” argument))

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/10 08:22:28


 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Ok, there's one thing that the lore emphasizes but the game can't really handle. Experience.

I mean, how fething old is hesperax, for example? Is she hundreds of years old? Thousands? Tens of thousands? How long has she been fighting? How much reflexive experience does she have?

A lot of lore goes on about how marines have decades, centuries, to become experienced, how eldar have been around in some cases for millions of years, how much experience do they have?

In the game maybe they get a WB/BS of 2+, and maybe a reroll 1's. That's all the game can do to reflect that really, well maybe a few special rules too here and there.

But in a story of hesperax vs, a custode, she might have eons of experience and the custode might be a relative noob.

I mean, honestly, who do you want to win? Who does the writer want to win?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 03:28:00


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, there's one thing that the lore emphasizes but the game can't really handle. Experience.

I mean, how fething old is hesperax, for example? Is she hundreds of years old? Thousands? Tens of thousands? How long has she been fighting? How much reflexive experience does she have?

A lot of lore goes on about how marines have decades, centuries, to become experienced, how eldar have been around in some cases for millions of years, how much experience do they have?

In the game maybe they get a WB/BS of 2+, and maybe a reroll 1's. That's all the game can do to reflect that really, well maybe a few special rules too here and there.

But in a story of hesperax vs, a custode, she might have eons of experience and the custode might be a relative noob.

I mean, honestly, who do you want to win? Who does the writer want to win?

That’s the rub, but hey, if you read my previous post you’d know I kinda favor the golden bois because some of them have actual lore and personality (and frankly I like their designs better, more exotic I might add) whereas Hesperax is just a background dark elf-ish character with a sense of standby humor.
And since you asked about her age, I don’t really know the exact number but she aided Vect during his first coup or something like that.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




New York City

 Cognitive wrote:
Nah, you missed my point there, she actually cut through marine armor in the Silent Hunter (including a librarian’s wrist), and made those look like butter with her knives.



You know...I really dislike lore that says someone cut through someone else's armor. If armor can be just cut through willy nilly, then it defeats the purpose of wearing armor. Sure, there should be exceptions, but it should also come with a huge disadvantage, such as getting your blade wedged, and no longer being able to retrieve it.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, there's one thing that the lore emphasizes but the game can't really handle. Experience.
I mean, how fething old is hesperax, for example? Is she hundreds of years old? Thousands? Tens of thousands? How long has she been fighting? How much reflexive experience does she have?
A lot of lore goes on about how marines have decades, centuries, to become experienced, how eldar have been around in some cases for millions of years, how much experience do they have?
But in a story of hesperax vs, a custode, she might have eons of experience and the custode might be a relative noob.
I mean, honestly, who do you want to win? Who does the writer want to win?


I mean, you could have a decade or two of experience in every martial arts in the history of man, but you'd still lose a fight against a grizzly, unless you have an amazing technological or tactical advantage. I know eldar are very cunning, experienced, and deadly fast, but based on the lore available, I have a hard time seeing any Aeldari taking on a healthy Custodes 1 on 1 in a fair fight. The genetic/biological difference is much too great a hurdle.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 10:50:03


Fight for our dead! Death to their living! And claim them in the name of the Emperor!
Lego Warhammer 40,000. Someone make it happen. 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 LumenPraebeo wrote:
 Cognitive wrote:
Nah, you missed my point there, she actually cut through marine armor in the Silent Hunter (including a librarian’s wrist), and made those look like butter with her knives.



You know...I really dislike lore that says someone cut through someone else's armor. If armor cut be just cut through willy nilly, then it defeats the purpose of wearing armor. Sure, there should be exceptions, but it should also come with a huge disadvantage, such as getting your blade wedged, and no longer being able to retrieve it.

Ceramite armors and armors of a higher caliber got pierced and cut all the time, it’s not a rare thing. With a guardian spear or something, Vlaerian gutted down numerous CSM in meele, now how did you think our favorite shield captain achieve that? By always aiming to the head? Lmao he clearly tore through them like butter as well. Now return to the topic I don’t really see why you’re upset about her blades being able to do so, despite that she and other high tier DEs like Drazhar had cut through high caliber armor in an abundance of instances. Hell, just go see post #17 of the last thread.
It seems to me that you’re a bit biased and is somehow trying to disregard certain showings because of your obvious preference in a particular side. I get it, eldars are treated like punching bags most of the times but there are certain individuals with potent showings and weapons.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

I mean, you could have a decade or two of experience in every martial arts in the history of man, but you'd still lose a fight against a grizzly, unless you have an amazing technological or tactical advantage. I know eldar are very cunning, experienced, and deadly fast, but based on the lore available, I have a hard time seeing any Aeldari taking on a healthy Custodes 1 on 1 in a fair fight. The genetic/biological difference is much too great a hurdle.


Did you read my previous posts? Drazhar aka the fallen Phoenix Lord Arhra singlehandedly slaughtered a trio of Custodian Guards and a named Harlequin was able to kill a no name custodian during war of the beasts.
I’m not arguing anything (hell, I even argue for the Custodians multiple times in this long-ass thread), it’s just that I find your cluelessness of events that happened (and got printed nonetheless)...a bit annoying, to be frank.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/06/15 05:23:51


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: