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Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Yes, a large part of the fanbase got upset by the "You will not be missed" message. Any guesses as to which part of the fanbase got upset...?

The only problem with it was the doublespeak, "40k is for everyone, it is also not for everyone". "40k is for people regardless of their ethnicity or gender and you will not be missed if you think otherwise" would have been a more clear message without the doublespeak.
 Arbitrator wrote:
Literally who?

I love watching a bit of e-drama as much as the next person but I've never heard of him. I wonder of this is a pre-emptive 'distancing' because somebody is going to make a statement (with some sort of evidence) in the future regarding what he's alleged to have done, whether that's cheating, messing with the books, sexual harassment, etc and FLG just wanted to shove him out the door before it looked like they were made to push.

Host of the biggest 40k competitive podcast I think?
Slipspace wrote:
What makes this even worse, IMO, is they specifically decided not to name the person involved in the recent cheating scandal who was definitively caught on video and who issued his own statement acknowledging his wrongdoing. This was, apparently, to prevent reputational damage both inside and outside 40k and give them a chance to rehabilitate.

But in the case of an ex-employee they're happy to make vague insinuations while naming them and warning people away from dealing with him. Something seems very off about their priorities.

People were sending death threats to the tourney guy, I don't know if that preceded FLG's statement. Nobody knows what Pablo did and people still don't so nobody is sending Pablo death threats.

"You are the scum of the earth, I will murder you for having broken evil man Reecio's trust by playing Tau Empire." /sarcasm
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






FLG doesn't care about cheating. On the AoS side we have known, chronic cheaters who show up and do it every year without penalty. And even bitch when called on it, as if they are totally the victim.

As to the 'you will not be missed' all GW is doing is clarifying that when they say Warhammer is for everyone they don't mean Warhammer is for LITERALLY everyone. Because so many people are too fething stupid to apply any sort of nuance these days. No doubt they could have phrased it better so it would translate into the minds of dullards.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 18:22:24


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Clearly they should have said "Warhammer is for everyone, except poorer people."
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, GW's version of inclusion is the country-club variety: the only color they care about is green.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, GW's version of inclusion is the country-club variety: the only color they care about is green.


Remember they’re a British company - red and purple are much better than green
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Am I confusing 40k influencers or is FLG the group that was primarily the cast of Team Happy, that got caught in the Plasma Pistol fiasco, or the Aligator/roughrider fiasco, or the slow play fiasco of 8th? I can't recall who was in Team Happy, but I know they were from the US and part of a major 40k influencer group. Am I confusing them with the SpikeyBits crew?
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Am I confusing 40k influencers or is FLG the group that was primarily the cast of Team Happy, that got caught in the Plasma Pistol fiasco, or the Aligator/roughrider fiasco, or the slow play fiasco of 8th? I can't recall who was in Team Happy, but I know they were from the US and part of a major 40k influencer group. Am I confusing them with the SpikeyBits crew?
Frontline Gaming is neither SpikeyBits nor Team Happy. They are the primary organizers behind the ITC and a business selling and producing gaming products and running TT miniatures events like the Las Vegas Open.
   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

 Kommisar wrote:
 Las wrote:
He knew what he was painting.

At the same time, him painting that symbol on a figure set in an edge lord settings doesn't make him a nazi.

It's much more likely he just did a big stupid.

But it its definitely a fire-able offence.


uh that was like 2 years ago


Haha I thought that was the latest.

I straight up dont know what's going on then. Can someone summarize?

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Las wrote:
 Kommisar wrote:
 Las wrote:
He knew what he was painting.

At the same time, him painting that symbol on a figure set in an edge lord settings doesn't make him a nazi.

It's much more likely he just did a big stupid.

But it its definitely a fire-able offence.


uh that was like 2 years ago


Haha I thought that was the latest.

I straight up dont know what's going on then. Can someone summarize?


Read the first post, all other posts after that are peoples opinions of that post and then someone brought up how bad FLG RP is and cited the Skull painting as proof that Reece is terrible at PR.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 10:37:00


15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Las wrote:
 Kommisar wrote:
 Las wrote:
He knew what he was painting.

At the same time, him painting that symbol on a figure set in an edge lord settings doesn't make him a nazi.

It's much more likely he just did a big stupid.

But it its definitely a fire-able offence.


uh that was like 2 years ago


Haha I thought that was the latest.

I straight up dont know what's going on then. Can someone summarize?



Read the first post, all other posts after that are peoples opinions of that post and then someone brought up how bad LFG RP is and cited the Skull painting as proof that Reece is terrible at PR.


Ah I see. So no one knows why Pablo was fired yet, definitively?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 23:04:26


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nobody knows what's going on, that's sort-of the point: FLG put out a statement long on "Pablo is the worst! Don't trust him!" and very short on "this is what he actually did."

   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




 alextroy wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Am I confusing 40k influencers or is FLG the group that was primarily the cast of Team Happy, that got caught in the Plasma Pistol fiasco, or the Aligator/roughrider fiasco, or the slow play fiasco of 8th? I can't recall who was in Team Happy, but I know they were from the US and part of a major 40k influencer group. Am I confusing them with the SpikeyBits crew?
Frontline Gaming is neither SpikeyBits nor Team Happy. They are the primary organizers behind the ITC and a business selling and producing gaming products and running TT miniatures events like the Las Vegas Open.


Right, the reason I asked is I listen to the Long War podcast a lot, and they have talked a lot recently, about how this is like what Team Happy was accused of doing, and I think Wyatt was talking about how Team Happy was mostly made up of "Another influencer group, we won't mention their name here..." I thought he might be talking about FLG, so I just asked if FLG was mostly made up of Team Happy members, or Vice Versa.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Las wrote:
Ah I see. So no one knows why Pablo was fired yet, definitively?

At this time, no. I tried checking Pablo's social media in case he gave his side of the story but nothing has come out yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 23:55:27


 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Illinois

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Am I confusing 40k influencers or is FLG the group that was primarily the cast of Team Happy, that got caught in the Plasma Pistol fiasco, or the Aligator/roughrider fiasco, or the slow play fiasco of 8th? I can't recall who was in Team Happy, but I know they were from the US and part of a major 40k influencer group. Am I confusing them with the SpikeyBits crew?
Frontline Gaming is neither SpikeyBits nor Team Happy. They are the primary organizers behind the ITC and a business selling and producing gaming products and running TT miniatures events like the Las Vegas Open.


Right, the reason I asked is I listen to the Long War podcast a lot, and they have talked a lot recently, about how this is like what Team Happy was accused of doing, and I think Wyatt was talking about how Team Happy was mostly made up of "Another influencer group, we won't mention their name here..." I thought he might be talking about FLG, so I just asked if FLG was mostly made up of Team Happy members, or Vice Versa.


referencing something heard on the long war is never a good start. team happy has nothing to do with flg and is generally regarded as a group of the worst type of 40k player.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Slipspace wrote:
What makes this even worse, IMO, is they specifically decided not to name the person involved in the recent cheating scandal who was definitively caught on video and who issued his own statement acknowledging his wrongdoing. This was, apparently, to prevent reputational damage both inside and outside 40k and give them a chance to rehabilitate.

But in the case of an ex-employee they're happy to make vague insinuations while naming them and warning people away from dealing with him. Something seems very off about their priorities.

There is a difference in cheating in a hobby, and then doing something at work, even if you hobby is work.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Jesus, what a poor statement by FLG. If you have to fire someone who is public enough that you require a statement to clarify your position, you absolutely do not give a reason for doing so. You are under no obligation to provide a justification, and providing such a vague statement only makes people assume the worst.

My first thought when I read the statement was whether he assaulted or defrauded someone. Imagine what a potential future employer might think. This is exactly why companies don't like to give out references for former employees.

The only reasons I can think of for a business to release this vague statement is if emotions were involved (in which case, sleep on it first for Christ's sake) or if Pablo was involved in legal action (in which case you wait until the allegations are public, and you make it absolutely clear that it's an allegation). Either way, FLG is the bad guy in this situation.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
What makes this even worse, IMO, is they specifically decided not to name the person involved in the recent cheating scandal who was definitively caught on video and who issued his own statement acknowledging his wrongdoing. This was, apparently, to prevent reputational damage both inside and outside 40k and give them a chance to rehabilitate.

But in the case of an ex-employee they're happy to make vague insinuations while naming them and warning people away from dealing with him. Something seems very off about their priorities.

There is a difference in cheating in a hobby, and then doing something at work, even if you hobby is work.


Maybe? Some events have decent prize pools, while the 'something' here might be 'put mayo on a hot dog at a company picnic,' 'took a picture with an actor they don't like,' 'didn't buy the cocaine for the company party' or 'wandered off with 50K of company assets.' Its just 'something,' apparently, the other two don't approve of. And now he is to be Shunned, so sayeth those on high.

For the facts given, cheating very well could be a bigger deal than... whatever this is about.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Off-topic pols removed

BACK ON TOPIC, (for the last time )

The whole thing is suspect. If you are going to come out and blame someone for bad things then you need to list his/her/its transgression's so the customer can at least form a opinion on their own. What happened was not only suspect but also just petty. FLG does not seem like a good place to work at.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 08:43:28


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




The whole thing just stinks and is a sad commentary on the competitive scene (in the U.S. anyway) in general. Everyone has been getting excited and geared up to have actual tournaments again, and now that we do, the major headlines all seem so negative. We've always seen issues here and there - the occasional "that guy" at a large GT, to the rumors of players from more "famous" teams (not going to name them as I wasn't there so can't speak to the veracity of the claims) getting preferential treatment, but to have the group that's running the show act like this is a bummer.

They've made some flubs in the past which I have generally attributed to a lack of experience running businesses (like Daedalus said - a group of buddies trying to run something), but at this point, they have enough time under their belt to know this is not great. A simple "Pablo no longer works for FLG and, as such, no longer represents the company in any of his dealings." would have been just fine.


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

It reads to me like emotions are running pretty hot in FLG around that statement.

That doesn't excuse the gakky message at all though.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Cheex wrote:
Jesus, what a poor statement by FLG. If you have to fire someone who is public enough that you require a statement to clarify your position, you absolutely do not give a reason for doing so. You are under no obligation to provide a justification, and providing such a vague statement only makes people assume the worst.

My first thought when I read the statement was whether he assaulted or defrauded someone. Imagine what a potential future employer might think. This is exactly why companies don't like to give out references for former employees.

The only reasons I can think of for a business to release this vague statement is if emotions were involved (in which case, sleep on it first for Christ's sake) or if Pablo was involved in legal action (in which case you wait until the allegations are public, and you make it absolutely clear that it's an allegation). Either way, FLG is the bad guy in this situation.


Think about the position this letter puts Pablo in.

The accusations are so non-specific they could mean anything. They come from a company that runs tournaments, manages the ITC rankings, playtests the game with GW, and otherwise enjoys a lot of influence.

If Pablo publicly talks about leaving FLG, that opens the door for FLG to just keep making more ambiguous statements about harm, trust, etc. If he says nothing, he just has to live with whatever Reese has to say. There's not really a third option.

Spewing this kind of poison just makes me mad. The target is put in an impossible situation, he's effectively been cancelled from the hobby. FLG is putting a target on someone's back over an HR dispute and claiming it's in the interests of the community.

Not sure I want to be part of any community where Reese is the shot caller and we all have to live up to his values. Him coming down on people like this is the problem.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, and it's also hard to put it down to the heat of the moment, because they waited a long time to put the statement out. So it's not like they fired him and then rage-posted on Facebook about it 15 minutes later. Enough time passed that they should have been able to cool down enough to realize how lame a statement like this was - to Pablo, to the community, and even to their own reputation.

He may well have done something seriously wrong, I'm not saying he didn't, but we certainly aren't left with an impression that we can take FLG's word for it, based on that statement.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Do we even know as to why?


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nobody has any clue. All we know from FLG is we must ostracize him from the tribe for unspeakable crimes.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





yukishiro1 wrote:
Nobody has any clue. All we know from FLG is we must ostracize him from the tribe for unspeakable crimes.


So basically that can range from "had some issues with some one higher up in the food chain or group and we kicked him out and tarred and feathered him" to actual criminal behaviour...

Truly, majestic... considering he isn't in a prison or has to deal with police i go out on a hunch then and say the former.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Not Online!!! wrote:

So basically that can range from "had some issues with some one higher up in the food chain or group and we kicked him out and tarred and feathered him" to actual criminal behaviour...

Truly, majestic... considering he isn't in a prison or has to deal with police i go out on a hunch then and say the former.

Prison is post-trial. I'm not going to say what I really want to as it gets into politics, but prison is not something likely to be involved with whatever this is unless there's physical harm coming to people.

The big takeaway here seems to be the comment was made to make it clear that he has no involvement with them at this time. Could be they had let him go and found out that he's approaching people without mentioning he's left FLG.
   
Made in gb
Tinkering Tech-Priest





It might turn out that Pablo is the devil himself. I've no idea.

What I do know is that I'm left with an incredibly bitter taste in my mouth over FLG's behaviour here. I had a certain amount of respect for what they do given the work they've put in in the community. That's largely now evaporated.

I'm disturbed that individuals who are willing to pick and choose which characters they 'assassinate' (which seems a matter of fact rather than opinion given recent statements from them), and who expect us, as a community, to follow their dubious lead, have as much power as they do - they defacto run competitive 40K.

Enough is enough. Without a massive about face and an assurance that they'll do better in future, I don't want any part of what they're selling at this point. I'm a drop in the ocean, and they won't give a gak, but I'll sleep better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 16:09:08


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

So basically that can range from "had some issues with some one higher up in the food chain or group and we kicked him out and tarred and feathered him" to actual criminal behaviour...

Truly, majestic... considering he isn't in a prison or has to deal with police i go out on a hunch then and say the former.

Prison is post-trial. I'm not going to say what I really want to as it gets into politics, but prison is not something likely to be involved with whatever this is unless there's physical harm coming to people.

The big takeaway here seems to be the comment was made to make it clear that he has no involvement with them at this time. Could be they had let him go and found out that he's approaching people without mentioning he's left FLG.


Well, i stated either in prison or has to deal with the police.

And i think your reason as to why they reacted that unprofessionaly could be quite well hitting the nail on the head.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 StrayIight wrote:
It might turn out that Pablo is the devil himself. I've no idea.

What I do know is that I'm left with an incredibly bitter taste in mouth over FLG's behaviour here. I had a certain amount of respect for what they do given the work they've put in in the community. That's largely now evaporated.

I'm disturbed that individuals who are willing to pick and choose which characters they 'assassinate' (which seems a matter of fact rather than opinion given recent statements from them), and who expect us, as a community, to follow their dubious lead, have as much power as they do - they defacto run competitive 40K.

Enough is enough. I don't want any part of what they're selling at this point. I'm a drop in the ocean, and they won't give a gak, but I'll sleep better.


Yes. Reese is advertising 8 upcoming events in another thread. Tempting, but I'd rather wait for other options to develop.

While I'm jonesing for in-person games, part of the appeal is the community. Not the sense I'm propping up FLG's business model, along with whatever this letter represents.

With Adepticon / NOVA Open being cancelled, not sure what other options there are in the near term.

   
Made in gb
Tinkering Tech-Priest





 techsoldaten wrote:


Yes. Reese is advertising 8 upcoming events in another thread. Tempting, but I'd rather wait for other options to develop.

While I'm jonesing for in-person games, part of the appeal is the community. Not the sense I'm propping up FLG's business model, along with whatever this letter represents.

With Adepticon / NOVA Open being cancelled, not sure what other options there are in the near term.


It's interesting to hear he's active here. I've heard him speak about Dakka quite disparagingly on 'Signals from the frontline'.

I'd like to hold some hope that he'll see this thread and do some soul-searching.
We're a fairly small sample in this thread, but it's fair to say that on the matter of their behaviour in that statement, we've been overwhelmingly in agreement that this wasn't right.

We're all capable of making mistakes - occasionally, pretty terrible ones. There should almost always be a way back from that, and I'd want them to have that opportunity.
I'd also want them to realise, that in the position they occupy (and have made for themselves largely), their behaviour needs to be far better. Much closer to a standard of 'above reproach' than anyone else in the community.

Certainly better than posting pardons and indictments of individuals like some kind of feudal lord.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 17:50:22


 
   
 
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