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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:


You are right. He cannot throw infinite grenades. Only until everything within 6" is killed.
And again, your argument fails.

Bragg's rules say "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks... This model can immediately shoot again"

Trooper Bragg being able to "immediately shoot again" is not resolving attacks for that unit, just for that single model. There is no permission for the unit to resolve its attacks a second time. Therefore, the "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks" clause in braggs rule never hs its conditions met after the first time the unit is selected to shoot.

You have not acknowledged that his unit can not shoot twice, so bragg can only throw two grenades at most. no infinite (Or more than two) attacks with grenades for trooper "Try again".

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:


You are right. He cannot throw infinite grenades. Only until everything within 6" is killed.
And again, your argument fails.

Bragg's rules say "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks... This model can immediately shoot again"

Trooper Bragg being able to "immediately shoot again" is not resolving attacks for that unit, just for that single model. There is no permission for the unit to resolve its attacks a second time. Therefore, the "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks" clause in braggs rule never hs its conditions met after the first time the unit is selected to shoot.

You have not acknowledged that his unit can not shoot twice, so bragg can only throw two grenades at most. no infinite (Or more than two) attacks with grenades for trooper "Try again".


And again, your argument fails. The unit doesnt need permission to shoot again, only bragg does. Its fine if only one model from a unit shoots. After that model has shot, the unit has resolved its attacks.
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

It is plain as day to see the intention was for Braag to continue shooting until he gets two hits with his autocannon, to give him some fluffy rules that are both lore friendly and crunchy that the BS5+ means he would hit something every turn.

Trying to argue it applies to any other weapon he carries is absolute cobblers. Is the rule badly written? Yes. Is the intent clear? Also yes. Trying to RAW it is really bad sportsmanship in my eyes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/10 05:56:51


Minatours 2,000pts 70% painted 
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

No one knows RAI, except GW. If they wanted to give bragg an auto hit ability, they could have written the rule that bragg auto hits with his AC, but they didnt. Whats gakky is, is GW constantly failing at writing decent rules.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/10 06:44:06


 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:


You are right. He cannot throw infinite grenades. Only until everything within 6" is killed.
And again, your argument fails.

Bragg's rules say "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks... This model can immediately shoot again"

Trooper Bragg being able to "immediately shoot again" is not resolving attacks for that unit, just for that single model. There is no permission for the unit to resolve its attacks a second time. Therefore, the "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks" clause in braggs rule never hs its conditions met after the first time the unit is selected to shoot.

You have not acknowledged that his unit can not shoot twice, so bragg can only throw two grenades at most. no infinite (Or more than two) attacks with grenades for trooper "Try again".


And again, your argument fails. The unit doesnt need permission to shoot again, only bragg does. Its fine if only one model from a unit shoots. After that model has shot, the unit has resolved its attacks.
No, my argument follows the rules. The unit needs permission to fire again, because Braggs rule says "Each time this unit has resolved its attacks" If you are not selecting braggs unit then they can not ever resolve their attacks.

Basically you claim this:
After that model has shot, the unit has resolved its attacks.

But you have not proven it.

The shooting rules are clear that a unit can only be selected to shoot (and roll to hit and resolve their attacks etc...) once.

You will not find anything that says otherwise, so your argument falls apart.


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

I will not repeat what i already said multiple times. RAW works, you are wrong.
   
Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle




 p5freak wrote:
I will not repeat what i already said multiple times. RAW works, you are wrong.


The actual (and incredibly clear) RAW is as follows:

Bragg needs the unit to shoot to shoot again.

RRSA dictates that Bragg shooting as a model is different than the unit shooting.

Nothing in the Bragg rule tags the unit to the top of the shooting phase.

Bragg only fires twice with any weapon.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Dr. Mills wrote:
It is plain as day to see the intention was for Braag to continue shooting until he gets two hits with his autocannon, to give him some fluffy rules that are both lore friendly and crunchy that the BS5+ means he would hit something every turn.

Trying to argue it applies to any other weapon he carries is absolute cobblers. Is the rule badly written? Yes. Is the intent clear? Also yes. Trying to RAW it is really bad sportsmanship in my eyes.
I have to totally disagree with your interpretation of clear intent. At best, it is intended to make sure he gets 1 Hit with his Autocannon since he can shoot again if no hits were made with his AC.

However, I think the clear intent is that if he misses with his AC the first time, he is allowed a second try (aka Try Again). Nothing more than that. No attacking with the AC if he misses with his grenade. No unlimited attacks with a grenade. No roll two dice until one of them hits.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
I will not repeat what i already said multiple times. RAW works, you are wrong.

We won't repeat either # you are, again, incorrect on raw.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Jesus, people are still arguing about this?

   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
I will not repeat what i already said multiple times. RAW works, you are wrong.
You have multiple people explaining why your argument fails, why are you ignoring the rules?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




 Valkyrie wrote:
Jesus, people are still arguing about this?


I have literally seen people here argue 20 pages on whether a destroyed model gets a second attack, AFTER it was destroyed.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Valkyrie wrote:
Jesus, people are still arguing about this?

We weren't arguing about this until somebody brought it back up again.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





The people arguing for infinite grenade throws are the same people that put their finger right in your face for 12 hours and say "i'm not touching you". You know exactly what you're doing.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From the 'Tenets of You Make Da Call':

5. Stick to discussing the rules, not the poster. Phrases like "Rules Lawyer", "Cheater" and "TFG" have no place in rules discussions. Don't depart from rules discussions by attaching value judgments to different interpretations.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

And we're done here.
   
 
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