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Voss wrote:

I never played orks in 40k because they lacked the goblin element.

What now?

/Suspiciously eyes multiple units and lore bits written from the grot point of view./

tehre's a huge distinction between having one, eternally trash-tier grot unit available in game and goblins, which are a fully supported and (now, in AOS, fully stand-alone) faction with their own infantry, special weapons, monsters, elite units, commanders, wizards, etc.

This is like telling an Ogre Kingdoms that they can still play an Ogre Army in 40k because Ogryn exist as one single unit in the AM codex.

Yeah you cannot compare gretchin, killa kanz (my favourite ork unit) and mek gunz to the sheer variety of goblins in old fantasy both normal, night and forest ones.

I think grots can compare pretty well, you got da red gobbo, grot tanks of both sizes, kans, foot lads, boomy guns, mekky guns.
Hell, that’s way more units than either of the or(ru)c clans in AOS rn.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am scratching my head to understand why someone would play a faction that they don't like the lore for (or rather actively hate the lore for).

Less that and more "When you read the lore of a faction and all you can come up with is negative rules screw you"

Orcs and Goblins animosity came with a downside on a 1 and an upside on a 6, you cannot really say that all the writer came up with were negative rules. The unpredictability of either being totally useless or relatively fast was really Orcy. It might not be 40k Orky, but it fit WHFB Orcs and Goblins and I think the randomness was an advertised selling point. It sounds like you picked the wrong army, Ogre Kingdoms were similarly brutish but lacked the lol-random element.

The problem is that people took less Orcs in an Orc army because the randomness was literally crippling while the benefits were nothing and the mitigations for the randomness were just as damaging.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I think grots can compare pretty well, you got da red gobbo, grot tanks of both sizes, kans, foot lads, boomy guns, mekky guns.
Hell, that’s way more units than either of the or(ru)c clans in AOS rn.

Nah, just in named+generic characters goblis had more units in fantasy than the whole grot GW package and is only a contest by taking FW units.
da red gobbo is legends, and makari is a support of Ghaz.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am scratching my head to understand why someone would play a faction that they don't like the lore for (or rather actively hate the lore for).

Less that and more "When you read the lore of a faction and all you can come up with is negative rules screw you"

Orcs and Goblins animosity came with a downside on a 1 and an upside on a 6, you cannot really say that all the writer came up with were negative rules. The unpredictability of either being totally useless or relatively fast was really Orcy. It might not be 40k Orky, but it fit WHFB Orcs and Goblins and I think the randomness was an advertised selling point. It sounds like you picked the wrong army, Ogre Kingdoms were similarly brutish but lacked the lol-random element.

The problem is that people took less Orcs in an Orc army because the randomness was literally crippling while the benefits were nothing and the mitigations for the randomness were just as damaging.

Not only that but animosity was stupid on itself because it was representing something that it was allready there.

"Orcs are fighting people. They lack discipline, order, etc..." ok. Thats why they had low Leadership, and it was reflected in the interactions of their low leadership with all general rules of the game how greenskins were much less organized than dwarfs , elves or humans

And then you pile in another negative rule to double down on the same concepto. Awful, awful rules writting.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I think grots can compare pretty well, you got da red gobbo, grot tanks of both sizes, kans, foot lads, boomy guns, mekky guns.
Hell, that’s way more units than either of the or(ru)c clans in AOS rn.

sorry what?

Gretchin
Red Gobbo (technically, i guess...He's an elite choice that does almost literally nothing)
Mek Gunz
Killa Kanz
Grot Tank
Grot Mega-Tank

What is a...boomy gun? that's not a thing.

Vs Age of Sigmar gobbos:

-loonboss
-spiderboss
-mushroom shaman
-stabbas
-shootas
-gobbapalooza
-fantatics (2x weapon options)
-sneaky snufflers
-squig herds
-mangler squigs
-squig hoppas
-boingrot boundas
-spider riders
-araknarok rig

gobbos in AOS are an actual army, with an actual army book. In 40k you cannot take a legal gobbo army without proxying. Theyre not comparable.

I’m talking about big guns, ye olde classic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I didn’t say they had more than AOS goblins, just that they had more than aos orcs, at least the proper 2.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m talking about big guns, ye olde classic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I didn’t say they had more than AOS goblins, just that they had more than aos orcs, at least the proper 2.

...which do not have rules support, so, not sure why we'd mention them. I admittedly dont know much about AOS orks, but 'savage orruks' seem to have more options than 40k gretchins. And I'll bet that unlike 40k gretchins, I can run a legal army of them that is battleforged!

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m talking about big guns, ye olde classic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I didn’t say they had more than AOS goblins, just that they had more than aos orcs, at least the proper 2.

...which do not have rules support, so, not sure why we'd mention them. I admittedly dont know much about AOS orks, but 'savage orruks' seem to have more options than 40k gretchins. And I'll bet that unlike 40k gretchins, I can run a legal army of them that is battleforged!

Savage orruks have a cavalry unit, an infantry unit, then big stabbas. And you can do a battleforged grot army, makari is an hq.

 the_scotsman wrote:
This is like telling an Ogre Kingdoms that they can still play an Ogre Army in 40k because Ogryn exist as one single unit in the AM codex.

Oof, you got me right in the Corsairs