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Made in nz
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker



New Zealand

 Gert wrote:
A couple of points Karol:
1 - GW evolved from some guys who made some games in their shed/living room. The corporation today is not the same as those guys and I'm pretty sure not a single one even works for the company. In the 70's it was just a distribution point for D&D and other traditional board games. It was only in the late 80's it started to fully focus on the Warhammer brand.
GW original founders were Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston. They were also did the Fighting Fantasy book series.
2 - There is a difference between taking inspiration from a previous product and fully copying an existing one. Someone making an animation called "Centurions" about "Space Warriors with Void Armour" who makes something similar to a SM but distinctly not a SM isn't getting GW's attention. Someone who makes an animation called "Astartes" with specific GW designs implemented and starts making money off of it, IS going to get GW's attention.
Using the term Astartes would actually be Trademark infringement. And making money off it (I think. I am not a lawyer) would mean its not fair use.
3 - "Aurelian" is a historical name and as such cannot be protected under IP. "Lorgar Aurelian" can because it is a separate entity and the name of a character that can be copyrighted. The name "Luke" is not copyrightable and anyone can use it. "Luke Skywalker" is a Star Wars copyrighted character so it cannot be used in another IP's product.
That would be Trademark infringement. You can't Trademark generic terms or terms that have become generic (like Scotch Tape)
4 - "Big City with lots of people" is not a copyrightable idea. The term "Hive City" is because it is distinct. Likewise, the design of the Arbites might be similar to the Judges but they are not the 2000 AD Judges. Also, GW tends to favour the use of Enforcers in its publications so it can avoid issues with an older OOP product sharing similarities with another brand.
Again that would be Trademark


Most of what we think of as Copyright law is actually Trademark law. Distribute copies of a digital White Dwarf is copyright infringement. Use small excerts for review/commentary etc, that's fair use. Make fan art/stories etc, that's fair use. Sell or make money from fan art that's trademark infringement (When GWs lawyers say "Ahem. Stop it."). I think, I am not a lawyer, copyright or otherwise. Its law so of course its stupid complicated. But I generally agree with the above.

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Thairne wrote:


Also, a C&D is not "meaningless" - but it is enough to scare single guys into submission if you dont want to fight a multi-million dollar company in a lawsuit about your hobby. Because they cant afford to fight that legal battle and have to afford it.
THAT is the consequence and by any means not "meaningless". As an author on BS, I know what would happen if our group received a C&D. We talked about it. We'd have to shut down because we could not afford to fight a battle for work we do for free.


A C&D is not a lawsuit, receipt of a C&D is not a guarantee that legal action will be pursued against you. Its a warning that if activity identified in the notice does not cease, that you *may* be sued or suffer further legal action pursuant to further investigation by the entity issuing you the notice. C&D notices are always fairly clear that legal action is not automatic, because the person issuing the C&D could otherwise be countersued for attempted coercion, likewise they could otherwise be countersued if they said that they would pursue legal action and then didn't.

I wouldnt call it malice as much as a very strong scepticism/pessimism. Its not that I think GW does it because its EVIL, but because they do not consider anything else but their own gains - which is just standard corporate stuff. So they're... lawful neutral.


Which is why these creators are about to have it made for them. Rumors are that GW will either be partnering with a major streaming service (i.e. Netflix, Hulu, etc.) in order to monetize the content. GW isn't paying these guys to bury their work, they are paying these guys because they want to make a lot of money, and these guys are going to make a lot of money with them in the process and build a resume that they can take to other studios in the future.

I do however think they were pressured into removing their content and transferring it to GW.
"You will take down this content, you have no right to use it, but we can work out a deal that better suits both parties".


More likely GW approached them with an offer that included transfer of ownership of whatever they created up front rather than demanding they remove it and then saying "but we'll hire you if you play nice".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 15:00:33


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 tauist wrote:
I don't understand all this fuss tbh. Anyone who deliberately makes a 40K animation is using GW's protected IP.. If they want a sustainable way to do their animations, they should come up with their own IP, it's as simple as that really. If the animation can't stand on its own merits without having "correct" looking weapons and uniforms etc, there was never any substantial story there to begin with.

I think the only "legit" way for these animations to remain available is for GW to "licence" them..



Exalted.

These people were prepared to go through all that effort to create quality animations, yet couldn't be bothered to send a quick email to GW to first ask for permission and guidence.

Considering they took without asking, GW is being pretty decent about it. They get to upgrade their project to an official level which will be seen by a larger audience, claim credit for their work, probably get paid and add GW to their resume which helps in obtaining other professional work.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

SamusDrake wrote:
These people were prepared to go through all that effort to create quality animations, yet couldn't be bothered to send a quick email to GW to first ask for permission and guidence.


As long as you're not trying to make money off someone else's IP, there is no obligation to ask for permission. Making a Youtube video is no different from writing a fanfic as far as copyright is concerned. You don't chastise fanfic writers for not approaching GW for permission and guidance, do you?

People thinking that they're not allowed to make any sort of content featuring IP owned by a big corporation is a Disney lawyer's wet dream, but that's not how it works.

Using copyrighted material for profit is another matter entirely and that's where GW will come down on you and have a legitimate case.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Something I haven't seen mentioned thus far is the question of what harm stuff like the Astartes videos actually inflict upon GW.

In the case of people either making models very similar to theirs (or outright stealing their designs) I understand the complaint because those models are directly competing with GW's and thus potentially stealing away their sales.

Likewise, I could see the complaint against people posting GW's rules/rulebooks online (even if they're not making money from it) - as it saves people having to buy their overpriced rulebooks and codices.

However, I'm far less clear on what harm or loss is inflicted on GW by someone making a fan video. It seems fair to say that the video isn't competing with any GW equivalent. Also, since it was entirely fan-made, GW spent no resources to produce it, so (unlike with rulebooks) it's not as if a product they normally sell is being given away for free. Given that it's free to watch, it's also not competing for customer revenue in the same way that copycat models might.

If anything, it seems like fans doing GW's job for them and making videos that get people interested in Space Marines and in the 40k universe.

Quick, shut them down before it's too late!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 15:46:10


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 vipoid wrote:
Quick, shut them down before it's too late!

The guy was not shut down, he was employed. Small difference, I know.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






There’s also something we need to consider.

40K and indeed all of GW’s fare is distinctive, yes? And that goes beyond the look. It’s also the feel of it.

You can’t make a Space Marine “League of Super Best Friends” type show, because that’s beyond the feel of it. It doesn’t matter how good the animation, art direction and voice acting is if it doesn’t feel 40K.

Astartes nailed all of it. Every last bit. It realised Marines in the right way, and in a visually striking manner. It’s absolutely brilliant in every conceivable way.

GW aren’t just looking to bring their stuff to the big or small screen. They’re looking to do it as a solid translation.

Hiring the guy behind Astartes was an absolute no-brainer. He has the skills and a clear love and understanding for the source material. Their approach here absolutely is the right one.

It is possibly slightly mercenary, as had Astartes not been brilliant, they probably just would’ve buried it. But what better way to find the right talent?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 kirotheavenger wrote:


In fact, they not only had the right to do so, they had the obligation to do so. If you don't enforce your copyright you risk losing it. If GW knowingly allowed Astartes to continue another company could easily claim in court that Space Marines should be in the public domain because GW allowed Astartes and you're not allowed to play favourites with the application of the law.


This is 100% false. Already been over this earlier in the thread. Please stop spreading this particular nonsense, it's just not true. You cannot lose your copyright by not enforcing it. That applies solely to trademarks, and even then, not in a way that would be compromised by someone making fan videos - the threat to a trademark is the name being applied to *other* similar products (e.g. Kleenex for all tissues), not from fan videos that use the trademarked term to refer to the actual trademarked product.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I'm not an expert, but I've done some digging on these topics.

There is a difference between copyright violations and trademark (i.e. brand) violations.

Discussions about a company needing to issue C&D and the like in order to "protect their brand" relate to trademarks. If I start a company called Games Dorkshop and sell a game called WarMonger 49,000 and use imagery and iconography that creates confusion among the product buyers and audience as to whose they are buying, that is a trademark violation and requires direct action to resolve.

Copyright violations apply to the replication of exact wording or works of art. Copying a rulebook line by line, reusing GW images directly without obtaining permission is a copyright violation.

Creating your own fan art or writings or videos that is wholly original artwork and that does not use any trademarked language or imagery is neither a copyright or a trademark violation.

I don't believe "astartes" is a trademarked term (it was the name of a greek goddess IIRC).

But of course, none of this might matter in the heat of the moment when you're faced with either complying with GW's wishes or else would need to hire your own legal team in order to reasonably fight back.






Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 catbarf wrote:

As long as you're not trying to make money off someone else's IP, there is no obligation to ask for permission. Making a Youtube video is no different from writing a fanfic as far as copyright is concerned.

Not it is not, because Youtube videos make money. Youtube doesn't exist out of good will, but because it is extremely profitable.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Tyran wrote:
 catbarf wrote:

As long as you're not trying to make money off someone else's IP, there is no obligation to ask for permission. Making a Youtube video is no different from writing a fanfic as far as copyright is concerned.

Not it is not, because Youtube videos make money. Youtube doesn't exist out of good will, but because it is extremely profitable.


First, Youtube videos only make money for the uploader if monetization is enabled. There's a secondary concern of Youtube's on-page monetization, but that's not the uploader's concern.

Second, copyright infringement is concerned with whether a product is depriving the copyright holder of income. The easiest way to prove this is to demonstrate that a for-sale infringing item is competing with a for-sale item from the rightsholder.

Want to go to court and argue that a fan-made video that isn't competing with any of your products is costing you money because they uploaded it to a website that happens to show ads? Good luck.

There are plenty of fanfics posted to websites that run banner ads.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






This is seeming more and more like black knights who have decided to hate on GW for this and the actual facts or logic are arbitrary since the conclusion was already reached.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 catbarf wrote:


First, Youtube videos only make money for the uploader if monetization is enabled. There's a secondary concern of Youtube's on-page monetization, but that's not the uploader's concern.


No, it is Youtube's, but that can be solved with a DCMA complaint, because YouTube doesn't want to get in such legal fights.

Second, copyright infringement is concerned with whether a product is depriving the copyright holder of income. The easiest way to prove this is to demonstrate that a for-sale infringing item is competing with a for-sale item from the rightsholder.

Want to go to court and argue that a fan-made video that isn't competing with any of your products is costing you money because they uploaded it to a website that happens to show ads? Good luck.

GW does have its animation department. It is not their main product, but they do have products that are technically competing with fan-made videos. After all, Astartes is now their product.


There are plenty of fanfics posted to websites that run banner ads.


And such websites make it clear that if there is any issue with the IP holder, the fanfic is getting dropped. Just like with YouTube, fanfic websites don't want to get in legal fights with IP holders.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/14 17:07:02


 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

I'm pretty sure it's illegal regardless of whether you cause damage/loss of income for the creator.
   
Made in nl
Tail Gunner



Old Francia

This is what I had to say when the crreator of Astartes announced his cooperation with GW and the subsquent removal of the video's from Youtube:

Whether predomenantly coercion or incentive was involved in this development we'll likely never know unless either party is willing to disclose the terms of their agreement with the broader public (...) I do not, however, disaprove of official recogniation of such an awesome fan project, certainly that very fact will have placed some role in the creator's decision.

My personal contention is that companies like GW should not have the abillity to legally act against individual content creator of the kind that are discussed thread, as their demonstration of craftsmanship and fan commitment decisively weigh heavier than the banal material losses sufferd by GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 18:33:03


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Caradman Sturnn wrote:
This is what I had to say when the crreator of Astartes announced his cooperation with GW and the subsquent removal of the video's from Youtube:

Whether predomenantly coercion or incentive was involved in this development we'll likely never know unless either party is willing to disclose the terms of their agreement with the broader public (...) I do not, however, disaprove of official recogniation of such an awesome fan project, certainly that very fact will have placed some role in the creator's decision.

My personal contention is that companies like GW should not have the abillity to legally act against individual content creator of the kind that are discussed thread, as their demonstration of craftsmanship and fan commitment decisively weigh heavier than the banal material losses sufferd by GW.


And yet these creators are piggybacking on the work of GW. It's their decades of work that has built the brand to the point a project like Astartes can gain instant "mass" appeal. The creator is effectively profiting from the brand awareness that they did nothing to create themselves. You also need to consider that individuals and companies need to be able to protect their IP from what they see as misuse or inappropriate depictions of their IP.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




They obviously didn't see it as misuse or inappropriate depictions, given they hired the guy (and IIRC had highlighted his work in the past).
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




yukishiro1 wrote:
They obviously didn't see it as misuse or inappropriate depictions, given they hired the guy (and IIRC had highlighted his work in the past).


Correct. Which is why I mentioned it as one reason why IP protection exists and not the only one.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, if we're talking real reasons, the main reason we have the copyright laws we do is because it's good for the mouse, and what the mouse wants, it usually gets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 20:03:30


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






A more interesting question to me is what if the "fanfic" was satyrical or making commentary on the GW product? Would it start to fall into the fair use category and thus become immune to potential GW takedown?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOOJPdymEj4

A few minutes in the video, it seems that the guy that made The Last Church disclosed a few things about the process.

Carrot and stick and, ofc, the threat of a C&D.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 vipoid wrote:
Something I haven't seen mentioned thus far is the question of what harm stuff like the Astartes videos actually inflict upon GW.

In the case of people either making models very similar to theirs (or outright stealing their designs) I understand the complaint because those models are directly competing with GW's and thus potentially stealing away their sales.

Likewise, I could see the complaint against people posting GW's rules/rulebooks online (even if they're not making money from it) - as it saves people having to buy their overpriced rulebooks and codices.

However, I'm far less clear on what harm or loss is inflicted on GW by someone making a fan video. It seems fair to say that the video isn't competing with any GW equivalent. Also, since it was entirely fan-made, GW spent no resources to produce it, so (unlike with rulebooks) it's not as if a product they normally sell is being given away for free. Given that it's free to watch, it's also not competing for customer revenue in the same way that copycat models might.

If anything, it seems like fans doing GW's job for them and making videos that get people interested in Space Marines and in the 40k universe.

Quick, shut them down before it's too late!


Did you miss the part where GW has been hiring TV and Film studio execs and working on its own slate of animated and live action content? The "harm" is that these independent animations are and will be directly competing with GWs own official content for visibility and attention (Astartes basically broke the internet and got visibility farther outside of the fandom than anything GW has over produced itself). The last thing you ever want to hear as a creator is "This unofficial fanfilm is better than anything you ever produced", and thats especially true when you're aiming to be a major media studio like GW is. The flip side of that though is that because Astartes was so damned successful, GW now has added something with proven market penetration to its roster - when the full length whatever-it-is is released the internet will go nuts about it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There’s also something we need to consider.

40K and indeed all of GW’s fare is distinctive, yes? And that goes beyond the look. It’s also the feel of it.

You can’t make a Space Marine “League of Super Best Friends” type show, because that’s beyond the feel of it. It doesn’t matter how good the animation, art direction and voice acting is if it doesn’t feel 40K.

Astartes nailed all of it. Every last bit. It realised Marines in the right way, and in a visually striking manner. It’s absolutely brilliant in every conceivable way.

GW aren’t just looking to bring their stuff to the big or small screen. They’re looking to do it as a solid translation.

Hiring the guy behind Astartes was an absolute no-brainer. He has the skills and a clear love and understanding for the source material. Their approach here absolutely is the right one.

It is possibly slightly mercenary, as had Astartes not been brilliant, they probably just would’ve buried it. But what better way to find the right talent?


This guy gets it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This is seeming more and more like black knights who have decided to hate on GW for this and the actual facts or logic are arbitrary since the conclusion was already reached.


This guy gets it too.

 Thairne wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOOJPdymEj4

A few minutes in the video, it seems that the guy that made The Last Church disclosed a few things about the process.

Carrot and stick and, ofc, the threat of a C&D.


thats not really what the guy actually said, this is the actual post: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxvVOGv5ueoY2crbilUTS5g/community

"The Last Church Update

Hey everyone! I’d like to let you all know, from the team and myself, that the release of The Last Church has been a dream come true. The outpour of support from the community has been remarkable and we can never express how wonderful an experience this was for us.

Being now conscious of the fact that we were acting beyond our rights when we made this film and that we used an IP (and story!) that wasn’t ours to use, I can’t help but feel I’m obligated to take our animation down. .

But fret not! The good folks at Games Workshop have reached out to us and offered the possibility of collaboration on future projects. I’m sure you all understand how exciting that prospect is for us and how eager we are to pursue this opportunity. Although the cooperative process with GW has only just begun, I believe it may be the start of an exciting future for our team and the content we produce. We’ll make sure to keep you all posted!

I would like to emphasize that we were not just given a C&D and told to pack it up. GW very graciously took the time to meet with us, tell us how much they enjoyed our adaptation of The Last Church and explain how many liberties we really took with our film. They acted with the utmost kindness and consideration. (And Warhammer Animation offered us the chance to collaborate! That’s pretty awesome.) In fact, it’s possible that The Last Church may one day find a new home in GW’s media library. But that’s for the future to decide. What comes next can’t yet be said but rest assured we’ll make something great.

To all those who subscribed to our Patreon: thank you. Your support means the world to us and demonstrates the very real demand for the sort of films our team can create. The realization that so many were so excited to see more from us drives us to improve our skills and continue as a team. That being said, I’ll shut down the Patreon immediately.

Tony, Aaron and I can never truly express what this project meant to us. That meaning was illimitably amplified by the thousands of comments and messages we received in support. Thank you all. With some good grace and a pinch of fortune, we’ll be back with more films for you soon!

V/R, Tyber Portoghese"

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Gee, that sounds like they acted in the most upfront and professional manner possible.












Gunna grab some popcorn to watch the black knights hate on it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/15 04:49:22


 
   
Made in us
Wicked Ghast




Wait, so GW hires the guy, and people here are pissed? Peak Dakka.

Peak.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Seabass wrote:
Wait, so GW hires the guy, and people here are pissed? Peak Dakka.

Peak.

Grimdank was also equally conspiritorial and upset, so apparently the community's trust issues have gotten a bit nuts.
   
Made in us
Wicked Ghast




 ClockworkZion wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Wait, so GW hires the guy, and people here are pissed? Peak Dakka.

Peak.

Grimdank was also equally conspiritorial and upset, so apparently the community's trust issues have gotten a bit nuts.


I just can't wrap my head around it. We should be celebrating this! This guy gets to work on animations with the people that created the source material, with vastly more resources, and now gets paid to do it. I mean, I'm happy for him and hope it works well. He was doing a great job before and I can't wait to see what he does with some real support.

I just can't wrap my head around it.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 kirotheavenger wrote:

I also don't think these creators were co-erced into joining GW. I think the offer of employment was a genuine offer.

I do however think they were pressured into removing their content and transferring it to GW.
"You will take down this content, you have no right to use it, but we can work out a deal that better suits both parties".

I think that's entirely fair, and characterising it as blackmail is a bit unfair.


This whole thing reminds me of Valve, they would hire promising mod developers into their teams. If I recall games like Counter Strike and Team Fortress were once mods to the original Half-Life.

GW is just bringing in talented 3D artists to churn out their own animations. Though it does annoy me that they don't seem to reupload anything to their own Warhammer channel. They reuploaded Astartes after they took out any potential copyright issues onto Warhammer Community. Surely reuploading back to Youtube would generate more traffic on a much larger social media platform.
   
Made in nl
Tail Gunner



Old Francia

Slipspace wrote:
And yet these creators are piggybacking on the work of GW. It's their decades of work that has built the brand to the point a project like Astartes can gain instant "mass" appeal. The creator is effectively profiting from the brand awareness that they did nothing to create themselves. You also need to consider that individuals and companies need to be able to protect their IP from what they see as misuse or inappropriate depictions of their IP.

I don't fully agree, it's all relative in my optics: Creations made by individuals or small to medium sized enterprises should recieve a very good degree of intellectual protection. But wealthy organisations should not have te ability to legally act against indviduals who, in good and faith and with the utmost craftsmanship and fan dedications, create content derived from said company's creations. Outside of principal reasons I also fail to see how animations like Astartes or the Last Church cause any 'harm' for GW or society at large.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 07:31:12


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




Caradman Sturnn wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
And yet these creators are piggybacking on the work of GW. It's their decades of work that has built the brand to the point a project like Astartes can gain instant "mass" appeal. The creator is effectively profiting from the brand awareness that they did nothing to create themselves. You also need to consider that individuals and companies need to be able to protect their IP from what they see as misuse or inappropriate depictions of their IP.

I don't fully agree, it's all relative in my optics: Creations made by individuals or small to medium sized enterprises should recieve a very good degree of intellectual protection. But wealthy organisations should not have te ability to legally act against indviduals who, in good and faith and with the utmost craftsmanship and fan dedications, create content derived from said company's creations. Outside of principal reasons I also fail to see how animations like Astartes or the Last Church cause any 'harm' for GW or society at large.


The harm is that GW wants to start their own animation series and artists like SODAZ are free, high quality competitors (who use GWs IP). Instead of starting from 0 you just hire the most talented artists of your fanbase. You acquire their work and experience, take out competition, they get to do what they did with more ressources and a proper salary.

GW isn't doing this out of pure charity, but at the end it is still a win-win situation for both sides.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




The harm can also be that the person or brand is not someone they want to promote, or be associated with.
If they are, then it’s probably worth looking at a licence anyway. Or some kind of deal so they at least follow some brand guide lines.

This is not even that heavy handed, just read up on how controlling Coke and Pepsi can get over the years :-0
   
 
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