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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






The scenario has gotten narrower and narrower . . .

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.
Punch? They could *walk* though those walls.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.
Punch? They could *walk* though those walls.
Let's not get too power-fantasy crazed here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 21:24:37


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.
Punch? They could *walk* though those walls.
Let's not get too power-fantasy crazed here.
The force of an Astartes shoulder-bashing through a wall? I don't think that's too outlandish.


They/them

 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Shoulder-bashing at full speed is more the juggernaut and realistic for a marine.

When you say walking I'm thinking more of:


Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 21:30:32


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.
Punch? They could *walk* though those walls.
Let's not get too power-fantasy crazed here.
The force of an Astartes shoulder-bashing through a wall? I don't think that's too outlandish.
Shoulder bashing ain't "walking." Cinderblocks-filled-with-concrete? maybe. Legit hardened concrete? nah. I think if a Humvee will have trouble going through it, so will a marine.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
less of a worry about doorways and narrow corridors when they're mostly all rubble eh?


That's a bit of stupid argument. Navigating those rubbles and unstable ruins is going to be very difficult. Being big and heavy could make those things collapse under you as you try to navigate them and at that point, you might as well regress to "war by mass artillery".
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.


They/them

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Because Hab Blocks aren't made out of wood.



TBH I'd not be tooo suprised if a Marine could punch through a concrete wall.
Punch? They could *walk* though those walls.
Let's not get too power-fantasy crazed here.


yeah concrete has a HIGH strength, punching through it by itself is actually pretty impressive, still with power armor I could see it possiable,


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






epronovost wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
less of a worry about doorways and narrow corridors when they're mostly all rubble eh?


That's a bit of stupid argument. Navigating those rubbles and unstable ruins is going to be very difficult. Being big and heavy could make those things collapse under you as you try to navigate them and at that point, you might as well regress to "war by mass artillery".
I think the point is that it's more of an option in the 40K universe than it often is in our modern one. Collateral damage is much less important to the Imperium in general.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




mrFickle wrote:
Lord Zarkov wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
Isn’t the crux terminatus some sort of force field?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be fair though with all the resources of the imperium you could probably equip a thousand SM with lascannons with no issue.

It would just be a boring story, probably.


The crux itself is not no, it’s just a badge with a sliver of the Emperor’s armour.

The confusion comes from the 3rd Ed Chapter Approved article that first granted them an invulnerable save being named ‘Crux Terminatus’, but the article itself just said it was because the armour was legendarily thick rather than due to a force field.

The issue was that they changed from 3+ on 2D6 in 2nd to 2+ in 3rd to simplify things, but then the designers decided they were being killed to easily by banshees and the like so added the 5++.


Is that still Supposed to be true, that the crux is made with a bit of the emperors armour? Back when terminator armour was rare and couldn’t be reproduced it might make sense but I think terminators are 10 a penny now in 40k. There can’t be enough armour to go around


I believe so, though presumably there’s not very much of it in each given cross. Cut small enough slivers and you could probably split it 100,000 ways (and we know it should be less than that as only the DA have an all terminator 1st company and only Indominus suits seem to have it).
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Collateral damage is much less important to the Imperium in general.


It depends. The Imperium isn't all that careful about people being victims or their regular amenities, but it's very sensitive to its landmarks, monuments, temples and factories being damaged. In some it's absolutely vital because they have the technical knowledge to maintain and use the factory, but not rebuild it from scratch. In a sense, to the Imperium, its factories are even more precious to the war effort than ours. The Imperium is also fiercely religious. If there is a sliver of bones of a saint in a church destroying that church becomes a tragedy that must be avoided at all cost. The Imperium is also a society of Orders. The Imperium doesn't care about most people, but noble born people's lives and housings might be considered essential and not to be destroyed or damaged if possible because those same nobles happen to be your generals.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Lord Zarkov wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
Lord Zarkov wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
Isn’t the crux terminatus some sort of force field?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be fair though with all the resources of the imperium you could probably equip a thousand SM with lascannons with no issue.

It would just be a boring story, probably.


The crux itself is not no, it’s just a badge with a sliver of the Emperor’s armour.

The confusion comes from the 3rd Ed Chapter Approved article that first granted them an invulnerable save being named ‘Crux Terminatus’, but the article itself just said it was because the armour was legendarily thick rather than due to a force field.

The issue was that they changed from 3+ on 2D6 in 2nd to 2+ in 3rd to simplify things, but then the designers decided they were being killed to easily by banshees and the like so added the 5++.


Is that still Supposed to be true, that the crux is made with a bit of the emperors armour? Back when terminator armour was rare and couldn’t be reproduced it might make sense but I think terminators are 10 a penny now in 40k. There can’t be enough armour to go around


I believe so, though presumably there’s not very much of it in each given cross. Cut small enough slivers and you could probably split it 100,000 ways (and we know it should be less than that as only the DA have an all terminator 1st company and only Indominus suits seem to have it).


IIRC the sliver of the emperor's armor was always sort of a "myth" anyway, I can readily belive it';s not true at all


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
epronovost wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
less of a worry about doorways and narrow corridors when they're mostly all rubble eh?


That's a bit of stupid argument. Navigating those rubbles and unstable ruins is going to be very difficult. Being big and heavy could make those things collapse under you as you try to navigate them and at that point, you might as well regress to "war by mass artillery".
I think the point is that it's more of an option in the 40K universe than it often is in our modern one. Collateral damage is much less important to the Imperium in general.


exactly. modern military tactics is concerned about colatorial damage, it's VERY clear the Imperium of Mankind does not.

if the only way to get marines into an area is to flatten it with artillery? they will flatten it with artillery

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 22:04:22


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






epronovost wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Collateral damage is much less important to the Imperium in general.


It depends. The Imperium isn't all that careful about people being victims or their regular amenities, but it's very sensitive to its landmarks, monuments, temples and factories being damaged. In some it's absolutely vital because they have the technical knowledge to maintain and use the factory, but not rebuild it from scratch. In a sense, to the Imperium, its factories are even more precious to the war effort than ours. The Imperium is also fiercely religious. If there is a sliver of bones of a saint in a church destroying that church becomes a tragedy that must be avoided at all cost. The Imperium is also a society of Orders. The Imperium doesn't care about most people, but noble born people's lives and housings might be considered essential and not to be destroyed or damaged if possible because those same nobles happen to be your generals.
Yeah sure, they'll recover the sacred bones of person Holy-McImportantALot, and then use cyclonic torpedoes on the planet.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.

If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.

What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.


Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.

I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

Its funny and over the top if you think about it.

What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.


Which seems the perfect "tactic" to rush into an obvious trap (BTW the name of a classical 40k comic full of over the top action).

SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.

Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.

The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:14:32


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Vatsetis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.

If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.

What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.


Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.

I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

Its funny and over the top if you think about it.

What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.

And I can't understand why someone would want to argue with them about it for four pages straight. If you enjoy the absurdity, then don't complain about it, enjoy it!
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Im just answering those that pretend that the oversize and overweight of SM wont be a severe handicap in many feasible tactical situations.

Im not "complaning" nor demanding anything in this post... I have no problem with GW current depiction of marines in this regards, Im just stating that the whole concept cannot be taken seriously.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Vatsetis wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.

If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.

What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.


Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.

I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

Its funny and over the top if you think about it.

What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.


Which seems the perfect "tactic" to rush into an obvious trap (BTW the name of a classical 40k comic full of over the top action).

SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.

Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.

The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.
I dunno man, you've been reduced to claiming "Marines are dumb because I pretend Scouts dont exist."

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

By this metric Ratlings should be the best troopers of the Imperium of Mankind.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Imagine painting that! Just file down the mold lines before undercoating!

[Thumb - FilmShields.gif]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:32:21


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
Actually, Scouts still exist in all-Primaris Chapters. Just to clarify that.

What is the fluff reason for Phobos anyway?
Scouts are already meant be stealth and recon assets available to all chapters, so why have Phobos?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Niiai wrote:
Imagine painting that! Just file down the mold lines before undercoating!



Wasn't there a troll post from years about about putting a thick bubble over the miniature to prevent them from hard? A refractor field modeled like that would basically be the same sort of thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:35:50


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.


Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.
Funny - I seem to remember those arguments being used elsewhere.

But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

Its funny and over the top if you think about it.

What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.
What I can't understand is the fervent need of folks to cry about how unrealistic Space Marines are that all of their achievements in lore have to be propaganda, to the point where they seem to miss all of that "funny and over the top" stuff in favour of bludgeoning home how unrealistic they are.

We know. Space Marines are unrealistic. But so is *all* of 40k. Pointing out how they'd be useless in a "realistic" war is pointless because nothing in 40k is "realistic".


SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.
In some material, yes. And in others, they shrug off battle cannon rounds. If there's anything we know about how much damage a Space Marine can take, it's that we don't know how much damage a Space Marine can take.

Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.
Since when was anything in 40k considered rational by any metric of "basic tactical challenges"?

Again, you mention Knights, but fail to mention how utterly impractical *they* are as war machines - like most things in 40k, Space Marines included.

The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.
Except Space Marines are only lacklustre if you ignore, well, everything else about the setting.

We all know that Space Marines are ridiculous. But you seem to be working under the impression that everything else isn't as well.

Vatsetis wrote:Im just answering those that pretend that the oversize and overweight of SM wont be a severe handicap in many feasible tactical situations.
The thing is, 40k isn't "feasible tactical situations". It's 40k.

You're in the wrong setting for "feasible tactical situations", so I don't see why "feasible tactical situations" were brought up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:41:58



They/them

 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.

If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.

What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.


Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.

I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

Its funny and over the top if you think about it.

What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.


Which seems the perfect "tactic" to rush into an obvious trap (BTW the name of a classical 40k comic full of over the top action).

SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.

Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.

The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.
I dunno man, you've been reduced to claiming "Marines are dumb because I pretend Scouts dont exist."


Thats a very gross misreading of my POV.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
Actually, Scouts still exist in all-Primaris Chapters. Just to clarify that.

What is the fluff reason for Phobos anyway?
Scouts are already meant be stealth and recon assets available to all chapters, so why have Phobos?
Phobos Marines are more experienced and have better equipment than Scouts. Additionally, they have more durability, and vacuum protection. Another reason as well is that Scouts are, for the most part, only in the 10th Company, with only minor cases where existing Astartes would don Scout armour. With Phobos Marines, any Astartes can wear Phobos armour, no matter which company, as and when the combat doctrine requires it.

It wouldn't be the first time that Space Marine Chapters had multiple units that fulfilled the same battlefield roles.


They/them

 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




So it seems that Sgt_Smudge and I agree on the basics... But they are being confrontational just because they assume I have some sort of hidden agenda.

Im not here to win any fight, I simply like to debate and give my POV. Also its a good way to practice Eglish during the holidays

But simply stating that SM are silly because everything in the setting is silly is a very poor argument. If anything the SM background is very detailed so their silliness is much more visible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
Actually, Scouts still exist in all-Primaris Chapters. Just to clarify that.

What is the fluff reason for Phobos anyway?
Scouts are already meant be stealth and recon assets available to all chapters, so why have Phobos?
Phobos Marines are more experienced and have better equipment than Scouts. Additionally, they have more durability, and vacuum protection. Another reason as well is that Scouts are, for the most part, only in the 10th Company, with only minor cases where existing Astartes would don Scout armour. With Phobos Marines, any Astartes can wear Phobos armour, no matter which company, as and when the combat doctrine requires it.

It wouldn't be the first time that Space Marine Chapters had multiple units that fulfilled the same battlefield roles.


The real question would be why would marines used anything rather than phobos armor in most battlefield situations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:53:53


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
Actually, Scouts still exist in all-Primaris Chapters. Just to clarify that.

What is the fluff reason for Phobos anyway?
Scouts are already meant be stealth and recon assets available to all chapters, so why have Phobos?
Phobos Marines are more experienced and have better equipment than Scouts. Additionally, they have more durability, and vacuum protection. Another reason as well is that Scouts are, for the most part, only in the 10th Company, with only minor cases where existing Astartes would don Scout armour. With Phobos Marines, any Astartes can wear Phobos armour, no matter which company, as and when the combat doctrine requires it.

It wouldn't be the first time that Space Marine Chapters had multiple units that fulfilled the same battlefield roles.

Why use scouts if Vanguards are better equipped and trained then? I get that scouts are marines in training, but wouldn't Vanguard marines effectively change them into acting more like black templar neophytes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vatsetis wrote:


The real question would be why would marines used anything rather than phobos armor in most battlefield situations.

Apparently phobos armor is less protective than standard power armor, so when it comes to a direct assault it's not the best option.
It's also probably a bastard to produce and maintain too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:59:08


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Different missions though. Scouts do just that, Phobos Astartes are used for much more specialised spec ops missions. If you need recon you send Scouts but if you need a HVT eliminated quickly and relatively quietly then you'd use Phobos.
Phobos armour would be no more difficult to make than normal PA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 00:01:22


 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

 Gert wrote:
Different missions though. Scouts do just that, Phobos Astartes are used for much more specialised spec ops missions. If you need recon you send Scouts but if you need a HVT eliminated quickly and relatively quietly then you'd use Phobos.

Oh so if you want recon you use scouts, but if you want to ambush/assassinate/blow up and actually make sure there's no friendly losses in the event of discovery you use phobos. That makes sense I guess.

 Gert wrote:

Phobos armour would be no more difficult to make than normal PA.

Doesn't it use special lightweight materials and servo motors though? That's another component they would have to manufacture and install.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 00:04:30


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in es
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Just pray that it havent rain too much and those phobos primaris dont get stuck up to the chest in mud.

Just kidding... Astartes are great ;D
   
 
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